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Topic: Solving the competitiveness/promo and relegation argument |
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Edited
I have read a lot of posts regarding the fact there are too many managers in a variety of groups, too many rookie groups, etc, and no single idea seems to solve the argument, so I took from a few those ideas, and simple business concepts (since this is a racing management game) and came up with the following plan…
Just to clarify... I'm calling groups the actual group we race in, and tiers the entirety of rookie, ama, pro, etc, respectively...
1. In all tiers, except Rookie and Elite, reduce the maximum number of managers per group to 30. Reducing the number of managers per group means that you have fewer opportunities to promote unless you deserve it, and it will also be harder to stay, as well.
2. In Rookie, the standard max would be 30, unless more spots are needed, and if it could be done, each additional manager would be added sequentially per group.. so say 10 new managers sign up, one goes into rookie 1, next one into rookie 2, etc, until they hit the last group, and then start over again at rookie 1…
3. In Elite, the max # of managers would remain at 40, this will become clearer later on.
Promotion:
1. cannot promote if you have neg balance.
2. All managers finishing in the top 3 of their group promote, provided they have at least $15MM in rookie, 20 in AMA, 25 in pro, 30 in master at the end of the season, if not, they are subject to the manager efficiency rating (MER) in order to promote. I took the cash figures at random, so don’t hold me to that, just a thought. You can promote with less cash, but the concept is to make it more difficult.
3. Out of the top 3, or if you don’t promote and finish in the top 3 of your group and have a positive cash balance at the end of the season, you are subject to the MER, which pits you against the entire tier, and results in having to compete against more people than just your group, and according to the law of averages this means you would be facing more competition for open spots in the tier above you.
4. Managers promoting due to MER will change each season, which is the goal.
Relegation:
1. If you finish in the red, you get relegated. This number will change every season, which is fine.
2. Any manager that retires is removed from the equation, and put into a retired pool (not rookie) - meaning they no longer take up dead space, and they lose their driver.
3. In Elite, only 12 mangers can relegate each season, negative first, then by MER.
4. Not including the managers that finish in the red, if you finish in the bottom 5% for money at the end of the season of managers across the tier, you get relegated, meaning some groups may have more managers relegating than others, which is fine.
5. After this, of the remaining managers, another 5% relegate due to MER.
6. Due to the fact that 1 and 2 would be fixed #’s, and would change from season to season, this means that the number of managers promoting/relegating based on the percentage of eligible managers for promo or relegation, would also change, so in some seasons more managers promote, and in some fewer managers promote.
The MER would be based on a number of factors, please feel free to add any ideas:
1. Average finishing position for the season for the entire season in your group vs average finishing position of the top 10 managers in each group (based on group ranking) and any missed races count as a 30th (40th for elite, whatever number for rookie) position, regardless of how many managers raced. Eliminates impact of OBP).
2. Average points per race-tier average points per race (based on the number of managers that scored points only for the latter figure - so if 50 managers score points in one season, and 80 in another, this adjusts for competitiveness across the tier).
3. Average gross earnings per race/Average expenses per race as compared to the tier, which measure operational efficiency.
4. Cash at end of season in relation to tier average, after all, cash is king. Now, keep in mind that during the season the MER can change based on cash levels throughout the week, or for simplicity’s sake, maybe it would only be measured after each race.
5. All managers would have a MER.
6. All managers would be ranked based on MER similar to OBR ranking, etc.
7. Must compete in 14 races to have a MER, no MER means no promo, and automatic relegation or retirement.
8. MER would be to 3 decimal points, tie breaker goes to money at end of season, then average finishing position, then average points per race, and lastly points scored.
9. The higher the MER the better the manager.
Other notes:
1. in any group, it is possible that a manager that finishes with positive cash does not promote to the next tier if they fail to promote versus MER.
2. If say 200 managers relegate this season from ama, then only 200 promote, the next season could be more or less, again, depending on retirements, and how many fall prey to the % rules, etc.
Sample calc (I picked random numbers below, and I would say having them to at least 3 decimal points would be fair):
Manager AFP 3.23
Tier AFP for top 10 11.26
Divided tier AFP by Manager AFP = 3.486
The reason for dividing it this way is the lower you average finishing position vs the tier, the more consistent you are interns of results, and it makes calculating the MER easier.
Manager average points per race 5.8
Tier average points per race 6.3 (based on number of managers with points so if 100 managers have points, it’s based on that, which means this number will be lower at the end of the season than at the beginning)
Scoring efficiency = .921
mgr business profitability 5.6
tier business profitability 4.3
business efficiency = 1.302
Cash on hand (or after the last race) $15MM
Average for Tier $8MM
Ratio = 1.875
Add all these numbers together, and you get a MER of 7.584. The higher the MER, the higher the manager rates.
Now I would say that these can each be multiplied against a multiplier to give them each and individual weighting, or importance if you will, of each factor influencing success or failure as time goes on.
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#2 posted Jan 20th 2017, 20:23:55
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can you give us a TL;DR?
;)
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#3 posted Jan 20th 2017, 20:27:58
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Indeed, Stu. No offence Mason, but I doubt many people will read that big block of text :/
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#4 posted Jan 20th 2017, 20:30:15
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I didn't...I just read Stuart's post and that was it.
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#5 posted Jan 20th 2017, 20:30:27
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I didn't. After some reading went down to see the responces and try to understand from these
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#6 posted Jan 20th 2017, 20:31:43
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I know a few who will, but yeah, let them read it and go by responses lol
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TL;DR
He wants to change the entire grouping systems and solve literally 0 problems but make racing more competitive.
He will create something called MER (explained in post below) which does;
You will be promoted only if you finish near the top and have a certain amount of cash in each division (rook, ama, pro, etc)
You will be relegated/reset if you miss more than 3 races.
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#8 posted Jan 20th 2017, 20:36:37
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Sorry for the long diatribe... Shortened it..
Basically, reduce all groups to 30 managers, except Elite, and a flexibility rule for rookie due to certain nuances (new players, managers coming out of retirement, etc).
Change the format for relegation and promotion to increase competitiveness, and create a manager efficiency rating to help make things more competitive and hopefully result in better managers being promoted over lesser managers...
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#9 posted Jan 20th 2017, 20:38:00
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I like the way gpro has its own universe in each group and this idea will kinda remove it and make 'one big universe'.
It's a nice idea but I do like the way the game is
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#10 posted Jan 20th 2017, 20:39:50
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Quote ( Joel Bradley @ January 20th 2017,20:35:43 ) TL;DR
He wants to change the entire grouping systems and solve literally 0 problems.
You will be promoted only if you have a certain amount of cash in each group.
You will be relegated/reset if you miss more than 3 races.
At least he tried though.
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Quote ( Mason Somoza @ January 20th 2017,20:09:59 ) Edited
It's a pity, your first 4 points sounded quite interesting.
Nevertheless, I'm afraid that your general idea is simply too complex.
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#12 posted Jan 20th 2017, 20:41:22
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Quote ( Pedro Freire @ January 20th 2017,20:38:00 ) #9 posted today at 20:38:00 Quote
I like the way gpro has its own universe in each group and this idea will kinda remove it and make 'one big universe'.
It's a nice idea but I do like the way the game is
There would still be a group element to it. This is for those managers that say competition is diluted, to many unfair managers promote, etc...
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I just read that block. Is something about a coeffiecient based on average position per race, averaage points and money. And promo/relegation to be based on this.
Oops. Too late
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#14 posted Jan 20th 2017, 20:45:42
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Quote ( Mason Somoza @ January 20th 2017,20:36:37 ) Sorry for the long diatribe... Shortened it..
Basically, reduce all groups to 30 managers, except Elite, and a flexibility rule for rookie due to certain nuances (new players, managers coming out of retirement, etc).
Change the format for relegation and promotion to increase competitiveness, and create a manager efficiency rating to help make things more competitive and hopefully result in better managers being promoted over lesser managers...
I have a few questions;
1. How is it not competitive? No offense, but you've only gotten to Amateur and from what I hear from everyone is the skill level REALLY ramps up once your hit Pro+.
2. So, how does reducing managers from 40 to 30 mean more competition? It just makes it difficult for someone to actually grab and train a driver, rather than everyone ifghting for the best driver on the market and taking them?
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#15 posted Jan 20th 2017, 20:52:55
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Quote ( Mason Somoza @ January 20th 2017,20:41:22 ) There would still be a group element to it. This is for those managers that say competition is diluted, to many unfair managers promote, etc...
I personally think it's fun to have weaker and stronger groups although some may say it's not fair, but we have to deal with it because life ain't fair too =P
Your concept is good for competition but I do like the luck/random factor of being in different groups and promoting/relegating in a particular moment of time as if with diverse conditions everything would be different.
It'd be more predictable in my opinion and less fun to watch. We won't see people pushing more than they can to promote/retain, for example
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#16 posted Jan 20th 2017, 20:57:24
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Quote ( Joel Bradley @ January 20th 2017,20:45:42 )
I have a few questions;
1. How is it not competitive? No offense, but you've only gotten to Amateur and from what I hear from everyone is the skill level REALLY ramps up once your hit Pro+.
2. So, how does reducing managers from 40 to 30 mean more competition? It just makes it difficult for someone to actually grab and train a driver, rather than everyone ifghting for the best driver on the market and taking them
Competition is related to scarcity. People say amateur don't have enough good managers, which creates problems later on in the game. They want to reduce the number of groups... Ultimately, reducing the number of groups, or number of people per group is the same thing, you create fewer opportunities.
Basically, right now, while there are 40 available slots in many groups, not all are racing. so you often have 5 people on a DNS, another 5 or so that simply don't belong. So why have 40 managers?
As for why, it's an idea. People say that more deserving managers should be promoted, well this is a way to potentially do that. People say the game has stagnated, this will put a wrinkle into it.
You can still train a driver and do ok. Hell I finished mid-pack doing that two seasons in a row. Had it not been for some family issues, I would have continued. And for someone that hasn't cracked amateur yourself, I wouldn't point out that someone else hasn't.
It's all good though.
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#17 posted Jan 20th 2017, 20:58:54
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Quote ( Joel Bradley @ January 20th 2017,20:35:43 ) TL;DR
He wants to change the entire grouping systems and solve literally 0 problems but make racing more competitive.
He will create something called MER (explained in post below) which does;
You will be promoted only if you finish near the top and have a certain amount of cash in each division (rook, ama, pro, etc)
You will be relegated/reset if you miss more than 3 races. Sir, you just won best user award of the forums for the new season :D
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#18 posted Jan 20th 2017, 21:29:07 (last edited Jan 20th 2017, 21:47:38 by Luke Frost)
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Quote ( Florencia Caro @ January 20th 2017,20:27:58 ) Indeed, Stu. No offence Mason, but I doubt many people will read that big block of text :/
It's called being passionate about the game and putting in an effort to do what he feels is adding to it. Nice way to make him feel welcome after he spent so much time typing it. :/
(message meant for everyone, but now I understand the OP was massively edited so I understand it now)
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#19 posted Jan 20th 2017, 22:07:22
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Wait, i'm looking at the short version?
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