| Autor |
Tópico: Russia has attacked Ukraine! |
18311 respostas
|
|
|
Quote ( Konstantin Sobolev @ June 18th 2022,12:11:08 ) In Ukraine, 9 opposition parties have been banned in these months. Or am I wrong?
Not opposition, but pro-russian - these are different things. Your TV calls them opposition, although only one of them was represented in parliament. In addition, the ban on the party does not mean that the MP has ceased to perform his duties.
Quote ( Konstantin Sobolev @ June 18th 2022,12:11:08 ) Objectionable politicians and bloggers are jailed.
Not objectionable politicians, but collaborators who did not have time to escape from the country - like Medvedchuk (he is not in prison, but under investigation for now). He and others like him have been undermining Ukrainian statehood for years, and they will have to answer for this.
Quote ( Konstantin Sobolev @ June 18th 2022,12:11:08 ) If a rally in support of Russia takes place in Kiev, what will happen? In this respect, Russia is many times more democratic than Ukraine.
You're being completely serious now. Niels gave you a great loophole to whiten yourself - throwing up a version of a provocation - but you will step on the same rake again and again.
Ukraine is now at war with Russia - supporting Russia is a violation of the articles of the criminal code on collaborationism or something else. It's the same as saying that in London in 1943, a denial of support for the Nazis is an infringement of freedom of speech.
Let me remind you - Russia is a criminal - support and assistance to criminals is a crime.
Regarding support for Russia before the war, similar rallies took place regularly in Ukraine - from the Communist Party, or rather its Ulamks, from public organizations, and so on, even after 2014, after Ukrainians began to die at the hands of Russia in the Donbass.
Now pro-Russian parties are banned in Ukraine - and this will always be the case, just as various countries banned communist parties in their time.
Quote ( Konstantin Sobolev @ June 18th 2022,12:11:08 ) Well, you see how you turn everything around. You call the same phenomenon a healthy society (the West) and the action of a totalitarian system (Russia). The same phenomenon.
No, I call Western societies - societies with healthy political systems, in which the mechanism of balances in power works perfectly. In such societies, people can afford not to be interested in politics.
In Ukraine and Russia there are bad political systems - although they cannot be compared - because in Russia there is a totalitarian state. But unlike you, in 2014 we changed this and left the dictatorship, and now we are trying to rebuild what we want and prevent individuals from dragging us back into the maelstrom of the Russian sphere of influence.
|
|
|
|
Convenient, of course. If you don't like a political party, then it should be banned. Oppositionists should be called collaborators, someone should be put in jail, and someone should be killed. Now I understand what you call democracy. Did you learn this in the USA? Well, Russia has a totalitarian regime that suppresses people and freedoms. But Russia has a chance to become a democratic country. It's just that anyone who disagrees with Putin should be called collaborators and treated the same way as in Ukraine. And then, probably, the EU will take Russia to itself.
I congratulate you.)) You have a serious part of the country, these are collaborators. Ban them. Although what am I talking about. This is what you've been doing for a long time. This is one of the points of Russia's special military operation
|
|
|
|
|
#6240 Postado 18 Jun 2022, 14:30:29 (editado pela última vêz 18 Jun 2022, 14:44:35 por Ihor Rusnak)
|
Citar
|
Quote ( Konstantin Sobolev @ June 18th 2022,13:15:16 ) Convenient, of course. If you don't like a political party, then it should be banned.
This is not about me, but about society as a whole. These nine parties - not the only ones - that take a pro-Russian position - but their guilt has been proven - they were banned by the court - they received funding from Russia, financed paid protests themselves - were engaged in illegal political activities, agitated for secession from Ukraine and much more. Stop trying to show here as if you understand something about domestic Ukrainian politics, and even more so stop creating the appearance that political repressions are taking place in Ukraine.
Quote ( Konstantin Sobolev @ June 18th 2022,13:15:16 ) Oppositionists should be called collaborators, someone should be put in jail, and someone should be killed.
You are using the word oppositionist incorrectly, besides, Ukraine does not have a two-party system, so not all opposition parties are pro-Russian.
And regarding the banned patrias - most of them existed only on paper - in real political life - elections - they did not accept. It was only a screen to cover up the actions of real political Russian forces in Ukraine.
Quote ( Konstantin Sobolev @ June 18th 2022,13:15:16 ) I congratulate you.)) You have a serious part of the country, these are collaborators.
It's not, why did you think so? A collaborator is someone who cooperates with the occupying power - first of all on a political level. After the outbreak of the war, even those who were loyal to Russia changed their minds. You saw it in the seemingly pro-Russian Kherson or Melitopol, or in other, smaller cities.
You are now repeating mistake what the leadership of your country made - after 2014 and examples of how people live under occupation in the Donbass - there were few people loyal to Russia, now there are even fewer such people, so few that you put Gauleiters occupied cities - anyone - up to the guards and cleaners.
Quote ( Konstantin Sobolev @ June 18th 2022,13:15:16 ) This is what you've been doing for a long time.
No, Konstantin. For in the current parliament, the second largest faction is pro-Russian, but this will not happen again, since in the next elections such parties will either not be able to run or simply will not receive the necessary support in society.
So stop carrying your schizophrenic version of reality and concentrate on how to make sure that your fellow citizens do not go to Ukraine and die here if you really feel sorry for them.
upd: Speaking of collaborators - this is what Sobolev's collaborator's car looks like in Kherson - https://t.me/nexta_live/30843
The partisans worked, I also ask you to pay attention that the screen is taken from the plot of "Suspilne. Kherson" - this is a public broadcaster throughout Ukraine - the resistance movement in the city is at an incredibly high level - from such attempts to eliminate collaborators to just civil protest in the form of spontaneous singing anthem of Ukraine.
https://t.me/myalgorhythm/7463
You have no chance - you will not be able to make people forget the crimes against them and their families, especially if the Armed Forces of Ukraine are 10 kilometers away from Kherson.
|
|
|
|
The war in Ukraine. Total estimated losses of Russian occupation forces for 115 days (06/18/22)
~ 33350 (+200) In the personnel
~ 1000 Prisoners
216 (+1) Aircraft
180 Helicopters
1465 (+9) Tanks
3573 (+10) BBM
739 (+5) Artillery systems
98 (+1) Air defense means
233 MLRS
2513 (+17) Automobile equipment and fuel tanks
14 (+1) Ships and boats
594 (+1) Operational and tactical UAVs
|
|
|
|
|
My first birthday in wartime! Apparently, this is a test ...
|
|
|
|
Happy Birthday Serhiy. :)
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Konstantin Sobolev @ June 18th 2022,13:15:16 ) Although what am I talking about.
We've all been wondering that Konstantin...
|
|
|
|
⚡️Participants of the upcoming NATO summit in Madrid will announce that Russia is no longer a partner for the alliance, but a "threat to peace and stability" - Alliance Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg.
- NATO will not take a direct part in the war, but is ready to fight back if Russia attacks the Alliance itself;
- there is no threat of the use of nuclear weapons by Russia now.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Konstantin Sobolev @ June 18th 2022,13:15:16 ) Russia has a chance to become a democratic country. It's just that anyone who disagrees with Putin should be called collaborators and treated the same way as in Ukraine
I have no idea how much vodka might helped to create this...but give my regards to Alex Navalnyj.
(War is not a democracy btw. And there is a war in Ukraine, but they cannot tell you)
|
|
|
|
The war in Ukraine. Total estimated losses of the Russian occupation forces for 116 days (19.06.22)
~ 33600 (+250) In the personnel
~ 1000 Prisoners
216 Aircraft
181 (+1) Helicopters
1468 (+3) Tanks
3577 (+4) BBM
745 (+6) Artillery systems
98 Air Defense Means
235 (+2) MLRS
2523 (+10) Automotive equipment and fuel tanks
14 Ships and boats
598 (+4) Operational and tactical UAVs
130 (+1) Cruise missiles
|
|
|
|
|
The Russian military has said it has deported more than 1.9 million people from Ukraine, including more than 307,000 children, since the full-scale invasion began, Interfax reported.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Konstantin Sobolev @ June 18th 2022,13:15:16 ) If you don't like a political party, then it should be banned.
Nah, it's more the ideology.
Imo, any political ideology that aims to change/remove democracy, should be banned.
The pillars of Democracy need to be better protected, so wannabe dictators like Putin, Trump, Orban, Erdogan, Duterte, LePen etc.. can not change the system, unless they get 80-90% of active national votes... (Not the parliamentary votes).
This need to be locked in place, as we have seen too many examples lately, where things change drastically after they cheat their way to power.
Democracy can die, in the darkness of hidden political acts.
I love life, but I am willing to die to protect our rights and will never ever, under any circumstance accept "a dear leader" situation in Europe and I dont give a flippin fook, where that "dear leader" comes from or how great he says he is.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#6250 Postado 19 Jun 2022, 10:19:42 (editado pela última vêz 19 Jun 2022, 10:32:27 por Ihor Rusnak)
|
Citar
|
In the last 10 days, in the reports of Russian news agencies and garbage no-name communities - although this is the same thing - you can find a similar phrase - "Donetsk is under unprecedented shelling." One would like to ask, what then happened all these eight years when the "Donbass was bombed"?
But the essence of the matter is different - now that Ukraine has received precision-guided projectiles, it is starting to fly to places where the rashists could not even think of. Over the past day, seven targeted strikes have destroyed seven military facilities within the city - mainly warehouses with ammunition and rare electronic warfare equipment that jammed signals in the direction of Snizhne.
But that's not all, in order to discredit the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Russian macaques, under this guise, organize provocations with heavy mortars - they shell the city themselves and pass it off as the work of the Armed Forces of Ukraine from 155mm NATO artillery. Sometimes they even use light mines, which leave a hole in the asphalt with a diameter of an average frying pan and also talk about 155 mm.
For example: in the video, which is filmed by a man from Donetsk, you can clearly hear the departure from the mortar and after 2-4 seconds, the explosed immediately. The speed of sound is 340 m/s - calculate the distance yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1hJwXatKDs
They fire at themselves, and then a film crew miraculously appears in a minute and the next plot "Donbass was bombed" is ready.
As a result, the new weapon allows Ukraine to hit supply centers, logistics and REB stations, which has not happened in all these 8 years. This is far from a turning point in the war, but it is obvious that such targets will continue to be hit - the next meat processing plant in Donetsk - a Russian military base is organized there - they thought that no one would guess, but remember - Donbass has Ukrainian eyes.
upd: the remnants of radar warfare equipment were relocated to Bauman Street in Donetsk, to the south, they think what not get you there. Moods, m**********s.
|
|
|
|
=== Moldovan President Maia Sandu signed a law banning the country from rebroadcasting news and analytical programs, as well as military films from the Russian Federation.
=== Two weeks ago, Lithuania announced that it was transferring all its schools to the Lithuanian language of instruction.
=== Ukraine completely removes from the school curriculum:
Ivan Krylov's fables, stories by A. Chekhov, Bunin, epics about Ilya Muromets - it is proposed to study simply ballads, Bykov's story "Alpine Ballad", A. Green "Scarlet Sails", works by Lermontov and Pushkin, Bulgakov "Dog heart", "Master and Margarita", Belyaev "Amphibian Man", Troepolsky "White Bim Gray Ear", Griboedov "Woe from Wit", all the works of Dostoevsky - "The Idiot", "Crime and Punishment", "The Brothers Karamazov", Tolstoy "Anna Karenina", "War and Peace", works by Yesenin and Gumilyov , works by Mandelstam, Bulat Okudzhava, Sholokhov, Ilf and Petrov "12 chairs", works by Nekrasov and Kuprin, Tarkovsky and Tsvetaeva, works by Blok, Mayakovsky, Pasternak, Akhmatova.
I would like to draw your attention to the fact that all these works of Russian literature were in the school curriculum - this is a lie about the infringement of Russian culture in Ukraine after 2014. But now everything will change. Well, russians, do you like flowers?
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Atli Thor Johannesson @ June 19th 2022,10:19:42 )
Nah, it's more the ideology.
Imo, any political ideology that aims to change/remove democracy, should be banned.
The pillars of Democracy need to be better protected, so wannabe dictators like Putin, Trump, Orban, Erdogan, Duterte, LePen etc.. can not change the system, unless they get 80-90% of active national votes... (Not the parliamentary votes).
This need to be locked in place, as we have seen too many examples lately, where things change drastically after they cheat their way to power.
Democracy can die, in the darkness of hidden political acts.
I love life, but I am willing to die to protect our rights and will never ever, under any circumstance accept "a dear leader" situation in Europe and I dont give a flippin fook, where that "dear leader" comes from or how great he says he is. It's just wonderful. Write more often. It's a beautiful text. I like it so much that it's hard for me to add anything. You said it all yourself. I give a standing ovation.
If "democracy" is under threat, then any parties can be banned. Trump is a threat to democracy, so you can fake the election results. Trump came to power by deception, but Biden didn't? But what to do with the 50% of the US population who voted for Trump? Should they also be banned? Putin can't ban political parties, but European countries can. And only because there is a "totalitarian regime" in Russia, and "democracy" in Europe.
It's time for you to introduce a new term. "Dictatorship of democracy" or "totalitarian democracy".
Again, it all boils down to the fact that international law does not exist. There is no democracy here. There are only interests of a group of people.
Then let's do it differently. There is democracy in Russia. And Navalny, Khodarkovsky and others pose a threat to democracy. And Ukraine is a threat to democracy. Well, because it was decided in Russia.
|
|
|
|
|
I think the title says it all: Russia has attacked Ukraine!
Otherwise, the talks are useless, as long as the war has started, it destroys lives, property and the peace of an entire world.
There is no money for health, food and aid for poor countries. There is no money for greening the planet. But there is money for hatred, for the thirst to conquer new territories. In vain we look for explanations, reasons. Instead of commenting unnecessarily, try to put yourself in the shoes of those who suffer for at least a minute.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Konstantin Sobolev @ June 19th 2022,14:08:02 ) If "democracy" is under threat, then any parties can be banned.
Absolutely... As it is the foundation of democracy that gives people their rights.
Without those foundations, the right to vote to choose who leads the country can disappear (or become meaningless like in Russia).. e.g. democracy has to be protected by all means.
I understand you don't get it, as you live under a dictator, where your rights depend on the mood of said dictator and his cronies.
If enough voters in a democracy choose a wannabe dictator like Trump, then he can sit for 8 years, if reelected... but he can't change the system so he can sit forever, like a dictator,, like Putin.. who keeps extending his stay...
If the said dictator is on "your side", you are all happy inside, banning gays in public, but if the dictator is gay and forces you to be gay, then you will hate it.. right?
Here, we have a choice, to pick whatever party,, but the parties should under no circumstance be allowed to change the fundamentals of democracy.
|
|
|
|
Democracy rests on three fundamental principles: collective decision-making, the fundamental right of every individual to make those decisions, and the defense of the first two principles by acceptable means.
They want to take away all three from Ukraine - after all, Moscow will decide for us, none of the Ukrainian citizens will be able to make decisions, since Russia does not know the word "elections", and, obviously, Ukraine will not have the opportunity to build an army for our defence in case of defeat.
Defending ourselves, we defend the fundamental principles on which European culture has been built since ancient times. The power of one person - that is, freedom as permissiveness - is a product of Eastern despotism and a brief period of absolute monarchies in Europe, which ended with bourgeois revolutions. Russia is stuck in the 17th century - both mentally using the right of force, and not the force of law and politically - having built a vertical of autocracy power.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Ihor Rusnak @ June 19th 2022,16:10:10 )
Democracy rests on three fundamental principles: collective decision-making, the fundamental right of every individual to make those decisions, and the defense of the first two principles by acceptable means. Did you come up with the third principle yourself?) we take any country. If it is loyal to the West, then whatever it does, we call it democracy and defend its political governance by any means. If the state is not loyal to the West, then we call it anti-democracy and try to destroy political (and any) life in this country by any means. All this is collectively called international law.
Quote ( Ihor Rusnak @ June 19th 2022,10:51:15 ) Well, russians, do you like flowers? This is a dead end. Far-sighted countries behave quite differently.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Konstantin Sobolev @ June 19th 2022,17:31:58 ) we take any country
We can see what you mean by that!!
Quote ( Liviu Sandu @ June 19th 2022,15:11:19 ) I think the title says it all: Russia has attacked Ukraine!
I agree, why do they still try to justify the war, the invasion and the killing of innocent people, woman and children! The barbarian way that never gave solutions to any problem!
I do believe we are a collective failure of mankind! In the eyes of the Maker!
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Konstantin Sobolev @ June 19th 2022,17:31:58 ) Did you come up with the third principle yourself?)
Is it news for you that a person has the right to protect his rights - the right to life, the right to property, the right to elect and be elected, and so on - with the help of the means available to him within the framework of the law? And the law is a collective agreement between members of society, which is binding on all members of the community.
Quote ( Konstantin Sobolev @ June 19th 2022,17:31:58 ) All this is collectively called international law.
You keep repeating the same conspiracy theory over and over again. But if you rely on the right of the strong - why are you all together howling about Russophobia? After all, according to your logic - who is stronger - he is right.
I argue that international law is the only thing that keeps the world from the state when war was considered the norm - from a return to the Middle Ages. And Russia is one of those countries that constantly violates international law, thereby putting the world, which is beneficial for everyone, on the brink of destruction.
Quote ( Konstantin Sobolev @ June 19th 2022,17:31:58 ) This is a dead end. Far-sighted countries behave quite differently.
Ukraine all these years tried "not to anger Russia, otherwise Putin will attack" - as a result, Russia weakened my country as much as possible and attacked in 2014 without declaring war.
Here's a fresh example for you - the words of Kassym-Jomart Tokayev about quasi-states in the east of Ukraine caused a real hysteria in Russia. Let me remind you that he told Putn to his face that Kazakhstan does not recognize the "DNR" and "LNR".
Here is the reaction of your parliamentarian:
“We are everywhere and everywhere, including in relation to Ukraine, we say: if we have friendship, cooperation and partnership, then no territorial issues are raised. And if not, then everything is possible. As in the case of Ukraine. Therefore, it seems to me that it would be worth paying attention to this side of the matter in Kazakhstan and not only, ”, said Konstantin Zatulin, State Duma deputy and deputy chairman of the CIS Affairs Committee.
In continuation of the Kazakh theme - today Russia has stopped pumping Kazakh oil. This is what an offended Putin looks like. Ukraine, as a far-sighted country now, is trying to do everything so that this does not happen in the future.
Friendship with Russia is the only way to nowhere. For "to be friends" with Russia is to indulge its cannibalistic plans, otherwise tomorrow you yourself may be eaten by Russia.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Konstantin Sobolev @ June 19th 2022,17:31:58 ) If the state is not loyal to the West, then we call it anti-democracy and try to destroy political
No.
If a dictator/authoritarian tries to "make it look like" to the outside world, that the country has democracy, but in fact does the opposite, we call them for what they are.
If they break enough human rights on their own population, we try to make them stop, by applying sanctions.
If they on the other hand also act like Russia/China and attack other nations it's a bigger problem.
The civilized part of the world is trying to deal with that problem at the moment!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Ihor Rusnak @ June 19th 2022,18:11:53 )
The civilized part of the world is trying to deal with that problem at the moment! Call a spade a spade. Don't be shy. the "civilized world" is upper-class people, and the rest of the world is second-class people who themselves cannot figure out how to live.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Konstantin Sobolev @ June 19th 2022,18:40:13 ) Call a spade a spade. Don't be shy. the "civilized world" is upper-class people, and the rest of the world is second-class people who themselves cannot figure out how to live.
Yes lets do that, Russia is an aggressive dictatorial state.. that´s calling a spade a spade
I mean Civilized as in attempting to treat all human beings humanely, as equals.
|
|
|
|
I have a question to Ukranian leaders. You have the right to battle aw long you wish. But, you have not the right to transfer the war in the cities without let the non-military personnel go away. If you have the military power that you claim, go outside the cities or residential areas and fight. Otherwise, you are the responsible of the civilian deaths.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#6263 Postado 19 Jun 2022, 20:53:28 (editado pela última vêz 19 Jun 2022, 21:02:58 por Denny Holt)
|
Citar
|
Quote ( Dimitrios Mitsos @ June 19th 2022,19:21:31 ) I have a question to Ukranian leaders. You have the right to battle aw long you wish. But, you have not the right to transfer the war in the cities without let the non-military personnel go away. If you have the military power that you claim, go outside the cities or residential areas and fight. Otherwise, you are the responsible of the civilian deaths.
You, sir, are a military genius! Obviously fighting in the open, devoid of any protective cover, against an enemy who has a marked superiority in artillery and airpower is the best course.
Ever heard of a small, quaint Russian village called Stalingrad?
Russia is responsible for all of the deaths that occur as a result, both direct and indirect, of a war that it started.
The same holds true for every country in the world, including my own.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Dimitrios Mitsos @ June 19th 2022,19:21:31 ) You have the right to battle aw long you wish. But, you have not the right to transfer the war in the cities without let the non-military personnel go away.
Oh, God.
In your question, apart from everything, there is a false statement. Ukraine does not keep civilians in cities that are in the war zone, intentionally. Evacuation is carried out as long as it is possible.
If the city is not defended, then Russia will simply capture them and fire from there, as has been happening in Kherson now and Donetsk since 2014.
Russia, as an aggressor country, is responsible for all deaths in Ukraine.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Dimitrios Mitsos @ June 19th 2022,19:21:31 ) I have a question to Ukranian leaders. You have the right to battle aw long you wish. But, you have not the right to transfer the war in the cities without let the non-military personnel go away. If you have the military power that you claim, go outside the cities or residential areas and fight. Otherwise, you are the responsible of the civilian deaths.
Unfortunately, you have fallen victim to Russian propaganda! Ukrainian troops, unlike Russian ones, never covered themselves with civilians and never fired on civilians! This is exactly the cynicism of Putin's occupiers and propagandists - they blame their opponents for what they are doing! One of their tactics is to put artillery between civilian buildings and shoot at civilians! It has been proven more than once that the Russians shelled Donetsk, blaming the Ukrainian troops for it! Residents of Donetsk know all this and present video evidence of Russian crimes! With an extensive system of propaganda television, they mislead both Russians and Europeans! Therefore, it is important to close all Russian channels of deception!
|
|
|
|
⚡️ The New York Times has identified more than 2,000 munitions used in Ukraine by the Russian army since the start of the war and concluded that most of them were unguided.
At the same time, according to journalists, 210 identified ammunition is prohibited by international treaties.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Denny Holt @ June 19th 2022,20:53:28 ) Ever heard of a small, quaint Russian village called Stalingrad? Such was the ruthless Soviet Union. The Soviet Union was destroying people. (in your opinion). In your opinion, is the Ukrainian government doing the same? I just want to understand - for you, is the Soviet Union an example of courage or an example of the destruction of people? And then a counter question arises - is the Ukrainian government an example of the destruction of people? The Ukrainian government simply does not feel sorry for the city in the east of Ukraine.
|
|
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Română
Italiano
Português
Français
Polski
Русский
Български
Македонски
Српски
Nederlands
Vlaams
Suomi
Lietuvių
Čeština
Magyar
Eesti keel
Slovenčina
Türkçe
Shqip
Ελληνικά
Hrvatski
Bahasa Melayu
Dansk
Pirate
This topic is loosely moderated due to its nature. If you read or post in it you accept it is a sensitive topic with opposing and sometimes harsh views. Forum moderators cannot be the judge in who is right or wrong or who is lying or telling the truth. Reader discretion is advised!
