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Topic: Show the lap a driver runs out of energy on race analysis |
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People have made a request previously about energy drain being visible on the live race. I really don't think that should be brought in because it would kind of ruin the live race experience a bit where you just don't know at which moment you are going to run out of energy, which certainly has added something to the live race I think.
However, I think it's fair to say that it'd be useful that the race analysis displays the lap your driver ran out of energy if he did. I had several races last season where I was definitely close to the mark, and ran out for definite in at least a couple. Sure, you could say it should be fairly easy to determine where it drops off, but that's not always the case as there's many things that can skew the lap time (blockers etc), especially so if you're in a midfield battle.
So, I'm asking for a show of thumbs that we have some kind of indicator that displays the lap your driver run's out of energy, if he used it all up, in the race analysis. Maybe something as simple as the colourisation of the lap number, or the lap time shown in a yellow colour or something to indicate he ran out of energy on that lap?
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#2 posted Mar 25th 2017, 10:31:43
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There are a few things pertaining Energy simply missing from the Race Analysis, things that can not be checked afterwards anyway at all, that I think should be part of that page.
Energy running out is one. Like Stuart says it's often near impossible if not even actually impossible, to tell at times BUT your crew and driver should be able to spot when it happens and report it. Less attempts at overtaking, suddenly not taking those turns as sharply, and so on, even if it's for various reasons not reflected in the lap times.
Energy spent during Qualifying. Sure one can always make a not of the Energy Before and compare to the After but that's not always possible when in a hurry, or simply forgetting. Forget most other things and we can always go back and check, even obscure things like "what did the driver say on his 3rd practice lap".
So Energy spent during Q1 and Q2 should be shown too, and speaking of Qualifying the Race Analysis should really also keep a record on how much risks were taken on the Q1 and Q2 laps. That one we can not go back and check either unless we save it somewhere. The two also now go hand in hand and can be vital for races further along.
The "extra Energy recovery right after the race" needs to be shown too. Currently there are thousands of managers who have race time on times when they are not able to be on-line for various reasons, like sleeping or work or school, and can not check how much was recovered in the second after the Update after the race is done. Sure, we in the "right" time-zones can do this easily enough, if we remember to check, but that is just what makes it so unfair.
The only thing the Race Analysis shows is Energy after the race is done and without knowing how much was recovered right away it's harder to figure out how fast the recovery rate actually is, considering that it's a "live" thing and not like literally everything else in the game a static thing.
So my thumbs up to Stuarts is set but I'd also like to add in the other two things pertaining Energy to the Race Analysis page.
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#3 posted Mar 27th 2017, 16:40:02
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I think that most people will have gotten a decent handle on things so far, at least those at the pointier ends of the field.
Determining the energy drain during quals is easy enough to do, and those numbers can be used to make educated guesses about the overall energy use during the race. Looking at the race analysis you should be able to tell in most cases on what lap you've run out of energy, or at least within a couple of laps. Even if you can't tell for your specific driver, the odds are good that in a team of 10 people that a fair few people will be able to determine the lap that they ran out. We've already had 3 seasons of Energy, so the data set you'd have to work with is fairly large.
I don't know how many teams have figured out the equations already, but I am confident that many of them are very close. Even down at the Amateur level there isn't a wave of managers suddenly running out of energy before the end of the race a dropping back through the field. That seems to indicate to me that many people have a good handle on energy management already.
Quote ( Jody Parker @ March 25th 2017,10:31:43 ) The only thing the Race Analysis shows is Energy after the race is done and without knowing how much was recovered right away it's harder to figure out how fast the recovery rate actually is, considering that it's a "live" thing and not like literally everything else in the game a static thing.
Are there really that many people who haven't figured out the recovery rates yet? A team of 10 managers should have been able to figure those out in the first season.
So I guess the question is...why change the display and give out more data points? To make things easier? What's wrong with a little challenge?
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#4 posted Mar 27th 2017, 16:50:32
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Quote ( Kevin Mcferrin @ March 27th 2017,16:40:02 ) So I guess the question is...why change the display and give out more data points? To make things easier? What's wrong with a little challenge?
Because it's not "a little challenge", it's impossible unless one can log in at the right time of day to find out, know, what the "post race recovery" rate is. The rate per day is decided depending on that too after all.
Having a post-race recovery of 25 and an overall of 60 would mean a recovery rate of 35 for the whole period, or 12 or so per day.
But a post-race recovery of 5 and total of 60 would be 55 recovery rate, or 18 or so per day.
That part is what I mean, and don't come say "a team will do it" as not everyone is or even wants to be in a team, and should be able to figure things out anyway even if not being able to log in at specific times.
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#5 posted Mar 27th 2017, 17:29:36
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Quote ( Jody Parker @ March 27th 2017,16:50:32 ) That part is what I mean, and don't come say "a team will do it" as not everyone is or even wants to be in a team, and should be able to figure things out anyway even if not being able to log in at specific times.
There are pros and cons to being in a team. One of the pros is the shared data. And a person playing by themselves can absolutely work out the energy recovery rate on their own, once they get enough data points. The benefit that the team provides is that you get those data points faster. If someone is staunch in their desire to not be in a team then they should understand that this will absolutely make things more difficult for them, though not impossible.
Quote ( Jody Parker @ March 27th 2017,16:50:32 ) Because it's not "a little challenge", it's impossible unless one can log in at the right time of day to find out, know, what the "post race recovery" rate is. The rate per day is decided depending on that too after all.
I think you're making things overly complicated.
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Quote ( Kevin Mcferrin @ March 27th 2017,17:29:36 ) I think you're making things overly complicated.
Bit rich coming from someone advocating to keep it complicated :) But anyways...
The suggestion really is simply from the angle that there's a fair amount of "noise" in a lap time, and when you're in a season where you're testing things out and aiming to push the energy to the absolute limit in many races (which I was doing last season in a number of races), it certainly is difficult to pin point the EXACT lap where energy dropped to zero, especially so when running in midfield battles.
It isn't a question of not knowing whereabouts it runs out, or not being able to work out how it does so, as i've already got a very good idea about it just like many others have. Like you said youurself, the data is there to work out "more or less" where you ran out of energy, but it still isn't ideal. What is frustrating is not actually having an absolute reference point. We have that for many things in the game, but not this. I just find it strange really that we don't get that information, when we get information like net timings for laps to show exactly what our pace is without any noise..
So, I'm just wondering why we can't have a feature to tell us when we run out of energy in the race minus all the 'noise'. It's not like it is making things too easy by any stretch, since any data you have you need to know how to use it properly in the first place in order to benefit from it :) What is certain is you can only make an exact calculation for something if you have an exact piece of data and is why we have net times and driver mistake info. So, we're allowed to work out exact calculations on certain driver specifics but not this one. Just seems strange and inconsistent to me :)
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#7 posted Mar 27th 2017, 20:04:44
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ March 27th 2017,17:39:52 ) What is frustrating is not actually having an absolute reference point. We have that for many things in the game, but not this. I just find it strange really that we don't get that information, when we get information like net timings for laps to show exactly what our pace is without any noise..
That makes sense, though I'm still not convinced on the necessity to know exactly which lap you run out on.
Quote ( Stuart Foster @ March 27th 2017,17:39:52 ) when you're in a season where you're testing things out and aiming to push the energy to the absolute limit in many races (which I was doing last season in a number of races), it certainly is difficult to pin point the EXACT lap where energy dropped to zero, especially so when running in midfield battles.
Let's assume for the sake of argument that you're burning 3% energy per lap. 33 laps into the race you would have 1% left. Are you effectively out of energy now, or do you run out sometime during the 34th lap? Or do you complete the 34th lap under full energy and are out by the 35th lap? In either of those cases, even if you were told what lap it was there's going to be some fuzziness in the numbers. Trying to get that ideal calculation might sound like a good thing, but ultimately "more or less" is good enough for 99% of cases.
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#8 posted Mar 27th 2017, 21:30:09
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Stuart; I understand the idea, and perhaps think it has some merit. But I see no tangible benefit to what you are asking; and you've certainly not made a compelling case (for me, personally, there needs to be a compelling case to make a change; otherwise, leave it alone).
If you run out of energy in a race, surely all you need to know is not to run such high risks next time (assuming the same starting energy, obviously). Once you have run some risks (but not enough that you deplete your energy entirely) in a race, you'll get a good feel for how hard you can push next time.
Then, as your driver changes, you'll get relative calculations on tracks where you've already not run out of energy.
Ultimately, driver energy was introduced as a way to limit the risks you run. If it was intended that one of the negatives to pushing too hard was a restricted amount of data, then this suggestion would be a non-starter.
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#9 posted Mar 27th 2017, 21:44:47
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Consistency!
Fuel: yes
Tires: Yes
DE: ??? ----> YES!!!
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#10 posted Mar 27th 2017, 21:59:56
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Quote ( Tibor Szuromi @ March 27th 2017,21:44:47 ) Consistency!
Fuel: yes
Tires: Yes
DE: ??? ----> YES!!!
Flawed argument Tibor; unless, of course, you can pit for new DE?!
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#11 posted Mar 28th 2017, 08:42:45
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Quote ( Mark Pinnick @ March 27th 2017,21:59:56 ) unless, of course, you can pit for new DE?!
The drived felt very tired and stopped for another Red Bull.
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#12 posted Mar 28th 2017, 08:47:48
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Quote ( Mark Pinnick @ March 27th 2017,21:59:56 ) Flawed argument Tibor; unless, of course, you can pit for new DE?! Yes.
No anal.
Live screen.
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#13 posted Mar 28th 2017, 08:51:54
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You can easily find out at which lap the driver has 0% Energy. Just a tip: 0% risk when driver has no energy. There are some things in the game which depends on risk and backwards you can calculate how much risk was used during the whole race. If this varys from the Risk you entered, you know the % of the race the driver had enough energy to push.
Its not that hard to find that out. I think it shouldnt be in the race analysis when you can calculate it easily.
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#14 posted Mar 28th 2017, 12:40:15
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Quote ( Tibor Szuromi @ March 28th 2017,08:47:48 ) No anal
My dad said a similar thing to me when I was 14 and first started dating girls :)
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#15 posted Mar 28th 2017, 12:47:07
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Quote ( Martin Britain @ March 28th 2017,12:40:15 ) My dad said a similar thing to me when I was 14 and first started dating girls :)
or you think they were girls :-)
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#16 posted Mar 28th 2017, 13:01:31
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Quote ( Jeffrey Decoopman @ March 28th 2017,12:47:07 ) Quote ( Martin Britain @ March 28th 2017,12:40:15 )
My dad said a similar thing to me when I was 14 and first started dating girls :)
or you think they were girls :-)
That was only on the visits to Thailand ;)
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#17 posted Mar 28th 2017, 13:13:37
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bad association
improper association :(
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#18 posted Mar 28th 2017, 13:42:46
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Quote ( Torben Fiehler @ March 28th 2017,08:51:54 ) Its not that hard to find that out. I think it shouldnt be in the race analysis when you can calculate it easily.
If it's not hard to find out, why make it confusing at all?
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#19 posted Mar 28th 2017, 13:52:09
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Quote ( Tibor Szuromi @ March 28th 2017,13:13:37 ) bad association
improper association :(
That's what she said =]
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#20 posted Mar 28th 2017, 14:07:21
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Quote ( Max Watson @ March 28th 2017,13:52:09 )
That's what she said :) :) :). Yes. Analysis in brief. :(
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And people wonder about the participation numbers....
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#22 posted Mar 28th 2017, 16:14:16
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Quote ( MG van Rensburg @ March 28th 2017,15:35:03 ) And people wonder about the participation numbers....
What are you saying? Should we encourage anal.?
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Quote ( Mark Pinnick @ March 28th 2017,16:14:16 ) Quote ( MG van Rensburg @ March 28th 2017,15:35:03 )
And people wonder about the participation numbers....
What are you saying? Should we encourage anal.?
Why all these unfair assumptions. Who says it wasn't a typo, an incomplete comment and that he wasn't referencing bleaching?
On a serious note. Wasn't aimed at the humour and fun banter. I personally think its a good thing for numbers.
Game longevity through improved, smoother, less tedious gameplay experience is a measurable benefit to the game considering it lives and dies by it's ability to retain players.
Don't dumb the game down, without a doubt. But we all have to be real about what should be apart of a game experience and what shouldn't. Some kinds of hidden information do nothing but hurt the gameplay and experience. Yes, the diehards enjoy it, and yes, they love the 'perceived' advantage they have from being convinced they have the info by being a better gamer, but we need to be open to the idea that alot of these perceived advantages are not about how we play, but rather unfair limitations placed on the game on other managers who don't have the circumstances we do.
Giving the detail of which lap energy runs out is debatable, but hiding information managers actually have access to just cause they dont note it down themselves when the webpage comes up or are not online when the race reset happens etc, is just shooting this game in the foot. It does nothing to market the game positively.
As for the hiding the information of when run out of energy. Again, in what way does the gameplay experience improve from this? In what way is the manager tested in a relevant aspect to the actual game?
Agreed, don't spoon feed lazy people, but if being competitive requires degrees in applied mathematics or a contact / teammate with such knowledge or access to their work, aren't we losing the plot a bit?
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