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Accident between Hamilton and Button in Canada 2011: Who was guilty?
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Tópico: Accident between Hamilton and Button: Who was guilty? |
192 respostas
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#121 Postado 16 Jun 2011, 22:18:02 (editado pela última vêz 16 Jun 2011, 22:25:33 por Phil Maunder)
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I'm just annoyed they didn't have a great big row about it afterwards. I'm starting to get fed up of Mr & Mrs Mclaren. Team mates who like each other is boring :))
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Hamilton fault, it is always hamilton fault :P
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this pole is pointless, both it was a racing incident, no one can blame either driver for that!
Button could not see a thing with the water spray coming up, hamilton was just going for a pass... Even Hamilton said it wasn't Buttons fault
Quote ( Jordan Jeffery @ June 14th 2011,21:18:26 )
Button. Simple.
Your just saying that because you dont like him, okay if it was his fault why? well?
Theirs cars are allmost imposible to see anything in the mirriors, god, give the drivers a break every time an accident happens, it was only a racing incident...
Quote ( Cameron Bailey @ June 16th 2011,21:44:15 )
I'm just annoyed they didn't have a great big row about it afterwards. I'm starting to get fed up of Mr & Mrs Mclaren. Team mates who like each other is boring :))
No, its called being profesional...
Back in the old days of real F1 (prior 1975) all drivers got along, go back even futher, every driver used to go out and have a BBQ after the race.. Formula 1 these days isn't even real racing, its politics, 10% driver 90% car, Fact... back in the old days you could win almost driving any car, aslong as you were good
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#124 Postado 16 Jun 2011, 23:09:09 (editado pela última vêz 16 Jun 2011, 23:10:05 por Phil Maunder)
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Quote ( Peter Franklin @ June 16th 2011,22:58:46 )
back in the old days you could win almost driving any car, aslong as you were good
Sorry but I really really can't agree with this. Formula 1 has always been dominated by the development of cars, I'm not sure which old days you're refering too where it was a level playing field & a free for all of driver talent? There have always been dominant cars/teams. Ferrari, alfa romeo, the mercedes pre-war? Not really sure it's fair to point the finger at modern F1 drivers & say you're not racing its all politics.
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Quote ( Peter Franklin @ June 16th 2011,22:58:46 )
Formula 1 these days isn't even real racing, its politics, 10% driver 90% car,
You have a point, but in the old days drivers did very little development. guys like Hunt and co were far more interested in living the playboy lifestyle. Even to the time of Prost and Mansell, the driver was largely left to their own skill and devices. Schumacher was probably the one who changed all that, studying the track on foot (or on that weird little bike) sticking to a diet plan, having a half dozen personal trainers and spending every spare moment in a simulator. He lives and breathes Formula one.
He is the standard by which current drivers are measured professionally, and now practically all drivers show the same commitment.
The car is a large portion of the reason for a teams success, but without a good driver, it's just a lump of high tech crap.
To me, it's 50/50 car and driver. As the Hamilton/Button accident shows, knowing when and where to make a move is far more important that which car you're in.
The real difference between now and the F1 of the mid 70's is that all the drivers are 100% committed to being the best they can be, and the differences between them are so minimal that minor advantages in machinery make a bigger difference than the talent between drivers.
The modern driver has better instincts, more experience and better training than at any other time in history. They are faster drivers than any before them.
Still, for all that, my favourite memories are still of seeing Senna just own people in the wet in a far inferior lotus, driving from his gut and making it stick. The current system doesn't really allow for that sort of talent/lunacy combination anymore, more is the pity.
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Quote ( Joshua Eddy @ June 19th 2011,05:39:54 )
guys like Hunt and co were far more interested in living the playboy lifestyle. Even to the time of Prost and Mansell, the driver was largely left to their own skill and devices
I was meaning even futher back, in the days off Graham Hill and Jim Clark and Moss, now they were the glory days of F1, Collin Chapman aswell was always heavily devolping his cars and trying out new things, they would have been the best days to grow up and race F1 in :)
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Vettel is to be blamed. :)
His technological advance drive Lewis mad. But it will be all over beginning with Silverstone. Let's hope is not to late.
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It was a pure race situation They could not both see very well in such a weather so it nobodys fault
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Quote ( Geir Pukk @ June 19th 2011,08:37:28 )
It was a pure race situation They could not both see very well in such a weather so it nobodys fault
Exactly, i dont know how people can keep going on about this after having experts and officials say the exact same thing! people here think they know better, yeah right,
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I find it mind-baffling that people are even discussing who was at fault and that quite a lot of people here even seem to think that no-one or even Button was at fault when it was so obvious that Lewis was at fault. It was not a racing incident, it was Lewis trying to make a move where there was no room, Jenson was just following the ideal racing line, no way could he have expected Lewis to make a move there.
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Fail pic, Hamilton had a clear view of Button, so how were Button's mirrors full of spray.
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Quote ( George Samuels @ June 28th 2011,22:04:52 )
Fail pic, Hamilton had a clear view of Button, so how were Button's mirrors full of spray.
George. I'm proud to award you the douchebag comment of the thread award.
I was blaming Hamilton for the incident.
Also the spray around the mirrors comes from the FRONT WHEELS.
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#135 Postado 28 Jun 2011, 22:11:10 (editado pela última vêz 28 Jun 2011, 22:12:44 por William Hunt)
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in Montréal the ideal line is always driving from right to left on the start-finish straight, Button was just following the ideal line, as all the cars do every lap, if you look at footage of the race anyone will notice that. Hamilton was insane to try and overtake in that spot, lucky he didn't get a race ban for it because he had pushed 2 cars (poor Maldonado in 5th place and also Massa) out of the race in Monaco and then crashed in to Webber and Button in Montréal. Four times his mistake, he really should drive more with his head, as his teammate Button is doing.
People who dare to say that Button was at fault either have not been following F1 very long, are very young or they are hard-core Hamilton-fanboys.
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This is a pointless thread, it was nobody's fault, it was a racing incident, 2 drivers wanting the same piece of tarmac. Its like the Button/Alonso incident. Where's the thread for that? This is just a thread for people who don't like McLaren drivers.
Its done with, leave it be already.
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Quote ( Jonathan MacLean @ June 28th 2011,22:09:43 )
Also the spray around the mirrors comes from the FRONT WHEELS.
I'm telling you right now there would not have been as much spray in Button's mirrors as there were in Hamilton's and also the vigorosity Button turned against Hamilton way after he moved over to the racing just proves it was a deliberate attack.
Everyone just seems to blame Hamilton just because of what he did in Monaco.
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Quote ( George Samuels @ June 28th 2011,22:16:45 )
I'm telling you right now there would not have been as much spray in Button's mirrors as there were in Hamilton's
Because Hamilton needed to look in his mirrors to see button?
Smart logic there Einstein.
Quote ( George Samuels @ June 28th 2011,22:16:45 )
the vigorosity Button turned against Hamilton way after he moved over to the racing just proves it was a deliberate attack.
You petulant child, He was taking the racing line. That was clear as day.
Quote ( George Samuels @ June 28th 2011,22:16:45 )
Everyone just seems to blame Hamilton just because of what he did in Monaco.
You're ABSOLUTELY right.
'cept for me though, I'm blaming him because it was his fault.
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Quote ( George Samuels @ June 28th 2011,22:16:45 )
I'm telling you right now there would not have been as much spray in Button's mirrors as there were in Hamilton's and also the vigorosity Button turned against Hamilton way after he moved over to the racing just proves it was a deliberate attack.
Button looked in the mirrors, took the racing line, then Hamilton tried pit maneuvering him, Hamilton's stupid for going into a gap that was obviously going to close.
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Quote ( Jonathan MacLean @ June 28th 2011,22:19:25 )
Because Hamilton needed to look in his mirrors to see button?
Hamilton went down the outside of Button and all of a sudden after Button was on the line, literally just before you flick left, he just turned right... wtf is that about?
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i think vettel was guilty
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Quote ( George Samuels @ June 28th 2011,22:21:18 )
Hamilton went down the outside of Button and all of a sudden after Button was on the line literally just before you flick left he just turned right... wtf is that about?
It wasn't just before, and its obvious what he was going to do since thats the racing line (that even Hamilton himself uses)
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Quote ( William Hunt @ June 28th 2011,22:02:47 )
it was so obvious that Lewis was at fault.
Obviously you have no idea about racing - are drivers not supposed to overtake when they are quicker than the driver in front? The defensive line would have been to the right and Lewis, expecting a defensive move, moved to the left where, at that point, there was room to pass. Jenson, possibly, did not see him so racing incident - it happens.
If you get to see these guys race, not on TV but live at a circuit, you would appreciate the skill, talent and much more than we could ever imagine. Would you try to overtake at 200 kmh in the wet?
Give the guy a break.
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George. you're just mindlessly defending your idol. And that's fine. Many have said it before me, It's a racing incident. However in this instance the blame lies with Hamilton.
To expand on why; A) refer to the picture. and B) he could've backed out of it. I don't care if you disagree. If he hit the brake pedal, Sure, he'd have lost a place or 2. But he'd have finished the race.
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Hamilton is far from an idol, idolism would be something like David Beckham scoring a trademark free kick..... Hamilton i agree was stupid for what he did in Monaco but seriously, without Hamilton nearly half of the overtakes this season wouldn't have even happened.
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#147 Postado 28 Jun 2011, 22:31:16 (editado pela última vêz 28 Jun 2011, 22:32:08 por William Hunt)
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Quote ( Neil Bryant @ June 28th 2011,22:25:53 )
Obviously you have no idea about racing - are drivers not supposed to overtake when they are quicker than the driver in front?
Sure I know nothing about racing, I only grew up on the racing track (my dad was a racing driver) and haven't missed a single F1 race since '85.
Look, having a faster car doesn't mean that you can just drive over or against the car in front of you (like they did in NASCAR at Sonoma, that race was a disgrace) and when you make a pass you should realise where the ideal line is and that the car in front will follow that ideal line, if Hamilton wanted to overtake there he should have done it on the right side, outside the ideal line that Jenson, just like any other car including Lewis' car, was taking there every single lap. It was just a plain stupid move by Lewis that was bound to end in a crash, he should have used his head and be more patient. Right now he looks like a driver who wan't control himself.
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Quote ( George Samuels @ June 28th 2011,22:29:39 )
Hamilton is far from an idol, idolism would be something like David Beckham scoring a trademark free kick..... Hamilton i agree was stupid for what he did in Monaco but seriously, without Hamilton nearly half of the overtakes this season wouldn't have even happened.
And if he didnt try for his overtakes. He and a few others would be finishing more races.
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Quote ( Jonathan MacLean @ June 28th 2011,22:31:22 )
And if he didnt try for his overtakes. He and a few others would be finishing more races.
And we would have more races like Valencia & Monte Carlo - boring.
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Quote ( Neil Bryant @ June 28th 2011,22:36:18 )
And we would have more races like Valencia & Monte Carlo - boring.
Because racing cant be fun without crashes!
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