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Thema: Current situation and GPRO's future |
1935 Antworten
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I think that the game needs to remain a long-term planning game with low risk factor, favouring the ones who make the best decisions long-term...
Driver energy has increased the luck factor and in conjunction with the tyres peak temp makes higher leagues unpleasant in the long-term...
This has nothing to do with the wayy rookies or amateur guys play the game.
However, if a newcommer sees old school guys retiring he may rethink commiting time and thought in the game.
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Quote ( Ioannis Dimitroglou @ May 12th 2017,10:07:46 ) I think that the game needs to remain a long-term planning game with low risk factor, favouring the ones who make the best decisions long-term...
Thumb up :-)
Quote ( Ioannis Dimitroglou @ May 12th 2017,10:07:46 ) Driver energy has increased the luck factor
Thumb down ;-)
Quote ( Ioannis Dimitroglou @ May 12th 2017,10:07:46 ) However, if a newcommer sees old school guys retiring he may rethink commiting time and thought in the game.
Old school players are retiring all the time. Some are getting bored. Some are growing up. Of course a triple champion retiring from the game will always cause discussions about his reasons, but it's absolutely normal that people are leaving.
The bigger problem is that there are less & less newcomers.
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I've not been directly affected by Driver Energy since returning to the game, but it strikes me as a pretty terrible feature. Can see why many are upset by it (and, frankly, can't really understand why anyone likes it)
I'm not as excited by the prospect of heading back to Pro and Master as I would have previously been. Setting up to manage DE isn't 'fun', it's just a hard limit on strategy leading to pretty binary choices
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Oldschool players leave all games all the time. The key to success for a gaming platform is to ensure incoming out paces out-going and this is where clever thinking is required to try maximize positive exposure.
Spending large sums of money don't guarantee success. Simply plugging in a large advertising budget doesn't necessarily, and quite possibly won't, automatically transfer into success.
The new race screen offers not just a new gaming experience, but should it work, and prove popular, it will generate needed exposure itself.
On top of that, some attention needs be given to ironing out the new player experience. Another strong source of exposure is tapping into that early excitement, where the game features, and experience get any body finding the site 'wanting' to share it with friends. Having a clunky, unfriendly to new players rules and gameplay setup is counterintuitive, which is something I do believe this game suffers from quite alot, but at the same time, fixing wouldn't require dumbing down or hurting amatuer or higher at all.
The painful experiences, random new drivers, inadequate guidance through gameplay when first joining, this are all forms of exposure that negatively 'advertise' the game. Just because somebody has joined, that doesn't mean the advertising etc stops, and moves on. The first few experiences are all part of the 1s impression, part of the basic advertising, and I do feel, currently, the 1st time rookie experience has alot to do with the tensions about game future.
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Quote ( Jukka Sireni @ May 12th 2017,09:58:50 ) Yeah, the race screen probably has less meaning for those who are already used to old screen, but are bored for some reason. But if coupled with some marketing, it might get some new players and help retaining them. If not, then at least it has been fun to code it.
In all fairness i don't see anyone like toygun to name one return because of the live race screen
Quote ( Ioannis Dimitroglou @ May 12th 2017,10:07:46 ) Driver energy has increased the luck factor and in conjunction with the tyres peak temp makes higher leagues unpleasant in the long-term...
This is the biggest issue, the driver energy thing is not completely terrible but it has some flaws which should be solved within a short period, if not the game will suffer even more
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Driver energy has stopped the stupid risks that were being used in lower leagues, I have no problem with it, and some old time players leave because they have done all they can, they are champs one time or more. I guess the challenge becomes less. Not all of those leaving are because of that though.
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Quote ( Kirsty Ridley @ May 12th 2017,11:19:08 ) Driver energy has stopped the stupid risks that were being used in lower leagues, I have no problem with it, and some old time players leave because they have done all they can, they are champs one time or more. I guess the challenge becomes less. Not all of those leaving are because of that though.
I don't really get why high risks in low leagues are seen as stupid. There's tonnes of money available in Amateur - why shouldn't you be expected to use it to go faster?
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because it leaves you nowhere to go when you get to higher leagues, you are under the impression you are doing well, then when more exp players raise their risks when they hit pro, and again in master.. you have no where to go so will never be able to compete. Ends up that others in rookie or ama need to run similar to compete, and so they struggle too if they are in a group with a high risk group leading. Costs more for the same outcome, and teaches no real money management for the rest of the game, Well, maybe that's just me lol.
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Managers already have to get car levels and driver on a par with the level above before promoting, why not run similar risks? Last time I promoted from Pro (a long time ago, admittedly) I didn't score points below 70CT (or win below 100CT), and still coped OK in Master. You don't need speed in reserve, you just need speed.
Re money management, what doesn't teach good money management is an Amateur level that gives you more than you can spend, allowing you to cruise to promotion on less than half risks. Then hitting real money management challenges as you hit higher levels.
As for the strugglers (which ties in to manager retention), I can't see how acting against people with shit drivers being able to go crazy on the risks to get a bit of glory is likely to keep people playing. In the past not knowing about what made a good driver didn't stop you getting some points: just max out CT. You won't accidentally promote to Pro that way as it's a bit unsustainable, but you can still enjoy yourself. Now, you're just screwed, rooted to the back of the pack.
It's a real shame, to be honest.
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Quote ( Kirsty Ridley @ May 12th 2017,11:19:08 ) Driver energy has stopped the stupid risks that were being used in lower leagues, I have no problem with it, and some old time players leave because they have done all they can, they are champs one time or more. I guess the challenge becomes less. Not all of those leaving are because of that though.
For lowers groups it was a gift but the flaws in the system are mainly in the master and elite groups.
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#1751 geschrieben Mai 12 2017, 12:07:14 (letzte Änderung Mai 12 2017, 12:10:44 von Luke Frost)
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I've been here for almost 3 days and 13 hours (47th minute, to be precise) and I have a breakthrough. Yes, a groundbreaking discovery that this game needs so badly to be successful. As a token of my humble gratitude for the game existing, I'll also explain the things that are wrong with the game.
There should be a safety car. There should be weather which matches the real-time weather. There should be a tutorial as soon as you sign up. There should be a private league. There should be free takeaway meals at our nearest corner shop to encourage us into buying supporter credits.
Based on my fresh mindset regarding the game, I think the gap between races should not be 3-4 days. Instead, it should be 3-4 hours. Having one car per manager is ridiculous. Ahmet Sonverdi's beard is really hairy and it affect my driver's performance because he can't grow a beard. When he tries, it become curly and pokes him back in his face. Also, it's bright red, even though his hair is a strawberry blond. It's a rough life for my driver. The points system needs to become NEW and follow the new F1 system of 25-18-15-12-10-8-6-4-2-1. The current format is really bad because even Adrian Sutil could score points with that format, and everyone knows he couldn't beat n anorexic gold digger in a pie eating contest, let alone score a point in the man's point system.
Nehhhhh......
I don't care what's wrong with GPRO. I'm still going to play even if my motivation ain't there like it used to be......
This is Luke Frost and I may not race 50% of my next 5 races.
:D
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Quote ( Andrew Watson @ May 12th 2017,10:32:22 ) I've not been directly affected by Driver Energy since returning to the game, but it strikes me as a pretty terrible feature. Can see why many are upset by it (and, frankly, can't really understand why anyone likes it)
I'm not as excited by the prospect of heading back to Pro and Master as I would have previously been. Setting up to manage DE isn't 'fun', it's just a hard limit on strategy leading to pretty binary choices
I didn't experience the top leagues before energy, but I can say that energy management has given me a huge headache this season. Do I work on my driver or do I push to get a better result and be more comfortable in the standings? For me, it's added an extra layer to the game and allowed me to be better (or worse) than my competitors on another level (i.e. managing cts and driver training). It still allows for people to go silly in the short term by just running spa, but they have to be slightly more intelligent than monkeys with typewriters to work out what the max cts they can afford to run are.
Maybe it's a case of not knowing anything better, but I'm personally in favor of the system, at least up until master. Hopefully I'll get to give an opinion on what it's like in Elite soon.
Also, 100ct was a hard limit to strategy in the old days. Was the game not "fun" when you couldn't run 140ct?
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Quote ( Sam Wainwright @ May 12th 2017,12:25:25 )
Also, 100ct was a hard limit to strategy in the old days. Was the game not "fun" when you couldn't run 140ct?
'Hard Limit' was probably not the best way of putting it.
Really, what I'm talking about - if we take Pro, for now - is that in the past to run near the front you could use maximum risks and, say, level 5 parts or you could run lower risks and level 6 parts for the same sort of race pace. The way part wear is calculated makes changes in risks nearer to 100CT much more 'interesting' than changes in risks down at 50CT, and means you've got a couple of ways of doing things there (there are lots of other considerations as to which way is best,which factor into your decision).
With DE, CT is limited much lower, meaning those 'interesting' part wear effects are removed, and the strategy choice is much more obvious and, therefore, reduces choice.
I should think the effect would be similar in Master, though less so in Elite.
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What I also like is that DE helps negate the huge bank balances from Amatuer to some degree, as you can't just steamroll on 100ct anymore cause you can afford it with your 200million from ama. From watching Pro now to my couple seasons in it, it seems to have really helped take the edge off a bit as far as that is concerned, making it more about strategy and management and a little less about amatuer cashflow.
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Quote ( Luke Frost @ May 12th 2017,12:07:14 ) There should be free takeaway meals at our nearest corner shop
This please.
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Quote ( MG van Rensburg @ May 12th 2017,12:43:16 ) What I also like is that DE helps negate the huge bank balances from Amatuer to some degree, as you can't just steamroll on 100ct anymore cause you can afford it with your 200million from ama. From watching Pro now to my couple seasons in it, it seems to have really helped take the edge off a bit as far as that is concerned, making it more about strategy and management and a little less about amatuer cashflow.
Well, you can still fight for promotion if you're willing to throw 360M down the drain in 2 seasons I guess.
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Quote ( MG van Rensburg @ May 12th 2017,12:43:16 ) What I also like is that DE helps negate the huge bank balances from Amatuer to some degree, as you can't just steamroll on 100ct anymore cause you can afford it with your 200million from ama. From watching Pro now to my couple seasons in it, it seems to have really helped take the edge off a bit as far as that is concerned, making it more about strategy and management and a little less about amatuer cashflow.
Don't people just invest their cash in higher level parts/car levels? And if not, why not?
I'm a long time removed from the game, so forget the sort of part/car levels that were the norm back before DE, but car levels certainly look higher now than I think I remember them being (?)
Also, I know I was running 70+ CT for most of the season last time I was fresh into Pro from Amateur: Coupled with a modest Sponsor income (approx $17mil) I still only finished the season around $10m down on where I started it - which doesn't seem like I was particularly throwing my cash around - are things much different to that now?
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on the other hand no matter what change is implemented, you will always have happy people and unhappy people
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Car lvls are pretty much the same as they were I feel. Regardless of bank balance, running higher than certain lvls is just bad regardless. There are still gains from high bank balances, such as being able to catch up with testing vs retaining managers, but that seems like potentially something you want to keep things balanced or else promoters generally will always struggle with inferior packages.
With regards to CT lvls. Things had started to get pretty ridiculous in Ama and Pro by the time DE arrived.
Limiting the CT at lower lvls, for me anyway, and from experiences shared from friends, seems to really helped to make it alot more about car, driver and CT management, rather than just getting to a point where you can carry over enough finances to push 100ct every race.
There is a point where, thanks to implied CT restriction of DE, that no matter how much money you have, it doesn't unlock 'bonus' features other ppl in pro wouldn't have anyway by virtue of having been there longer. It just feels like not being able to just spam 100ct anymore has really opened things up, made it more challenging in the right direction.
Can't speak about Elite, but the experiences of friends in Pro and Master and comparing results to my own previous Pro experiences, seems like DE has at least has a positive impact on Pro, which I personally feel, will lead to longterm net gains for the higher leagues, at least my limited logic has me hoping so.
As Sam says, sure, there are still some options to blow the money on, but not being able to do it on CT anymore, feels like the most practical and sensible option.
The gaming world has been going in a certain direction from before Gpro even arrived. It seems illogical for the game design to constantly push against the grain, rather than embrace the developments which have helped improve overall gameplay in market, which in itself has helped grow the gaming market substantially.
Creating 'soft' tiers to match the lvls in the game makes sense and matches the general game direction of gaming industry has been going for about a decade now. And as much as it means change for us older players, it doesn't restrict the number of strategy options, it just changes which 5 of the multititude are now playable. Making the options more about racing strategy, management etc, seems like a step in the right direction.
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That's a nice post MG. I'll try to stay open-minded about it. Perhaps it offers as much opportunity for disruptive/asymmetric strategy as it takes away. I've not experienced it yet, after all :)
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That doesn't mean there isn't plenty of room for improvement in the application of DE system. The idea behind it seems great, but yes, at times, the application seems unfinished, too simplified in that it misses out on a lot of intuitive design space which I do believe would greatly benefit the DE system if it were to be tapped into in the future as time and data help plug holes and offer guidance.
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I'm with MG on this, it was getting ridiculous in Ama having to compete against people with inferior packages who were running 100ct. You may say that if your package was good enough that shouldn't be a problem but different managers would be running those risks at different times so in a promotion season you would be fighting different managers all season long who didn't have to worry about the long term effect on their plans. I like the effect DE has had in Ama, can't speak for Pro and above though.
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Quote ( David Andrewartha @ May 12th 2017,12:46:13 ) Quote ( Luke Frost @ May 12th 2017,12:07:14 )
There should be free takeaway meals at our nearest corner shop
This please.
It's the best thing since uber, right???
Ignored 'til now.. 🤔🤔
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After lookin at the next race, I hope a Meteorologist is in GPRO's future.
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Quote ( MG van Rensburg @ May 12th 2017,13:14:30 ) Can't speak about Elite, but the experiences of friends in Pro and Master and comparing results to my own previous Pro experiences, seems like DE has at least has a positive impact on Pro, which I personally feel, will lead to longterm net gains for the higher leagues
Seconded
I think that the true effects of DE will start to emerge some time during the next (let's say) 10 seasons
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I still belive managers who relegated to rookie should not be put into the same group as people who are starting fresh. So IMO there should be two "rookie" classes maybe call one "freshmen" or something. Mixing relegated managers together with real rookies is just annoying for both of them and does not reflect the base of knowledge in most times. For relegated amateurs often is i just bad luck or some mistakes not being able to stay in ama.
finally i've manged to stay in amateur and as it looks i have found the twist of managing finances and car-development, however if i woudl have to relegate again to rookie, i would quit the game, as it is just another boring "starting all over" season.
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I do see your point, and super rookies are a real issue and it bugs me when people go back to rookie on purpose when there's no need, and it's certainly an issue.
My argument is though, would that not create equal amounts of frustration for managers who, for example, promoted to amateur before being anywhere near ready, relegated to rookie and then found themselves outclassed again in this new non freshmen rookie by people who've been up there a few times and now have more experience than them?
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I like in principle what Marcel suggests. With the limited number of rookie promotion spots and the reduced amount of amateur relegation places (compared to higher groups) it's likely easier to retain in amateur than promote from rookie.
The sooner new players get into amateur the better it is for them from a game playing perspective with the amateur groups being far more active in terms of the number of people you are playing against.
If a more experienced manager was planning on relegating to rookie to start over it would be a nice/tougher challenge for them to actually get out of rookie if up against similar experienced managers. Might actually make them think twice about the relegation in the first place.
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Seasoned veteran's relegating/staying in rookie indefinitely is certainly an issue.
Perhaps making use of the rookie group numbers as an additional tiered system could help alleviate the impact it has on new player experience.
Grouping of managers within the groups could perhaps be set on seasons experience to some degree, to seperate genuine inexperienced rookies to super rookies in order to safe guard the new player experience from both not being scared away by super rookies as well as not getting a false impression of their competitiveness/knowledge and getting put off by an promotion that shouldn't happen as have no relevant marker to compare to within their group as no balance/system to allocation of managers to groups.
0 seasons - Compeletely new player
1-2 seasons - Inexperienced player
3-5 seasons - Semi-experienced
6+ seasons - Experienced, but not a super rookie
10+ seasons - Super rookie
The game can then allocate rookies to groups based on experience lvls that match experience lvls in order to keep the Super rookies etc seperate and away from ruining the new player experience without creating a false sense of acheivement for new players.
Rookie tier 1: Super rookies
Rookie tier 2: Super rookies/Experienced
Rookie tier 3: Experienced/Semi-experienced/Inexperienced/Completely new
The experienced 'tier' of rookies can be used to balance numbers between super rookie groups and non-super rookie to ensure full groups for most experienced rookies.
Basically, a tier system within the tier system for rookie. The allocation of rookies within groups would be balanced in Rookie Tier 3, where every group gets a share of 'experienced and semi-experienced' to go with new players. Kind of like how groups are selected for various sporting world cups / champion leagues etc.
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I also think Marcels idea is has some excellent benefits as mentioned by David, the tier system also has merit, but then starts to be complicated.
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