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Temë: Elite group |
38914 përgjigje
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Fact is that importance of driver is way too large in this game. Changing importance of some attributes will not change anything in this very important area. Because people working with drivers and paying attention to this work will immediately notice the change and react on it...
Scoring elite points with lvl 4 engine...
Edit..We have 15000 posts.
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Quote ( Laila Britāle @ August 20th 2011,00:50:55 )
Edit..We have 15000 posts.
NOW!!!
Edit: Sorry for taking your glory.
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Quote ( Laila Britāle @ August 20th 2011,00:50:55 )
Scoring elite points with lvl 4 engine...
Maybe the car suits the track characteristics:)
In fact...or i dont understand nothing about that....or the influence of it should be higher.
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Quote ( Laila Britāle @ August 20th 2011,00:50:55 )
Scoring elite points with lvl 4 engine...
I bet you can't do it with lvl 3 engine.
Prove me wrong next season:)
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Quote ( Toygun Senler  @ August 20th 2011,00:57:54 ) I bet you can't do it with lvl 3 engine.
It's crazy. Some people can't do that with lvl 6 or 7 :S
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Quote ( Toygun Senler @ August 20th 2011,00:57:54 ) I bet you can't do it with lvl 3 engine.
Prove me wrong next season:)
Probably I really can't. Just because lvl 3 engine must be new to last our risk :) But who will buy new lvl 3 engine? :)
But I believe that next season i can prove something else :)
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Quote ( Justinas Smyšliajevas @ August 20th 2011,00:43:33 )
But did you think about those who were behind you when you were scoring championships? maybe they needed easier motivation gain system, easier car lvl gaining system, maybe it was not enough finances to train that high stamina like you had? were you unhappy
You completely lost the line of discussion.
Driver experience became by far the most important attribute after S18 change (bug fix), and that made the game very unbalanced, because Its impossible to catch drivers with higher experience. All other attributes became secondary and with importance very reduced (Check Nico Zou's driver!).
Quote ( Justinas Smyšliajevas @ August 20th 2011,00:43:33 )
I also agree that balance is important but such major changes do have critical effect on many managers.
Like the change that made me lose all my advantage and worse, made me very weak from night to day? The same change that made Jari and Heidi retire... Fair?
Quote ( Justinas Smyšliajevas @ August 20th 2011,00:43:33 )
In race my pace is better than yours. But how much exactly? usually like 0,3sec depending on car that day.
Compare our drivers! You will see why is not reasonable this 0.3s difference.
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Quote ( Leandro Sereno @ August 20th 2011,04:15:19 )
You completely lost the line of discussion.
Driver experience became by far the most important attribute after S18 change (bug fix), and that made the game very unbalanced, because Its impossible to catch drivers with higher experience. All other attributes became secondary and with importance very reduced (Check Nico Zou's driver!).
Leandro,
I can accept that driver exp bug fix was unfair to people who had a driver at the time of the fix because they basically got screwed in the short term.
But the bug fix has been existing since season 19 Race 6. It's been 7 seasons since then and there have been plenty of opportunities to change drivers in that time. How can you say bug fix effects are still unfair? Drivers with high experience benefit everyone who have them. The people with high exp drivers have them because they signed them!
If you suddenly change the experience effect now (like it was done in S19) then once again you are screwing over people, this time the people who have signed a high exp driver (which they did because signing these drivers was beneficial)
You want battles to be decided by manager abilities/planning and not by rule changes. You can argue that driver exp has a significant bearing on the title, but these drivers have been signed by the managers, so it is ultimately a managerial decision. If you change it, then instead of manager's choice, it will be rule changes that will have significant bearing on the title (at least for next 1-2 seasons). How can this possibly be good?
ed: What I am trying to say is, that two wrongs does not make a right. Fixing exp bug like they did was horrible way to do it. Such changes to game engine shouldn't be implemented again in a game like this which relies on long term planning, even to fix bugs or imbalances.
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About the currently driver experience system...
I think the experience of a driver could not be so important.
Barrichello, Schumacher and Trulli have experience, and are surpassed by less experienced drivers in their teams.
About this game....
I can not see any advantage for the administrators to manipulate the results.
Accidents also happen in real races.
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Quote ( Zdenek Hladik @ August 19th 2011,21:21:52 ) For me, my driver retirement nor this start accident were not randoms.
While the start accident was your own fault, the driver retirement is indeed deliberate action taken against you, as the rules say:
As drivers age they will start losing some of their abilities after every race at the age of 35. The older they get the faster they will lose skills. At the start of every season drivers with many races behind their back and drivers older than 38 years will make a decision if they will retire at the end of the season. Their decision to retire at the end of the season will be shown on their profile.
So if the Admins have nothing to gain from such action, then why did they do that? :)
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Quote ( Jan Zaluski @ August 20th 2011,06:52:41 )
So if the Admins have nothing to gain from such action, then why did they do that? :)
Is Kuwashima first ever driver retiring before age 38? I recall Justinas was fooled twice already....
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Quote ( Sebastian Dietrich @ August 20th 2011,04:53:21 )
About the currently driver experience system...
I think the experience of a driver could not be so important.
Barrichello, Schumacher and Trulli have experience, and are surpassed by less experienced drivers in their teams.
well... in your real life comparison, performance in F1 is like, car = 90%, driver = 10%
in gpro it's quite opposite,
The balance if off.... Specially considering that the car is the most expensive part of the package
Quote ( Laila Britāle @ August 20th 2011,00:50:55 )
Fact is that importance of driver is way too large in this game. Changing importance of some attributes will not change anything in this very important area. Because people working with drivers and paying attention to this work will immediately notice the change and react on it...
Scoring elite points with lvl 4 engine...
You might be onto something there...
I'm wondering if the "main multipliers" which handle the effectiveness to performance of different parts of the "package" should be tweaked a bit...
lowering the importance of the driver and increasing the benefits of a good car.
not just a single driver attribute tweak, but instead the main "multipliers" which handles the whole, which would reduce the effects of all driver attributes to pace throughout all the groups
at first glance it might seem pointless (since it would reduce for all), but the point is that it would do slight "leveling out", and furthermore it would make possible to compensate certain things with a higher level car.
after all that let's state this: I'm not talking about any major change, just a small tweak in the balance between car/driver effect in performance. The effectiveness of tyres seem to be quite well balanced....
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Quote ( Jan Zaluski @ August 20th 2011,06:52:41 )
At the start of every season drivers with many races behind their back and
If you read this part again, and not only part of the text that you marked, then you will understand...
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Quote ( Mikko Heikkinen @ August 20th 2011,07:17:35 )
well... in your real life comparison, performance in F1 is like, car = 90%, driver = 10%
I agree with you, 90% the performance in F1 is car, so I compared the performance of experienced drivers with their teammates. They have the same car.
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Quote ( Laila Britāle @ August 20th 2011,07:14:13 )
Is Kuwashima first ever driver retiring before age 38? I recall Justinas was fooled twice already....
Surely not, but I am pretty sure he is the first one ever to retire before starting loosing skills, ie. before being 35 years old. Someone correct me if that happened earlier already.
Quote ( Sebastian Dietrich @ August 20th 2011,07:19:03 )
If you read this part again, and not only part of the text that you marked, then you will understand...
And if you notice the logical AND in that sentence, and have played the game for as long as I have to see what has and has not happened during those years, then you will understand...
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Quote ( Jan Zaluski @ August 20th 2011,07:24:40 )
And if you notice the logical AND in that sentence, and have played the game for as long as I have to see what has and has not happened during those years, then you will understand...
You need to look in the dictionary the difference between the words "and" and "or."...
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Quote ( Jan Zaluski @ August 20th 2011,07:24:40 )
Surely not, but I am pretty sure he is the first one ever to retire before starting loosing skills, ie. before being 35 years old. Someone correct me if that happened earlier already.
It happened before and not once.
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Quote ( Jan Zaluski @ August 20th 2011,06:52:41 )
At the start of every season drivers with many races behind their back and
Quote ( Sebastian Dietrich @ August 20th 2011,07:19:03 )
If you read this part again, and not only part of the text that you marked, then you will understand...
Justinas' driver Number of GPs: 247
Zdenek's driver Number of GPs: 234
Which one is retiring ? The one with less races...
just stating a fact.
I'm not suggesting any conspiracy theories :)
maybe the "many races" is subjective...
For example... If Barrichello had a championship or two, might he have already retired ? But as it stands he doesn't so he keeps on racing :)
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Quote ( Laila Britāle @ August 20th 2011,07:27:40 )
It happened before and not once.
But that wasn't in Elite, or was it?
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Quote ( Mikko Heikkinen @ August 20th 2011,07:27:43 )
Justinas' driver Number of GPs: 247
Zdenek's driver Number of GPs: 234
Which one is retiring ? The one with less races...
just stating a fact.
I'm not suggesting any conspiracy theories :)
I believe there is a series of factors for a driver retires.
The one driver has won three titles (maybe win the fourth title), and with that he feels professionally complete. Like Häkkinen, Prost ...
The other driver has no title yet, still looking for one. Like Webber ...
But this is all just supposition. It would be boring to know exactly how the program works in the game. :)
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Quote ( Laila Britāle @ August 20th 2011,07:14:13 )
Is Kuwashima first ever driver retiring before age 38?
Kuwashima retires at 32.
Nico's driver is the same age and higher exp and still stay in the business.
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Quote ( Mikko Heikkinen @ August 20th 2011,07:27:43 )
Justinas' driver Number of GPs: 247
Zdenek's driver Number of GPs: 234
Mike, dont look number of races, even though manaual mention it.
There are shitload of much older drivers AND more experianced then Kuwashima, which didnt retire.
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We will have season reset soon. Will some drivers announce retirement?
Apicella
Langes
Trulli
Gabbiani
At 34
Lees
Zanardi
At 33
OR
Brambilla
Belmondo
AT 32...
I bet few will...And no one will be able to sort them by exp, number of tittles or success balast :)
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Quote ( Jan Zaluski @ August 20th 2011,07:24:40 )
And if you notice the logical AND in that sentence, and have played the game for as long as I have to see what has and has not happened during those years, then you will understand...
I'll bring hte lawyer in me out to play...
At the start of every season drivers with many races behind their back and drivers older than 38 years will make a decision if they will retire at the end of the season.
The key thing about the and is that it relates to other drivers, not to the same driver. If the sentence just read
"...their back and older than 38 years..." then your interpretation would be correct Jan, however the correct reading of the sentence is clearly that a driver may retire if he's very experienced or over 38 years old...on your reading, drivers over 38 with low experience would never retire ;)
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Quote ( Jan Zaluski @ August 20th 2011,07:34:14 )
But that wasn't in Elite, or was it?
dude, are you serious lol? at first I thought you are joking but where were you for last... 4 seasons?
Lots of Elite drivers retired at age 33. In fact them getting to 34 years was a surprise. Some drivers retired at age of 32 (Jose Antonio driver).
My driver retired at age 33. It was even a few dozen of retirements in elite not even talking about other groups.
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I have already noticed how the second appearance of the word "drivers" changes the sentence from creating an intersection of two sets to creating two different sets. :)
There is still a problem though, the second condition is clearly defined at 38 y.o., then second isn't. How much is many? Creates possibilities for manipulation.
Bottom line: A bit more transparency wouldn't hurt here. Possibly even some hard rules, ie. all driver retire either after their 250th race (at the end of the season) or after becoming 40 y.o.
Quote ( Justinas Smyšliajevas @ August 20th 2011,10:33:42 )
dude, are you serious lol? at first I thought you are joking but where were you for last... 4 seasons?
Last 4 seasons I was spending an average of 20 minutes per race, sometimes even less when I forgot. :P
Ok, situation acknowledged. Still, my above proposition stands.
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If you say "drivers with many races can retire" in the rules, then it does not tell you anthing and means anything can happen.
What I believe is all drivers have a possiblity to retire after x races.(maybe 200)
And it works like a weather generator and each probability has a chance of happening.
Then depending on your luck, unluck ,your driver can keep going or retire.
But with a vague system like this, there is no point in long term planning.
Why?
Because I will never know which season will be his last and can not plan accordingly.
Therefore, this vague driver retirement system looks like one of the mechanisms to prevent domination.
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Quote ( Toygun Senler @ August 20th 2011,11:08:45 ) What I believe is all drivers have a possiblity to retire after x races.(maybe 200)
I think it is 10 seasons, just 170 races (cuz saw drivers retiring with 195 races or so).
Quote ( Toygun Senler @ August 20th 2011,11:08:45 ) But with a vague system like this, there is no point in long term planning.
exactly! I got lucky this time my driver not to retire next season. In fact all generation got lucky this season except Z driver.
Thats why I also agree with Jan's proposal about strict retiring lines. Like 250 races or 36 years old (of course it can be discussed)
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Quote ( Sion Francis @ August 20th 2011,10:29:16 )
"...their back and older than 38 years..." then your interpretation would be correct Jan, however the correct reading of the sentence is clearly that a driver may retire if he's very experienced or over 38 years old...on your reading, drivers over 38 with low experience would never retire ;)
lawyer in me says, you not right, manual says number of races, not experiece, these are completely different things
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Given that no new drivers are introduced into the game with much experience at all, they're reasonably synonymous for all intents and purposes...point taken though, technically it does say number of races, this is true.
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