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Temë: FGC X - GPRO Eliminator |
319 përgjigje
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#Rigged :P
Thanks Stuart and congrats on the FGC title Adam!
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Quote ( Liviu Sandu @ October 1st 2022,08:22:12 ) And yet GPRO results matter...
Davi came second. If you had finished better, or on par, with Davi, I bet you would have won. That's excluding any GPRO performance on most of your part and his. And if you could have won on such a bad GPRO performance with two out of three of the scoring parts, I think it shows there is no problem with the weighting of the scoring. The effort of all the players is what mattered most, but maybe only if 20:00 was a realistic option for you. I do think that reflected the table in the end (the amount of effort and a player's availability to be there at 20:00).
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Stuart, if you had ran this game something like a year ago I would have been here rocking 20:00:00 finishes left and right
Unfortunately, I kinda changed in someway in the meantime, and I like to play silly games in my own time now. You can tell that by the fact that now I'm a misery in F1FG and now here as well :P
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Yes, an that is the downside to a game with a time based finish aspect and where the GPRO performance is even of minor significance because a player like Liviu can't really expect to do better than he did with the effort he was able to put in or was restricted by. That was my point, wasn't trying to sound harsh on you Liviu (!). In the regular season, I think save for George nobody else is finishing at the hour mark because the finish window opens earlier. But even still, I was happy about trying to spread out the points you'd earn from finishing, elite picks and own GPRO result.
I do like Ania's idea though about letting player's have the option for a reversed scoring mechanism or choosing the 3 players to score than it being automated, although that would then cause people an extra random when random's occur. I tend to feel one random is bad enough, than adding to it. But it is a nice idea. Anyway, it was a good opportunity for me to do something a bit different with the eliminator format. I actually prefer this style of game where you keep 25, 50% from early rounds and 100% on the last. It gives the right amount of weighting to judge a season. We could argue Davi would win without it, but in a shorter game, I felt weighting the earlier rounds was needed. Perhaps in the end it left only the possibility for Adam to throw away the win as long as he had a good finish and own GPRO result to fall back on, but, he was still the best player overall.
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I think the game is fine as it is, in my opinion. I find the FINISH component perhaps a bit out of place with the whole concept but I don't mind it. If you can find a way to capture the FINISH bit but a bit in tune with the rest of the theme then the game will have been improved.
Rebalancing can always be done, in order to make the game more competitive and fairer.
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Yeah my frustration is always that I try to make things as competitive as they can be for everyone playing. Thats always my lasting thought. But sometimes you need some reflection, hindsight, feedback and of course time to get the perfect balance. Maybe this wasn't 'perfect'. I like some of the ideas presented. Well, players could be forced to finish ONLY when at least ONE of their picks has finished. That would then be interesting since you're then not at all relying on your own qualifying. OR, you can only finish with your three CHOSEN picks...so, if someone is so keen to post finish at the hour mark, they are then given the choice to take their own performance - even if they know it would be bad. I don't know, maybe something like that would make it interesting since in Elite even by 20:00 CET on the day before race day, many Elite's havn't finished. I mean qualified. lol.
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How about:
You can have free picks every race (still following that 50 sum) but you pick AS you finish and you can only finish once ALL your 3 picks have qualified?
That can encourage some to make some unoptimal race picks in order to strengthen their FINISH score.
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free picks, but there'd have to be a limit on either how many times an Elite could be picked, or no same three picks etc. A complete free market would just mean people simply pick either the same 3 OR the same sub-30 positioned quick qualifier to be able to finish when they want.
Perhaps each 20+ manager can be picked once, cos faster managers qualify much later than straight after the race (the start time to posting Finish could be removed in that instance).
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ October 1st 2022,14:09:52 ) free picks, but there'd have to be a limit on either how many times an Elite could be picked, or no same three picks etc. A complete free market would just mean people simply pick either the same 3 OR the same sub-30 positioned quick qualifier to be able to finish when they want.
I think not having the same 3 picks as someone else could be a good call. That 20+ rule could also be interesting.
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Otherwise I guarantee everyone would pick e.g Jussi Mäenpää or Michel Vandecatelle, since they have generally been the earliest Elite qualifiers this season for one blindingly obvious reason, and then pick two high standing guys. If those cheap picks are capped at one...it'd make things more interesting for sure. Though, probably having some kind of start time to the Finish still, since otherwise having no start time essentially caps the number of people competing for the winning finish post at just one person, obviously.
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Congrats Adam and thanks Stuart for hosting!
I must say I was surprised to see that my 20ish positions in races got me 2nd best own performance result. But I can see that George had similar results to mine, he just chose his Elite squad to have 3 scorers while I went for 2 scorers.
My take on the regular season game is that Stuart managed to make a beauty out of nothing. I mean, if I want to summarize what the game is about... there is no game. You post Finish twice per week and that's it. But the game is just nice. The graphics are really cool and the details are well thought (scoring is good, posting quali time along Finish is a brilliant idea).
The game we played here, I think it's a completely different game. It's more interesting to me personally, as I like to actually play the games I join, not spectate them. But it's not the same game anymore. So I think changing the original game with Elite picks will probably change the target playerbase.
I see discussion about changing which picks are needed to Finish. I think it was okay the way it is. Or maybe we could exclude our own times for that. Cezary was in my squad partially because he qualified early. So this is a good tradeoff of pick value to consider. On the other hand, if someone has a teammate or friend in Elite, they can either ask them to qualify early, or at least be well informed when that person qualifies to be the first one to use their time.
In the first round, I thought that the Finish points are added to the account of the player whose time you used. This would be an interesting idea, but it might end up just further disadvantaging those with bad gpro results (if they use own quali time, they either lose the Finish points or are forced to use own race result too).
I don't think capping 30+ or 20+ managers at one would work. You say everyone would pick Jussi Mäenpää or Michel Vandecatelle, but if you cap the possible picks, all you get is someone who joins the game earlier gets to pick one of those and keep them for the whole game, which sounds even worse.
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Quote ( Ania Piekarska @ October 1st 2022,14:50:36 ) But it's not the same game anymore. So I think changing the original game with Elite picks will probably change the target playerbase.
I would probably agree with that. I know @Richard Robin Paukson (A16) prefers the regular season because he has to worry only about one action after he qualifies for the race and that is to post finish. Asking players from that game to make picks from Elite, the audience probably changes to people who like prediction games.
Quote ( Ania Piekarska @ October 1st 2022,14:50:36 ) I see discussion about changing which picks are needed to Finish. I think it was okay the way it is. Or maybe we could exclude our own times for that. Cezary was in my squad partially because he qualified early.
I intended on doing this originally before realising the number of Elite qualifiers being small even as close as 12 hours before deadline. I couldn't be sure if it was fair to expect people to finish maybe within a few hours til the race start. Although, looking back, I think I was thinking of casual silly game players who would be on-site the evening before their race to do GPRO 'stuff' , which is why the regular season has that finish start time, whereas committed silly gamers like yourselves would probably easily make the time for a late deadline or timescale to finish.
Quote ( Ania Piekarska @ October 1st 2022,14:50:36 ) I don't think capping 30+ or 20+ managers at one would work. You say everyone would pick Jussi Mäenpää or Michel Vandecatelle, but if you cap the possible picks, all you get is someone who joins the game earlier gets to pick one of those and keep them for the whole game, which sounds even worse.
True. Plus I think its giving more administration for both players and host. I prefer it really that in a game you don't have to check other players actions too much. I felt like what we had with no exct same rosters was enough.
Thanks!
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^ the bottom table is what the points would be with no scaling for rounds 1 and 2.
Liviu was by far the best at making Elite picks.
Adam was the best at own GPRO performance.
Davi was the best finish poster.
And we can all see clearly who was most consistent in all of that, by quite a margin in reality.
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omgsh such a difference :P
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The difference isn't real for you Ric.
You have no R3 calculated
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Thought it would just be nice to see the totals without scaling their too. Which shows how eliminator format does its job of making the competition last to the end cos Davi or Ania had genuine chances to win right to the wire. Also, Davi was stronger in two aspects than the winner. So, that's quite tough luck, but Adam was just so consistent with GPRO scoring and also overall.
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I didn't give enough importance to Finish. As for my GPRO season, it was compromised and it doesn't help me at all.
Thanks for the stats Stuart. The perfect host.
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ October 1st 2022,17:52:29 ) Davi was the best finish poster.
@George Togas (M4) is really getting old. :P
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