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Téma: Being crashd at the start of race |
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Ah I missed that ;)
But I would be thinking about changing driver as he might be jinxed :D
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#32 Elküldve: 2018. január 18. 18:13:49 (módosítva: 2018. január 18. 18:25:59 Martin Irla által)
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I wouldnt change him....if he is jinxed i would call an exsorsist,but not change him...
21 years,98 OA with probably 0 motivation due to his results.That means he has at least 2 seasons more in Ama if he wants to before attempting promotion,and by that time with a good training he will have a very good driver....Obviously i dont know his stats,but in principle they look good if talent and charisma are not super,super high....
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#33 Elküldve: 2018. január 18. 18:31:04
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Last season he end up at 26 with a Rookie driver .... now he´s at 29 i don´t know is stats also., but i guess isn´t necessary ....lol
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#34 Elküldve: 2018. január 18. 18:35:36
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Yeap Nunno....but have you seen his car level??? Not much chance of doing better with that....I would keep him at least till the end of the season and see if i could retain....Maybe there are some other problems,but i dont think its his driver....
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Nuno,
You are in the elite. Do not send someone to change a driver, without knowing his attributes. Low salary. Maybe he's a trainable driver, with good potencial. Maybe not.
Olliver,
Do not change your driver without making sure he is not good. Compare your driver with the drivers of your team.
Eduardo,
If "Maldonado" is 1 position behind you, "mantain position" would be safe.
If "Maldonado" is 4-5 positions behind you, "mantain position" can be dangerous.
The problem is that in Gpro, Maldonado is not fined, does not suffer any punishment. Who is punished, is an "innocent manager" who is close of "Maldonado".
Sometimes Maldonado hits the wall (this is fair). Other times, hit Oliver (or other unlucky manager).
The safe suggestion to avoid start accident is to qualify behind Maldonado :)
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#36 Elküldve: 2018. január 20. 06:01:54
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I don't think Nuno's advice is bad. For one, even if the driver is actually trainable, must drivers in Amateur OA range are. But also because average almost 30th in the qualys without being 1-stopping and with only 31 active managers is terrible even with a L3 car. That only shows the setup isn't properly fixed or, most likely, the driver is extremely bad.
No matter how bright of a future a driver has, it's a bad idea to keep him it you'll need to devote a lot of time and resources to develop him. In this case I don't even think the low salary is a plus. With the high competition for drivers in amateur, a cheap driver generally means he was taken down from Pro or, as in this case, he is most likely so terrible nobody wanted him, especially because he was hired at the far from ideal fierce R1 market. A bad driver for free is way worse than a decent driver for high salary hands down.
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#37 Elküldve: 2018. január 20. 06:13:19
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Lets stop guessing about driver stats.
If Oliver wants more detail he can PM each and every one of us the actual stats and I am sure we would all willingly assist.
That hasn't happened at my end so let it be.
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#38 Elküldve: 2018. január 20. 20:05:59
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ January 17th 2018,19:51:18 ) However, I noticed there is a guy who is already at 3 start incidents in the same period and 26 in 418 races.
4th one at R15.
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#39 Elküldve: 2018. július 25. 20:12:04
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Hello again,
after participating in more and more races, I would like to share my data on this topic. Maybe its helpful for others, maybe not :-)
To calculate the risk, I used a simple definition:
Avoid trouble - 1 point
Maintain his position - 2 points
Overtake where possible - 3 points
Force his way to the front - 4 points
Results
Season - Accumulated risks - start accidents
60 / 44 / 0
61 / 51 / 0
62 / 33 / 4
63 / 34 / 1
64 / 36 / 0
65 / 31 / 0 (Season incomplete)
In season 62, 3 out of 4 crashes were caused by the same manager. So I collected the data for this manager beginning with season 63. After season 64, this manager was relegated so I stopped collecting data for him.
Season - start accidents
63 / 5
64 / 4
Finally, thx to all of you for sharing their thoughts.
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#40 Elküldve: 2018. július 25. 20:54:13
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While it's vague enough to avoid the "exact data" rule, it's vague enough to be pretty useless. Maintain position every race and a mix of Avoid Trouble and Force to get the same "accumulated risk" would expect to show a different amount of Start Accidents, over a suitable sample size.
Also, how statistically valid your conclusions could be with limited sample sizes and lack of other data may be an issue. I'm not sure if you've used your data only or more.
Note that I'm not asking for the exact data (because I'd probably need to delete it, as per the rules)
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#41 Elküldve: 2018. július 25. 21:22:27
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Oliver you only look at your own risk, but what about the risk of all the other drivers?
So even if your risk is low you can still be caught by somebody with high risk, likewise if everybody is avoiding trouble you could probably get away with Force your way to the front, were as if everybody is on that you wont get away with it as much.
Never mind that I would be surprised if some driver characteristics don´t play a role here too.
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#42 Elküldve: 2018. július 25. 22:07:22
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Thanks for the data, Oliver. Whereas it isn't detailed enough to be deleted, it keeps suggesting what was previously said in this thread.
Start crashes having a shared responsibility is technically true, but in practical terms it isn't that straightforward. In many cases, depending on the risks of people around you, reducing the start crash odds to reasonable levels means basically opening the door for losing 3-4 places at the start each single race.
This isn't supported only by your data, which is already helpful, but I'd like to share my experience there as well. In my case, almost 90% of my start race incidents (DNF and non DNF combined) are confined within 2 combined brackets that add less than 10% of my full history (early S47 and a ~35 races span in the late S50s or early S60s), and there is the same factor there: according to the in-game race commentaries, there was usually involved another manager with high start crashes per race record. In both cases I had to resort to go minimal risks in order to prevent further damage, but that was largely damaging as well, because it meant surrendering many places at the start in order to prevent the issue.
Start race mechanisms are an interesting meta game due to the combination of CT, risks, return of investment (which varies depending on many circumstances such as grid position) and potential losses. However, that meta game becomes unbalanced when people are facing managers who won't care about their game state. Theoretically speaking, managers with big resources can push harder at the start, because they have the wallet to sustain the potential damages, whereas managers in more precarious conditions won't have any option but to leave them pass, so this very simple example, which won't analyze further factors, already shows the inherent issue. This could be attenuated by reducing the impact of start risks on race starts to more realistic levels (6-8 places gained at the start looks quite high to me) or by implementing some kind of responsibility penalty/fee based on who was more at fault in a 2-way start crash.
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#43 Elküldve: 2018. július 26. 06:39:52
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ July 25th 2018,20:54:13 ) ... Maintain position every race and a mix of Avoid Trouble and Force to get the same "accumulated risk" would expect to show a different amount of Start Accidents, over a suitable sample size.
You are fully correct regarding the math. I was using the setting 'Maintain his position' in about 66% of the races and 'Overtake where possible' in about 33%.
[Quote]Also, how statistically valid your conclusions could be with limited sample sizes and lack of other data may be an issue.[/Quote]
I fully agree.
[Quote]
I'm not sure if you've used your data only or more.[/Quote]
I used my personal data only. Getting data from others on start crashes seems to be diffcult. My impression is that there are 2 reasons (among many others) for recording data on start crashes:
- You experience a lot of start crashes.
- You get the feeling that you are not responsible for the crashes.
Fortunately for GPRO, this group of managers seems to be rather small.
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#44 Elküldve: 2018. július 26. 06:57:24
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Quote ( Gordon Douglas @ July 25th 2018,21:22:27 ) Oliver you only look at your own risk, but what about the risk of all the other drivers?
So even if your risk is low you can still be caught by somebody with high risk, likewise if everybody is avoiding trouble you could probably get away with Force your way to the front, were as if everybody is on that you wont get away with it as much.
Never mind that I would be surprised if some driver characteristics don´t play a role here too.
You are naming 2 valid reasons that may relate to start crashes:
A. The risk of all the other drivers
That info is only avaiable to GPRO staff. But I have indirect data on it, how many positions a manager gained or lost at the start. In respect to the board rules (no exact data) i will send it only to managers who request it by PM.
B. Driver characteristics
I have no data on that, escpecially regarding the stats of other drivers than mine.
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#45 Elküldve: 2018. július 26. 07:19:14
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ July 25th 2018,22:07:22 ) ...Start race mechanisms are an interesting meta game due to the combination of CT, risks, return of investment (which varies depending on many circumstances such as grid position) and potential losses. However, that meta game becomes unbalanced when people are facing managers who won't care about their game state...
I would like to carry on that idea. The manager that crashed into me was playing GPRO for years. But instead of achieving anything (finances, promotion, etc.) he was just going Kamikaze at the start of every race. So at the end of season 62 I had the strong impression that this manager was playing the game for the sole reason of wrecking the game for others.
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