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Forum topic poll
What would you like to change mostly, to remains popular the game?
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Topic: Decreasing participants |
349 replies
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Quote ( Miel Soeterbroek @ January 11th 2017,14:17:19 ) Still migrating away from 8 year old ancient monolith-coded monstrocities at work, know the struggle is real :)
At least you can migrate, we still have to support that old stuff at my work :P On platforms that have gone out of support years ago :P
But we started over a year ago already to think about how the new architecture of GPRO could be and how a mobile version could look like. Some prototyping just. But then we concentrated on the new live race viewer and some new features (and some think it would have been better to concentrate on the mobile version instead, I know :P ). But sooner or later we will carry on with it, promised :)
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Here, they have a knack for buying other products (mainly brand names/sites, but they usually all come with some prehistoric platform attached). Zilch tech due diligence, so those generally get dumped right on my lap. Every time i manage to phase one out, another one drops in, each one worse than the other. 15 year old web frameworks work fine, right?
Endless joy.
Anyway, don't let the batch of eager shouters (me included) distract you. Get on with it :P
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Quote ( Luke Frost @ January 11th 2017,11:44:45 ) Mate, they're just ideas brought forward for the developer to look into. The responsibility would always be on them to find a suitable addition to their crew who can build an app, and I'm sure they're not sitting around waiting for a knight in shining armor to come and build something amazing for them right away.
Yes, they are ideas, but it's the same ideas every other day or week. It gets rather bothersome to hear about it all the bloody time, and I'm sure Vlad and Stef have heard them multiple times by now. You are correct in assuming they're not waiting for the knight in shining armor though; only girls with those silly fairy tales in their heads wait for that, when it's the knight in the beat-up armor she really needs, for they're the ones that have fought many battles.
Quote ( Roy Rentes @ January 11th 2017,10:06:04 ) Daniel, i'm here to play a game nothing more.
I have no interest in developing it. Giving a honest response on what i think is needed for the game to grow and getting a "shut up its fine" answer, isn't helpfull.
Other web games like astroempires, etc have growing populations, and this comes down to advertisement and listening to the users and implementing what they want to see (a decent UI).
The poor UI that currently exists in this game is a sucking chest wound, and needs fixing, fast.
I didn't say it was all fine and dandy; I merely expressed my disdain over another person going on about the live race screen. It'll get finished when it gets finished, so be grateful everything is even up and running on such an archaic system. This isn't a game where you pick it up, play for an hour, and you're winning; it's called a management game for a reason. I think nearly all of the mobile games out there cater to this instant gratification that many people want nowadays, which is sort of making racing management games a niche market.
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I have voted other.
Staff and facilities. I never understood how to manage this and the influence on the race result.
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Quote ( Stefan Voggenreither @ January 11th 2017,14:27:01 ) But we started over a year ago already to think about how the new architecture of GPRO could be and how a mobile version could look like. Some prototyping just. But then we concentrated on the new live race viewer and some new features (and some think it would have been better to concentrate on the mobile version instead, I know :P ). But sooner or later we will carry on with it, promised :)
looking forward to it :)
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Quote ( Anna Nagy @ January 9th 2017,06:33:09 ) -some people leave because of the few time for to play, it is not easy to be connected at least twice a week with all that there is to do in real life. The suggestion is to make the possibility to setup the strategy 4 races in advance (so up to 2 weeks in advances)
-sponsors negotiation should be much faster (same as for point system, 3-4 times for season you should be happy to see you get the sponsor)
I agree this two points of view too.
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Quote ( Daniel Mason @ January 11th 2017,15:07:32 ) Quote ( Luke Frost @ January 11th 2017,11:44:45 )
I didn't say it was all fine and dandy; I merely expressed my disdain over another person going on about the live race screen. It'll get finished when it gets finished, so be grateful everything is even up and running on such an archaic system. This isn't a game where you pick it up, play for an hour, and you're winning; it's called a management game for a reason. I think nearly all of the mobile games out there cater to this instant gratification that many people want nowadays, which is sort of making racing management games a niche market.
Niche or not, i think a healthy aim for the game would be to get it populated enough that Rookie is full again.
It's clear that the current setup is not working, so i can assume that we'll agree something needs to change to slow the decline?
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I would like something to be done to Rookie. I think my group is one of the worst groups to be in GPRO right now if you are looking for competition. The same person won every single race, we had 4 car races twice now (once it was 3), and if I just did 11 races I would still be able to promote. I know promotion is great for me and I should be happy, but sometimes it does not feel right. Many people say to me and to others "Get out of Rookie quick, Amateur is where the real deal is". Yes it is true, but once Rookie was also great to be in.
Oh and also, can we change the point system? Back when I started in 2011, old points system was still fresh from 2009 and not everyone was fully adapted with the new point system. Now that it is 2017, I think it is time to change it. And please add a tutorial. A new player cannot be expected to figure everything out if so many random parts of the website are thrown at them right when they first login. It makes so much confusion that they don't bother participating.
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It would be good, if Vlad (or other "boss") would write an answer (for the critique)
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Quote ( Veres Tamás @ January 11th 2017,22:44:18 ) It would be good, if Vlad (or other "boss") would write an answer (for the critique)
Didn't Stefan just comment only a few posts ago?
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Let me give a new players' perspective. Tomorrow will be my first race after a 10 year absence.
Concerning the FOBY discussion: maybe there is not much of a FOBY atmosphere on the forums, but it goes deeper than that. FOBY is all over the rules and guides. I think the Game Rules shouldn't give away too much (they should be kept short anyway), but then you have an FAQ, a Newbie Guide and a Wiki. I was expecting to learn details from reading all of those, but to be honest it wasn't a rewarding read.
For example, I've read all there is to read about sponsors and I still haven't got the faintest idea what "Image" really means because the Rules, FAQ, Guide and Wiki say absolutely nothing about it. That's just one silly example but it's similar for many things (driver skill, setup, wear, risk). Again, the Rules shouldn't give away more than necessary. But someone who takes the effort to read a lot, should be rewarded with some more knowledge.
OK, so you have a Mentor system to pass knowledge to newbies. That's great. My mentor and my team leader have been superb for me over the past few days. But the only reason why I got these contacts is because I opened the Chat and saw a familiar name from another manager game. If you want newbies to use the Mentor system I suggest you put links to the relevant forum all over the Newbie Guide and even on the Main Page for new players. I'm sure it will help keeping more new players in the game for longer than 2-3 races.
Concerning marketing and mobile version: I'm with Miel here, this is not a game that screams for an app. People have apps on their phones for instant fun while taking a dump, not for playing games that take several hours/days/months to grasp. The app market is not your audience. A mobile version of the site: yes of course this is needed.
If you want to attract new kids, I think you need a lot more social media presence. This is a lot of work though so you'd need a Social Media Team just like you have a team of Moderators for the forum. I liked the suggestion to have a public news section on the website where you post some race reports etc. You can then simply post Facebook/Twitter updates linking to each news item. And get advertised on Facebook to draw attention.
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Boost lap and at least 2,5s blocking for me? this is incredibly ridiculous....
"easier overtakes!!"
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Quote ( Veres Tamás @ January 24th 2017,21:04:14 ) easier overtakes Compared to what? "VASEDÉNY"!!! :)
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Advertising is not the problem. A good game grows mostly by word of moutj (or similar activities). I am a online gamefan and willing to invest time. But tbh the game is to complex for starters, the look and feel is just not 2017( lack of an app) and the faxt you need other tooling to play the game.
I do think the game has potential to turn it around. A new visual race engine is not the solution.
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I thought about quiting this game too (and still thinking about it), after playing it for many years, and exactly because they introduced this energy system, if they changed the game back to how it was before I would keep on playing for sure but now I don't know, big chance I might stop
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Quote ( William Hunt @ January 24th 2017,22:47:57 ) I thought about quiting this game too (and still thinking about it), after playing it for many years, and exactly because they introduced this energy system, if they changed the game back to how it was before I would keep on playing for sure but now I don't know, big chance I might stop
Are you the guy who called the Vettel move to Ferrari way before it happened?
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Decreasing participants,This continues...:(
negative record in the first race since the 22.season
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Be dying: amateur as well. Innovations must!
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Quote ( Veres Tamás @ March 24th 2017,18:29:15 ) Decreasing participants,This continues...:(
negative record in the first race since the 22.season
Probably the remaining players are very active. It is not just the quantity of participants but the quality of their participation.
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I think that more advertisement is needed, but the game concept is perfectly OK:
1) Less randoms - this is annoying only longtime playing managers. Removing randoms may be good in others ways, but this will NOT bring new players obviously... :D
2) Clearer energy system - Well... I was one of those who didn't like driver energy in the beginning. However, after several seasons I think it is actually good for the game, just needs to be a bit more realistic and not making you depend so much on the driver (especially when you can't play with young driver; we all know why).
3) Easier overtakes... I don't have opinion here.
These suggestions may be good, but they won't bring new players.
Another way to make a game popular is to make it easier and simple. Example: Not many play Football Manager, but almost everyone has played Top Eleven, just because it is a much more simple game. In Top Eleven you don't need so much thinking/analysing; the game is a lot more 'accessible'/'comprehensible' for the average player. The same goes with GPRO. Many people don't want or don't have the time to analyse all the data we do, to plan everything they will do in the season with an excelsheet. GPRO is not an easy game, but it one of the best games for the good strategists... If we make it easy and simple, many people will play it, but its beauty will be lost!
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Quote ( Konstantin Kiskinov @ March 24th 2017,19:52:06 ) Another way to make a game popular is to make it easier and simple. Example: Not many play Football Manager, but almost everyone has played Top Eleven, just because it is a much more simple game.
There`s no comparison between the two games, Top Eleven can`t hold a finger to Football Manager. Besides, Top Eleven is a browser (or Facebook, or whatever) based game, it`s like saying a lot of people play the F1 games from Codemasters, but don`t play GPRO because F1 is easier. Different game, different target audience in both cases.
I do agree the game could use some improvements, but the basics behind the game should remain unchanged.
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Quote ( Konstantin Kiskinov @ March 24th 2017,19:52:06 ) GPRO is not an easy game, but it one of the best games for the good strategists... If we make it easy and simple, many people will play it, but its beauty will be lost
One of the things I like about the game that you always need to learn. If it would get easier it would lose it's quality and probably all the remaining players.
But it's not only GPRO who is hurting... there are so many games and people play them 10-20h and that is enough... After that needs already new game. New attraction. World is changing and younger players mostly do not stay to long on one game(or other things).
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If you guys refer to the product life cycle, this game is already in its early stages of decline, and there's almost nothing we can do about it.
It's sad, but true :'(
Unless some manager here holds a large PR campaign, then maybe, JUST maybe, the number of active managers would increase.
About those in-game improvements: No, I don't think it will work. How are you supposed to attract other people into this game if they barely know the improved mechanics of the game, let alone the game itself.
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Looking at it for the start of each season for the last 5 seasons, the game is losing around 250 players per season, just under 200 from rookie, 55 a season from Amateur.
This trend continues, 33 seasons (5 years or so) and the game will be dead.
Like any business model, advertising is a necessity to bring in fresh players, I only found this game through a failbook advert.
We all want those little in game tweaks maybe that's why the game is slowly haemorrhaging players, because rightly or wrongly they want change and it isn't happening.
I'm a firm believer of the mobile app, accessible to everyone, whether it's viable, is up to Vlad et al
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Mobile app is a great idea but essentially useless if you have to use Excel to do your data and calculations etc.
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A solid advertising campaign is needed, IMO, but I do think that, if a sustained and ongoing one isn't viable, then waiting until the live race viewer is up and running is important before having a major push.
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Quote ( Mark Wright @ March 25th 2017,21:06:14 ) Mobile app is a great idea but essentially useless if you have to use Excel to do your data and calculations etc.
This is one of those statements I agree and disagree with, I totally understand your point, a lot of this is data mining, and excel etc help, but I have both excel and word on my phone.
you can use the app to pull in new players and at the same time get them to realise it compliments the browser side and the data keeping side of the game.
The mobile market is outstripping the PC market, it makes sense to keep with that very market, look at the photo industry as an example of not keeping up. You have to adapt to survive.
Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ March 25th 2017,21:20:20 ) A solid advertising campaign is needed, IMO, but I do think that, if a sustained and ongoing one isn't viable, then waiting until the live race viewer is up and running is important before having a major push.
A big push on the new race viewer would be a major selling point...
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I have to say, as I'm about to finish an advertising degree... As a small niche website you really need to be paying for Facebook adverts or twitter adverts, or website banners. Then have a strong social media presence, which is hard to do when its unpaid. Because quite simply not many people would have the time to do that.
Paid social media advertising isn't that much compared to what you can bring in from it. I can only assume the finances are a struggle, however its either that or you just accept it's probably already peaked, it doesn't matter that much as long as you can advertise so new player replace outgoing ones. Players will always leave particularly as games have a lifespan, its more about making sure new ones keep coming I'd stop blaming a problem with the game as its a problem with the advertising of the game.
Kevin sort of has a point, but I don't think the new live race viewer is something that will make any difference to make people join. Its more the concept of the game, it just needs to be more publicised. Doubt the live viewer will even keep people playing, its just a cool addition
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I wouldn't exactly say this is a small niche necessarily, Finn, for there are probably 3-4 other browser-based racing management games that I can think of off the top of my head, based on Formula 1 in particular. I don't know if maybe 2 of those sites are really in competition with GPRO, but one already has a live race viewer AND a mobile app (I'm not scouting them, mind). Nevertheless, the point you stressed about advertising is on point; we need to advertise what makes this game a cut above the rest.
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As several others, I vote "other" meaning the FOYB problem.
I believe that somethings of the FOBY "canon" shoud be revealed. Its a very hard game to understand to new players, and the game itself don't give very much to them to understand why the player is doing well or bad. It's a struggle to mentor new players and keeping them playing.
I mean, not just the FOBY thing. But in GPRO mostly game initiation is based in someone telling the newplayers how to play, there isn't enough feedback by the game itself to teach us how we are doing, mostly we know by the results only. (The new feature of sponsors satisfaction was a nice thing in this direction, btw)
I am far from be a bright player, just an very average one, I will give my example but since it is only a example, it couldn't mean the players as a whole (and can show of my dumbness). I just understang why I couldn't keep on Pro last season, my 2nd time there. In the first one I lost my driver in reset, and I thought that was it that the reason of my failure, 3 seasons later I returned to Pro with a very nice driver and failed again, and understand my bad results came from my weak car.
Well, that is just my example. But I think there is a lack of this kind of feedback features on GPRO's gameplay.
Also, since we only race twice in the week, it takes a lot of time to undestading by experience what works well and what don't work. A time that is fatal to new players left the game. Maybe in Rookie could be more races or exists a kind of "friendly" races.
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