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Temë: New Rookie: Second class citizens |
54 përgjigje
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#31 Postuar 28 Dhjetor 2009, 00:23:12
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Quote ( Laila Britāle @ December 28th 2009,00:22:20 )
I suggest to give 5m bonus to everyone who didnt missed a race since registered.
Dang I missed 2 races in my 2nd season =(
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#32 Postuar 28 Dhjetor 2009, 00:24:37
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I promoted fairly easily without the extra 5 million, beating all four amateurs who relegated into my group and more rookies who had the extra money advantage
5 million isn't a whole lot of cash if you know how to spend your money correctly, and know what makes a good driver.
It seems unfair on the face of it, but there is alot of people in the lower levels that have absolutely no idea how to play the game - so beating them and grabbing a top 4 promotion spot, is not as difficult as it seems
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#33 Postuar 28 Dhjetor 2009, 00:32:55
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Quote ( Laila Britāle @ December 28th 2009,00:22:20 )
I suggest to give 5m bonus to everyone who didnt missed a race since registered.
I could buy that....the extra $5m to everyone who joined last season who didn't miss a race since registration, on top of the usual $5m bonus strikes me as being completely fair, in keeping with the spirit of the bonus and would alleviate the OP's concerns.
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Alex:
You can promote even if you didn't race all season, believe me, I joined late one race and promoted easily, even with relegated amateurs in y group.
Then I faced the real life in Amateur and had a hard first season learning about what really the game is, I was able to maintain in the Amateur mostly because I changed my strategy and pushed in the end. (Yes I was one of those despicable last races pusher).
You started in the middle of one season, use that expertise as a base to understand the game. Don´t worry about the extra 5 mil, begin looking at your strategy and work from here up. Yes the extra 5 million help, but in spit od how much money you have you can always continue if you have a good strategy.
Sorry the 5 mil to all managers that race all races after registering sounds great thus you don't need to complete the season but race in all your races, of course it should be proportional to the amount of races (5 for 17, 4.7 for 16, etc)
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#35 Postuar 28 Dhjetor 2009, 02:15:40
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Alternatively we could just raise the certification reward to 5m to make it equal to the 17 race bonus, thereby allowing everyone the opportunity to start on the same footing, as long as they are perfectly capable of reading rules, faq and searching the forums.
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I noticed that the OP was in my own group, and missed races. I think it's easier to promote if you run every race :) You also had a chance to keep your driver if you planned well. I would think with that advantage you could make a nice run this season even without the 5 mil bonus. Good luck
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#37 Postuar 28 Dhjetor 2009, 03:58:11
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Quote ( Alex Holland @ December 27th 2009,23:18:24 )
Stepping back we can see that where the $5M attracts managers to finish the season, (...)
it doesnt attracts managers to finish the season, it attracts managers to compete in every single race of the season.
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#38 Postuar 28 Dhjetor 2009, 04:10:23
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As much as I understand where you are coming from, the fact is the majority of rookies you verse either don't race, or are joining the game for the first time.
It is extremely easy to both make money and promote even when starting from what would look like a disadvantage.
If a manager was truly worth his promotion he will make it through in rookie, it's less skill based and more common sense.
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I did not find it "easy" to promote. If I had known in my first season though, what I know now, I had a good shot I think.
In my second season, my group was pretty tough, and no amount of correct strategies, and risks, and spending would likely have gotten me to promotion with the driver I had.
Thankfully, the driver worked much better this season, and I finally promoted.
I don't see a good way to fix the problem of relegating drivers competing with new players. The new players will just have to learn the game like I did.
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#40 Postuar 28 Dhjetor 2009, 04:48:29
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Quote ( Michael Bauers @ December 28th 2009,04:18:24 )
ote
I did not find it "easy" to promote. If I had known in my first season though, what I know now, I had a good shot I
You learn much without noticing, heck do you think I'm a good manager? With some small preparation look how I obliterated my group while banking money.
Rookie is far easier than I thought last time I was there, once you're out its a different game and you learn so much...
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#41 Postuar 28 Dhjetor 2009, 05:02:55 (Së fundi edituar 28 Dhjetor 2009, 05:07:49 nga David Cox)
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Alex the problem is even bigger than you think. What a sharp veteran rookie driver can do is plan ahead very early for the coming season. I made my preparations for this season about week 10 of last.
Mid season is a time you can pick and choose an ideal driver to take you for at least a couple of seasons or longer. At this time I picked a crappy 19 year old, 71 rated driver. The big bonus in this I was able to sign him for 310,000. Over the last 7 races I trained him to a rating of 84. So now Im going into this rookie season with a customized driver and 310,000 dollar salary.
If you figure the average driver has a starting salary of 1 million, Im going to save 10 million by the end of the season. Ill also have a driver worth keeping and extending for a long, long time.
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#42 Postuar 28 Dhjetor 2009, 05:58:37
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My 1st "auto-driver" was i think 82 or so. I then signed an OA 69 driver.
See something?
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#43 Postuar 28 Dhjetor 2009, 07:20:09
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I don't agree with quite a few things you say Alex.
Quote ( Alex Holland @ December 27th 2009,23:18:24 )
I already know of some managers who are not coming back for the next season for these reasons and because of irregularities in bidding for drivers: Managers who are horribly in the hole can bid and sign the top end drivers with no penalty because the money is reset. In fact those same drivers who signed a driver at the end of the season may actually come back with a bonus of $5M if they finished the season out. The "broke" managers can spend as much as they want for the salary and particularly the signing bonus because there is absolutely no penalty to do so.
Ok, this is not completely correct. If you are in debt and in rookie, you cannot bid for drivers with OA more than 70. I know that OA is not everything, but there clearly are restrictions and the choice of drivers gets reduced.
Secondly, while they can give as much salary as they want to the driver; that is hardly an advantage, and certainly not advisable.Quote ( Alex Holland @ December 27th 2009,23:18:24 )
Stepping back we can see that where the $5M attracts managers to finish the season, at the same time this bonus discourages new managers from coming into the game knowing there are just too many advantages to the existing managers. Yes, there will always be new people signing up who don't really care about the rules. They just want to play the game and see what it's like. However rules like these may chase them away from finishing the season or coming back once they understand the disadvantage they are at.
This game is all about long term planning. This gives an important lesson right in rookie it self; it pays in this game to plan for the next season.
Quote ( Alex Holland @ December 27th 2009,23:18:24 )
To put it in F1 terms, I will be starting with one of the last pole positions because of my understanding of the game. I will have an inferior driver in my car and at the same time, I will likely have an inferior car because of the differences in money too. While it may be acceptable to keep the rookies in the rookie ranks for at least one season, the rules should not be slanted to effectively guarantee this. The rare manager may promote if they get lucky enough to fall into a group filled with mediocre or poor drivers. I don't need to hear about the manager who came into the game and through great effort and skill was promoted in one season. Let's face it. If you were able to do it, then the competition from returning managers (who had these advantages) must have been poor and you really did'nt overcome any skilled players.
The point of the rookie group is for managers to learn the basics of the game. The real game starts from amateur onwards. While you may feel new rookies are disadvantaged, I don't see that as a determinant in fulfilling the aim of the rookie group.
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#44 Postuar 29 Dhjetor 2009, 15:47:27
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Quote ( Alex Holland @ December 27th 2009,23:18:24 )
I'm sure that this may have been talked about before and I am equally sure that some will believe this is just a $itch session for me. What I am really trying to get at is that when a new season starts, all drivers should be starting on an equal footing.
Alex.
In the Next season 19, you will have all the advantaje you mention in your post.
We all pass for the same situation at registering in GPRO and play for the first time.
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#45 Postuar 29 Dhjetor 2009, 16:43:44
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Hi there! I don't know why the new players find to be unfair that some players get 5 mil bonus and start with 35mil and they start only with 30. Those 5mil are a bonus for participating in all races in the previous season. The reset should not affect that. And besides that let's be honest. A new rookie will have the same performance even if he had 50mil. I started in the last race of season 13. After season 14 I promoted by "accident" in amateurs because I was in the 14th place. Afters 2 seasons there I relegated because I did not had the money or the knowledge to play at that level. The last season I was in rookie. In my rookie group I saw a lot of managers spending almost all their money after 1-2 races. But their cars remained al level 1 with small improvements. And of course they didn't get some fantastic results. I think that they should try to learn the game instead of complaining. They must realize that their 1st season is for learning. After playing a full season they will also get that 5mil bonus.
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I cant believe that the moderators are letting this pointless thread continue. Lets all slag the game shall we?
If there were no rules there would be anarchy.
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#47 Postuar 29 Dhjetor 2009, 16:59:26
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Quote ( Misty Schaeffer @ December 29th 2009,16:51:16 )
I cant believe that the moderators are letting this pointless thread continue. Lets all slag the game shall we?
What rules is this thread breaking?
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#48 Postuar 30 Dhjetor 2009, 06:44:31
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Thank you to all the people that put out meaningful contributions to this post. I don't mind when people agree or disagree with my posts. To those that only fill up space complaining about the post, why to you waste both your time and mine by replying with a trash post. If you don't like it, just move on to where you can put up meaningful information.
I can appreciate that many of you feel that this is part of going through the rookie system and that life isn't necessarily fair. I know far better than most that life isn't fair, but in a game where we can make it fair, why don't we? After reading all the posts, I still have not seen any conclusive argument why returning rookies are given $5M extra other than to encourage them to race all the races. Many of the posters argued that the extra money was not relevant which only confuses the issue as to why a losing season is rewarded by giving them an extra $5M.
To answer a few of the posts:
Mitchell: Understood,
Jed: I will check into what holiday mode means/does
Chris: Thanks, did'nt know about it. To a few others who will chime in....6 races, I have a life, I have'nt read everything yet.
Sion: Getting 12 wins all depends on the strength of the managers in a person groups. Certainly some groups may have weak managers while others may be much better competition.
Jamie: Normally I would ignore you, but, I was trying a strategy that was given to me by another person who meant well. Because it was after the last race of the season I was not able to complete it. Leaving the team was necessary to try it.
Michael: Thanks for the posts. Yes I was in your group and watched some of what you did. I have only made 6 races so my skills are still not great. I started in race 9, missed 2 races for medical reasons and then finished 5 more. I raced the last race, even though there was a risk of losing my driver (increased OA; tried to make him crash out..risk 100's...pit a dozen times, etc. He still finished well). I believed it in the spirit if the game to race rather than sit out. What real driver sits out a race.... There should almost be a penalty for doing so, but that's another topic. There are those people who get a knack for the game and will promote through their respective fields fairly easy. There will also be those managers who just hit a tough field and no amount of skill will get them through. I checked on some of the higher ranking rookies and noted that many had raced all the way up into the elite leagues. One, previous elite league manager, even bragged that he had dropped down and stays in the rookie league, to see if he can beat his points from the previous season. Certainly most groups will be roughly the same, but as you said, just because you did'nt promote in your second season did'nt mean you were not a good player. There are going to be tougher and easier groups out there and I hope I just hit an average one. If I do, I should be fine.
Laila: That's pretty much my point. If everything is to be reset, the people who have had a full season to play should'nt care about the extra $5M. I won't complain at the end of this season if they take it away. The question is why does it have to be there in the first place.
Keri: I don't know if the $5M will or will not make a difference in the end. Players like yourself probably know better. Now that I am on a young team I am an extra $3M in the hole so it's $35M to $27M. Starting to be a spread but hopefully money well spent. I don't consider myself knowledegable having only run 6 races. Should have only run 5 races and I would have kept my driver. Which after I have to bid for one, puts me even deeper in the money poo...lol Learn from my mistakes..finishing the season is not necessarily good..
Mark: I'm not suggesting that those who totally screw up start from their old position. Why would a manager who totally screwed it up be rewarded with $5M though just because he ran 17 races?
Eduardo: Thanks. Unfortunately running the 17th race was a mistake as above....and I did everything I could to make him crash and not gain more OA points. I'm sure I will learn ways to keep my driver from gaining too much OA towards the end of the season.
Jono: Agreed. Point understood on the reading...
Hamizan: I have to disagree. As stated above, there are good reasons NOT to race all the races. If the $5M were not there, a percentage of managers may not finish the season once the season was out of reach. If it were just about "competing" on a level playing field, there would be no need for the $5M to be there.
David: Thanks for the post. I think I learned about keeping a driver about one race too late. Depending on how I do and how tough my group is, I will likely use this strategy if it looks like promotion is not likely.
Stuart: Yah, I know there can be good or bad drivers at any particular level as some attributes are more important than others. I think I have singled out the important ones.
Chinmay: I can understand what you are saying and agree with most of what you had said. However that doesn't explain why the need to give $5M to returning rookies. They already have the advantage of a season or more of playing so why do they need a bonus of $5M. There should not be any need for that. As to the bidding system. I still have not found the rule where you cannot bid on a driver over a certain OA if you are in debt. When the bidding went through I naturally checked on what they finally went for, and to whom. I remember that at least two of the managers were seriously in the hole. One to the tune of -$15M and the other -$25M. That's part of why I was so frustrated. I guess there is a slim chance that after the bidding system the managers did something to run their money into the tank, but they must have acted very fast as I checked it soon after the closing period. I tried to run myself into the hole afterwards, as there was a strategy associated with that as I tried to keep my existing driver.
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#49 Postuar 30 Dhjetor 2009, 06:47:55
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Quote ( Alex Holland @ December 30th 2009,06:44:31 )
What real driver sits out a race.... There should almost be a penalty for doing so, but that's another topic.
You lose the 5M bonus you get for doing all 17 races ;)
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Quote ( Alex Holland @ December 30th 2009,06:44:31 )
Chinmay: I can understand what you are saying and agree with most of what you had said. However that doesn't explain why the need to give $5M to returning rookies. They already have the advantage of a season or more of playing so why do they need a bonus of $5M.
The amount of managers who race in rookie is low as it is. The 5 million is an incentive for rookies who are out of contention for promotion to continue racing.
Edit: And, remove that bonus, and you'll get more complains about how every division except rookie gets that bonus and how the game is skewed in favour of higher divisions.
Quote ( Alex Holland @ December 30th 2009,06:44:31 )
As to the bidding system. I still have not found the rule where you cannot bid on a driver over a certain OA if you are in debt.
/GPRORules.asp
5.5. Negative balance
There are a few drawbacks to going into negative balance. You will not be able to:
• buy new parts for your car
• train your driver
• make any testing
• train your staff
• upgrade your facilities
• extend your driver's contract
• make offers to good drivers depending on the class you are racing in:
• if you are in the Elite group you won't be able to offer contracts to drivers with overall higher than 110
• if you are in a Master group you won't be able to offer contracts to drivers with overall higher than 100
• if you are in a Pro group you won't be able to offer contracts to drivers with overall higher than 90
• if you are in an Amateur group you won't be able to offer contracts to drivers with overall higher than 80
• if you are in a Rookie group you won't be able to offer contracts to drivers with overall higher than 70
• make offers to technical directors
• offer bonuses to drivers
Besides, if your balance is less than $-15.000.000:
• Your technical director (if you have one) will leave your team
• Your driver and staff motivation will drop to 0
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#51 Postuar 30 Dhjetor 2009, 07:07:03 (Së fundi edituar 30 Dhjetor 2009, 07:07:39 nga Sion Francis)
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Quote ( Alex Holland @ December 30th 2009,06:44:31 )
Sion: Getting ..wins all depends on the strength of the managers in a person groups. Certainly some groups may have weak managers while others may be much better competition
If by better competition you mean there's a ~20/250 chance that there will be one decent manager in there, yeah probably.
Sincerely, you can promote from any (and I do mean any) rookie group just by getting a decent driver, managing your money and risks to a reasonable level and having some ounce of an idea about race strategy...that is a maximum of a few hours reading around the forums combined with an application of some common sense. That's it....that's all you need, in any group...sure, in a few groups there may be 1 or 2 more managers who have a clue, but the reality is there are very very few rookie groups where the 4 people promoting have seasons of a standard which justify their promotion to the higher leagues.
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#52 Postuar 31 Dhjetor 2009, 15:23:08
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The purpose of the $5million bonus is to keep people in the game. If people saw zero hope for the current year they're tempted to quit & wait for next season. Then they typically wouldn't return. As such the bonus as it stands makes 100% sense as it keeps people in the game.
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#53 Postuar 31 Dhjetor 2009, 15:26:29
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Quote ( Laila Britāle @ December 28th 2009,00:22:20 )
I suggest to give 5m bonus to everyone who didnt missed a race since registered.
One vote to Laila!!
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#54 Postuar 31 Dhjetor 2009, 15:33:01
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Quote ( Sion Francis @ December 30th 2009,07:07:03 )
Sincerely, you can promote from any (and I do mean any) rookie group just by getting a decent driver, managing your money and risks to a reasonable level and having some ounce of an idea about race strategy...that is a maximum of a few hours reading around the forums combined with an application of some common sense. That's it....that's all you need, in any group...sure, in a few groups there may be 1 or 2 more managers who have a clue, but the reality is there are very very few rookie groups where the 4 people promoting have seasons of a standard which justify their promotion to the higher leagues.
Do Not listen to sion if you do not want to promote only listen to him if you seriously want to leave rookie and advance in this game
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#55 Postuar 31 Dhjetor 2009, 15:52:03
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The point is that a driver, or a new team entering the real world of formula one or some sort of racing will be at a disadvantage to those already in it, so its actually realistic. If someone enjoys the game enough they will come back for another season.
If you want the extra bonus, then take part in all the races yourself and earn it.
I agree about the signing up of drivers, its too easy at the end of the season to get a good driver in rookie and not worry about money, but thats just the game, so if you cant beat them, join them.
As for no chance of promotion, i joined in with 5 races left of a season, came 5th, then got promoted second season, without cheating to get a driver, just play the game and pick up tactics.
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