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Enquete de tópico do fórum
Do you agree don´t reset the wear of the car at the end of the season?
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Tópico: Don´t reset the wear of car parts |
32 respostas
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#1 Postado 24 Jul 2020, 18:09:23
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Before you all hit me, let me say that I am only in favor of this change in exchange for a BIG financial compensation.
This is a new idea and maybe i didn't see yet all the perspectives.
....maybe, just maybe would be good to have the possibility to decide if we want the car to be all new in the 1st race ... or to leave some parts with some wear.
Assuming that there will be financial compensation, what´s your opinion?
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#2 Postado 24 Jul 2020, 18:13:40
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I think that such a change would improve races during the season end.
One should think about the effect for the ones below or above 50M as well as for managers close to negative
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#3 Postado 24 Jul 2020, 18:13:50 (editado pela última vêz 24 Jul 2020, 18:20:35 por Josh Clark)
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I can see the appeal of not resetting parts, but honestly I don't think it's that difficult to set up the following season. I guess this would also make demotivating at the start of a season a lot easier or even abusable if there's a rebate on not resetting wear.
Without thinking about it too much I'd say I'm indifferent, if anything leaning towards a no.
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#4 Postado 24 Jul 2020, 18:21:44
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Quote ( Ioannis Dimitroglou @ July 24th 2020,18:13:40 ) I think that such a change would improve races during the season end.
I hadn't thought about that benefit yet ....
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#5 Postado 24 Jul 2020, 18:37:36
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Sorry bad answer, I've nothing to says.
OK, it will improve end of seasons but there is a lot of others aspects, financial and planning who will be touched in a bad way.
This will critically put managers who intend to make something to waste a lot of money in 1st races
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#6 Postado 24 Jul 2020, 18:46:07
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Quote ( Sébastien Boulanger @ July 24th 2020,18:37:36 ) This will critically put managers who intend to make something to waste a lot of money in 1st races
The idea was a bit the opposite.
Now you have to reset your car.
witn my sugestion you receive money ..hand then decide if you wont to speend it all in the firt race with new parts ....or not.
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#7 Postado 24 Jul 2020, 18:50:48
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I am mostly on board with this change, I liked it when Rogerio suggested it earlier. This change would benefit people who are using lower level parts more, which I think people would welcome as a good change. The one place where it is not so great is that it in higher leagues newer players will be affected worse than the older players, because they get fewer CCPs from tests because of their staff untrainables.
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#8 Postado 24 Jul 2020, 19:11:22
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If you are compensated for NOT having replaced worn parts for first race. Then I suppose you could leave it and make money from that situation, receiving half the cost of new parts.
I know Gpro is not real life but this makes no sense in virtual reality either.
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#9 Postado 24 Jul 2020, 19:11:22
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Quote ( Ioannis Dimitroglou @ July 24th 2020,18:13:40 ) I think that such a change would improve races during the season end.
One should think about the effect for the ones below or above 50M as well as for managers close to negative
Simple way of improving that. Have a way for us to be more flexible with driver contracts. So people are not sandbagging in raves 15-17 etc.
Give the option to a manager to resign a contract between seasons. I know its a huge change but it encourages people to push more. No easy retentions peruaps in races 16 and 17. None of this 99% parts completing a race without smoke because that manager hasn't managed their parts over the course of the season .
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also, gpro could ask a fee for parts fixing between seasons...in exchange of staff being trained in tech skills and/or experience.
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Quote ( Michael Keeney @ July 24th 2020,19:11:22 ) None of this 99% parts completing a race without smoke because that manager hasn't managed their parts over the course of the season .
Hi Keeney,
That was not my intention....but is endeed an real effect.
but if you can't manage the wear until the end of the season ... your problem will continue in the next seasons even with this change. (ofc could harm others meanwhile)
But we don´t have to be afraid off managers that can´t make his plannings.
This sesason for ex. i would rather receive 2/3 off the money off the parts rather than have them all at 0%
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Quote ( Nuno Vicente @ July 24th 2020,18:21:44 )
Quote ( Ioannis Dimitroglou @ July 24th 2020,18:13:40 )
I think that such a change would improve races during the season end.
I hadn't thought about that benefit yet ....
If you hadnt thought of this, what is the main point of the change if not for this, especially if intend to financially compensate season resets making the extra spend 'free'?
If anything, seems would be a sneaky way to add money to the game for ppl chosing to relegate/retain while making a promotion season more expensive as now forced to buy parts unlike others.
The way it feels this will actually end up playing out is going to be opposite of what folks intuitively expecting. Ppl just going to smoke 3 extra races a season with this change, rather than actually spend money end of season, with the free money you intend throwing at it.
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#13 Postado 24 Jul 2020, 21:02:20 (editado pela última vêz 24 Jul 2020, 21:19:00 por Nuno Vicente)
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Quote ( MG van Rensburg @ July 24th 2020,19:57:33 ) If you hadnt thought of this
I didn´t say that...i say:
Quote ( Nuno Vicente @ July 24th 2020,18:09:23 ) maybe i didn't see yet all the perspectives.
...after all who can see them all?
Thats wy the opinion of everyone is important.... and since some of you come with concrete reasons for being against...i will tell that the main reason as to do with PHA.
maybe in a few seasons we will have the maturity to talk about it again.
for now i´m glad that 29% are against the NO :)
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Quote ( Nuno Vicente @ July 24th 2020,21:02:20 ) Quote ( MG van Rensburg @ July 24th 2020,19:57:33 )
If you hadnt thought of this
I didn´t say that...i say:
Quote ( Nuno Vicente @ July 24th 2020,18:09:23 )
maybe i didn't see yet all the perspectives.
...after all who can see them all?
Thats wy the opinion of everyone is important.... and since some of you come with concrete reasons for being against...i will tell that the main reason as to do with PHA.
maybe in a few seasons we will have the maturity to talk about it again.
for now i´m glad that 29% are against the NO :)
What's not mature about the way people have been responding now? I asked a genuine question and you pretty much avoided it, not sharing your own thoughts nor explaining it to me so I can understand your perspective.
I've been in gaming for over 30 years now. Lived countless experiences of 'well intentioned' ideas having very much the complete opposite result thanks to the inevitable human ingenuity to so often turn what was meant to be an intuitively balancing effect instead breaking the game further.
The suggestion seems very abusable and could likely end up in more non-racing to milk the finance gains. Its simply an opinion, constructive input, with reasons and explanations as to why I see it going wrong, and not as the ýes' folks are expecting. Its not calling people stupid, its sharing 30 years of lessons about humans and gaming and having a discussion.
If I may simply suggest to do some googling and youtube searches on the topic. So many examples of similiar lessons learnt by many game developer companies that have been freely shared on the topic.
At the moment, even the idea that the end of season is a 'problem' is itself seems a purely emotive argument about personal preferences, and not about facts in itself and can very likely is missing alot of how the end of the season plays out being part of far larger 'balancing' effect of the gameplay, with far further reaching consequences for any changes than most realise.
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#15 Postado 24 Jul 2020, 21:41:45 (editado pela última vêz 24 Jul 2020, 21:44:35 por Eric Boutin)
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i totally against this idea of not reset the car damage. would have to spend alot more money because of this. dont see any reason to do this to give a money compensation. i end season with old parts usually and save by not having to pay to repair it so this would be a punishment and its also idiot to think a new season would be with used parts. we shall all start at the same level to be fair. why change something that work fine ? no reason.
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Innovation or tradition?
This is often the question here.
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Quote ( Eric Boutin @ July 24th 2020,21:41:45 ) i totally against this idea of not reset the car damage. would have to spend alot more money because of this. dont see any reason to do this to give a money compensation. i end season with old parts usually and save by not having to pay to repair it so this would be a punishment and its also idiot to think a new season would be with used parts. we shall all start at the same level to be fair. why change something that work fine ? no reason.
But we would all need to spend more money so that part balances out. I like the ability to make the end of the season important for everyone.
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It is a senseless idea. If I will receive a compensation of 50% of car parts at the end of season, then I will upgrade my parts to the last race. So, I will begin new season with low wear AND lot of cash. Think! High level parts are more expensive that low, so more money ir you have high level.
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I fail to see how that would improve the game
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#20 Postado 24 Jul 2020, 22:31:25 (editado pela última vêz 24 Jul 2020, 22:57:29 por Nuno Vicente)
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Maybe it´s my fault, because i´m not vey good with words.
But i have until 07-08-2020 to change minds....and i will try to improve until then.
Actually i don´t like the end of season...or the start off it.
So ... i don´t like 4-6 races of the season, because i can´t play with PHA as i like.
If we have a great efect at PHA .....i presume that it woud be good if we could use it all the 17 races.
And we cant.....100%
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As far as criticisms go, I do not agree with these two:
Quote ( Eric Boutin @ July 24th 2020,21:41:45 ) i totally against this idea of not reset the car damage. would have to spend alot more money because of this. dont see any reason to do this to give a money compensation. i end season with old parts usually and save by not having to pay to repair it so this would be a punishment and its also idiot to think a new season would be with used parts. we shall all start at the same level to be fair. why change something that work fine ? no reason.
We don't all start with the same level. Amateur groups typically have car levels ranging from 3 all the way up to 7, all of these people gain very differently at season reset currently, if anything this would make it more equal there. If you wish to continue throwing the last few races to buy a new car before Race 1, there is nothing in this change that stops you from doing so as far as I can see.
Quote ( Gastón Paris @ July 24th 2020,22:05:16 ) It is a senseless idea. If I will receive a compensation of 50% of car parts at the end of season, then I will upgrade my parts to the last race. So, I will begin new season with low wear AND lot of cash. Think! High level parts are more expensive that low, so more money ir you have high level.
The compensation does not have to be proportional to car level, it can be a flat amount for each tier. It is actually the current season reset system that incentives buying expensive parts towards the end of the season so that you can use them twice.
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#22 Postado 24 Jul 2020, 23:28:16 (editado pela última vêz 24 Jul 2020, 23:30:09 por Nuno Vicente)
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Quote ( Harsh Sheth @ July 24th 2020,18:50:48 ) I liked it when Rogerio suggested it earlier.
Indeed i forgot to say that the idea was from Rogerio (sorry mate)
In here:
/gb/forum/ViewTopic.asp?Highlight=&TopicId=29536&Pos...
so...blame im...lol
But this is a very complex subject with several positive points ... and also possible negatives ... but to minimize or even cancel them ... I count on the admins to find the right way to do it ... . because I don't know how to...
And....depending on how the change is implemented I may or may not agree with it?!
I'm just expressing something that can be improved ... and already thought by others before me ... so we have until 07 for the brainstorm
PS: I Still remember when energy was implemented....i was 100% against it :)
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Quote ( Michael Keeney @ July 24th 2020,19:11:22 ) raves 15-17
Ah, my youth...
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I see the end of season & part reset as adding variety to planning. Something different to optimise around which breaks up what would otherwise be quite monotonous part planning.
Not resetting would let us optimise PHA and part use a bit better true, but everyone would do that. What does it actually add to the game?
Quote ( Nuno Vicente @ July 13th 2020,18:37:02 ) just maybe i don´t wont a new engine at first race of the season if it´s Monaco.
But isn't being forced to take a new engine (this one race out of 17) an interesting constraint to have to deal with?
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If this kind of suggestion is to gain any traction, it would need to focus more towards its sole benefit: reducing the number of smokers in the final races.
Dont think giving a cash bonus based on whether you are replacing parts or not is a good idea, as that would be greatly abused.
However, keeping part wear the same season to season and then giving some sort of additional compensation to balance the financial impact could work.
Depending on the timing of such compensation it could unbalance the relegation system though. Or, if race income is simply adjusted it could change the season planning a bit until everyone adjusted.
In the end, only thing that would be a noticable change to most managers would be fewer smoking cars in the final race..... but mostly likely more smoking cars throughout the season (just spread out through the races though).
I can see it both ways, though I dont know if it's a real big benefit either way.
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#26 Postado 25 Jul 2020, 00:10:58 (editado pela última vêz 25 Jul 2020, 00:21:45 por Nuno Vicente)
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Quote ( Roland Postle @ July 24th 2020,23:42:02 ) quite monotonous part planning.
And you don´t think that first races...and last races are monotonous rigth now?
Everybody with new or completely worn out cars ...
Quote ( Roland Postle @ July 24th 2020,23:42:02 ) Quote ( Nuno Vicente @ July 13th 2020,18:37:02 )
just maybe i don´t wont a new engine at first race of the season if it´s Monaco.
But isn't being forced to take a new engine (this one race out of 17) an interesting constraint to have to deal with?
Wow...you really read the other topic.. :)
That day i think i talked to much....i was drunk, forget that post :)
Edit: ...and if the race is at rain...is even worse:
Welcome to Season 76!
For this season we've done a small tweak to how the rain affects races to make rain affected races more realistic. When the rain starts falling down the basic characteristics of the track you are racing on (Power, Handling, Acceleration) will not remain the same as in dry weather. As an example if you have a Power biased car dominating the dry track in the first laps, it may strugle when the track gets wet.
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Has some merit. Though, I would like to see the changed worked into improving part management through the season as well. This includes being able to test with parts put 100% worn and not below 90%. And allow part replacement/ downgrades at a time between races and not restrict to 1 I.e. take full advantage of part wear if testing. I know all this may open up discussion further beyond the original topic but having parts with wear at start of season affects how testing is utilised too.
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#28 Postado 26 Jul 2020, 17:31:54 (editado pela última vêz 26 Jul 2020, 17:33:16 por Nuno Vicente)
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Quote ( Garry Wedlock @ July 25th 2020,02:32:21 ) Has some merit. Though, I would like to see the changed worked into improving part management through the season as well. This includes being able to test with parts put 100% worn and not below 90%. And allow part replacement/ downgrades at a time between races and not restrict to 1 I.e. take full advantage of part wear if testing. I know all this may open up discussion further beyond the original topic but having parts with wear at start of season affects how testing is utilised too.
Hi Garry,
It´s really a pertinent question.
If you can race with 100% car why you can´t do that at testing?
Well testing with 100% parts i don´t agree you would get unfair advantage.....but i would agree with testing with parts above 90% wear until reach the 100%....at amador level...and maybe Pró?
For ex. you have a 91% of engine ...you can probably do 50 laps, but if you have it at 99% you can´t do more than ~10 laps.
But in higher divisions this condition is important and obliges the most experienced managers to have a very rigorous planning and rewards or penalizes the effort of each one in that planning.
About upgrade more than on level at a time.....it would benefit PHA, but it would need very restrictive measures to avoid abuses in the upgrade.
At this moment you have as max. +1 level car every race...well this max. would be the same.....each race and maybe restricted to double upgrade parts....and in exchange of a price increase.
For ex. if you made a double upgrade engine, you may pay 1,5 engine?
The managers who are fighting will spend more in exchange for a more tuned car for the track.
they are just my first impressions on your theme that deserved a topic of its own ... due to the importance and complexity it would have in the game.
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suggestion:
I started now and I'm still learning how to play, but I understand this question.
In my opinion,
you kept the old parts with wear, but a wildcard was given at the beginning of the season so you could use it by lowering the wear of each component by a percentage per test.
imagine that you had for each part example wing, engine brakes chassis etc, 30%, 30% and 40% the order was random, you saved money and still forced you to make a rational management for the time, since you did not reset to zero, unless you evolved to a higher level then paying cash.
I don't know if I made myself explain.
hug
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#30 Postado 28 Jul 2020, 13:48:08 (editado pela última vêz 28 Jul 2020, 13:49:18 por Nuno Vicente)
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Thanks for the output Alexandre.
I think this will help new promoters.
For ex. rigth now you came from rookie to amateur with level 3-4 parts?
But we have a lot of level 6-7 parts at amateur.
With this change managers with level 3-4 parts at amateur could receive ~the same amount off money. .... but managers with 6-7 parts would lose some money.
Even at Elite, managers with level 7 parts would lose some money also?!
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