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Thema: [Mafia] Medical Mafia II (GAME OVER) |
1524 Antworten
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On balance I'd say town are fairly bad in GPRO mafia games :)
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I’d be inclined to agree. It was an issue of balance in my game, as it probably was in this one. In both cases town still lost, which I would say vindicates these decisions made in the grey area.
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I guess it's a bit like 'the referee kept awarding the other team penalty kicks for no reason, but they were so shit we still beat them'
the truth hurts I guess :)
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Town of Salem is a lot harder than Mafia here. ;)
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How could you do that to me in your first game as mafia? I thought we were friends :(
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You left me in a WhatsApp group with a bunch of tits, you got what you deserved
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James let's be honest, you played the newbie card way too much, I'm surprised everyone left you alone and didn't push much except the start of D2 which was expected and you had chance to prepare yourself :P
Official Vote Count 1.1
Ivelin Dobrev (0)
Ricardo Antunes (5) - Ivelin, Geir, Kirsty, Mike, Eduardo
Geir Pukk (0)
Jarno van Audenhoven (1) - Andre
Armin van Hülkenburg (2) - Ricardo, Tim
Tim Wagner (0)
Jimmy De Roy (0)
Mike Baston (0)
Vladimir Valis (0)
Eduardo Sanchez Carenzo (0)
Phil Maunder (0)
Andre de Carvalho (0)
Kirsty Ridley (0)
Not voting (5) - Jarno, Armin, Jimmy, Vladimir, Phil |
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The newbie card was the obvious excuse to get away with little mistakes. My d-1 blunder was unfortunately genuinely due to my phone dying at work. :/
I think Phil helped people stay away from me tbh
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Should have gone with targetting James rather than George on N1. I had that thought but I didn't press on it.
I think I was right not to be modkilled but I accept that it did look annoying for scum. However, I only went by formatting and the role PMs on the link which didn't match up which is something anyone could have done irregardless of alignment.
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Tim was never a mod kill.
Quote ( Tim Wagner @ July 27th 2020,15:13:46 ) I only went by formatting and the role PMs on the link which didn't match up which is something anyone could have done irregardless of alignment.
Yeah, Tim could easily have been scum trying to go for the free town cred in this case.
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Quote ( Sudeep Pednekar @ July 27th 2020,10:20:58 ) One thing which should be changed from the standard rule set, is that modkills should not end the day regardless of which alignment gets modkilled. Taking away a lynch from town & giving mafia a free kill isn't optimal.
And taking away a mafia kill and give town a free flip to work things out is also not optimal if town was the one modkilled. They it should have a disadvantage, which is why town modkills ends the day and scum modkills don't If scum is modkilled then the day goes on and town had a free scumflip. Which is why the general rule is that town modkills end the day and scum modkills don't. In this case, if we had a double modkill then i would agree to keep the day going regardless.
Quote ( Sudeep Pednekar @ July 27th 2020,15:19:58 ) Tim was never a mod kill.
Quote ( Tim Wagner @ July 27th 2020,15:13:46 ) I think I was right not to be modkilled but I accept that it did look annoying for scum. However, I only went by formatting and the role PMs on the link which didn't match up which is something anyone could have done irregardless of alignment.
Quote ( Max Watson @ July 27th 2020,12:09:05 ) I’d be inclined to agree. It was an issue of balance in my game, as it probably was in this one. In both cases town still lost, which I would say vindicates these decisions made in the grey area.
I beg to disagree with you gentleman though i can see your point of view. However let me try to explain my own.
Mafia is an information game and how you utilize the info available is vital to how it plays out, so anything outside the game that could have a potential impact on people’s decisions is game braking. We scum targeting Tim proves the point to be fair. If you just consider that his slip was enough to get 1 person alone in the game to town read him then it’s broken, and if scum is paranoid about it and decided to take him out because of that it’s a decision driven by outside forces of the game and it’s broken.
You could always argue that the role pms were in the wiki page and so Tim could be scum gambitting, but that changes nothing honestly. If that was the case then Jimmy didn’t have to be modkilled either because it could also be a scum plot (Tim even thought it was).
If Tim or Jimmy were scum in a gambitt they should have been modkilled either way. You can’t clear yourself up or be able to wifom people around with stuff that shouldn’t even be there to start with. It’s dirty wifom and against the spirit of the game.
Now i’m not crucifying Tim here, it’s not such a huge issue in his case, but he should have been modkilled anyway. And it goes beyond who won or lost. Scum won anyway but we could have lost it if we had 1 less bait available.
I like planning my path of victory when i’m scum and i like finding out scum’s plan to victory when i’m town, and if planning fails because of things that should not be a part of the game then you were sabotaged. I think we were sabotaged twice in this game.
This also has nothing to do with Seb himself who did a good job in his first modding experience in a hard game. But there should be a lesson to the future. How will this be handled the next time? I do agree that we should always have the role pm in the thread to avoid what hapenned, but if someone else brakes the game in a similar way i think it has to be default modkill. If in doubt you just modkill and move on. That is my opinion at least.
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Quote ( Andre de Carvalho @ July 27th 2020,18:01:43 ) And taking away a mafia kill and give town a free flip to work things out is also not optimal if town was the one modkilled.
It's not taking away a kill tho.
A town mod kill which keeps the day going, 7v2 becomes 6v2 in this case & you need one less mislynch to win the game. Adding a benefit of scum getting to kill whoever tf they want isn't fair.
Yes town has "more" info but they also lost another day in essence.
Modkills should not affect day & night phases.
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I think town played well. Of curse Sagar and Jimmy didn't help that much, but the others all played a good game i think. Had George taken Lech down on D3 instead of Tom and we would have had a harder time. Lech would flip town and our hopes would be just clear James with that, so people would link me to Tom and Tom would be the new bait. However, i know a lot of people would be inclined to lynching me first, so James would have a good chance of winning but he would have to face a 2vs1 lylo in the last gameday and that's never comfortable. So it probably looked easier than it was.
I sucked immensely on D2 and that nearly screwed us lol, fortunately i was better later on and kept my shit together.
And our distancing was just perfect, people were viewing me and James as the least likely scum couple and that was very cool :D
And i still don't think i played anything like i did in HIMYM :P
Things i realize i like in mafia games:
- Twilights
- Being able to vote without an unvote. Especially on the phone.
Quote ( Lech Witarczyk @ July 27th 2020,10:31:38 ) From today, I'm calling Andre dickless.
Dick is fine thanks for looking after it :)
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Quote ( Sudeep Pednekar @ July 27th 2020,18:07:16 ) It's not taking away a kill tho.
A town mod kill which keeps the day going, 7v2 becomes 6v2 in this case & you need the same amount of mislynches to win the game. Adding a benefit of scum getting to kill whoever tf they want isn't fair.
Yes town has "more" info but they also lost another day in essence.
Modkills should not affect day & night phases.
That is not the standard agreement in other communities though. Needing 2 mislynches in a pool of 7 is a lot easier then in a pool of 6. And if you are planning a path you might just have it screwed and that would be an advantage to town. And the faction receiving the modkill should not be benefitted by it.
Think about it this way, if Jimmy got modkilled and the day didn't end, we would completly have missed the TimxJimmy narrative and would have to go back to the other narrative (LechxJames) and probably just lynch Lech and take Tim out in the next night. We would be at milo in the next day with Tom left as bait. We could still win of course, but path to victory is pretty tight in this case and town managed to win more than lose with that modkill. It's something that should not exploitable.
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Quote ( Andre de Carvalho @ July 27th 2020,18:01:43 ) if someone else brakes the game in a similar way i think it has to be default modkill.
You mention 'breaking the game' quite often, but it seems to me that there's more than one way for that to be done. Like, for example, the town side (already with the more difficult role to play in most setups) losing two players at once to a modkill in a small-ish game.
Anyone talking about a role PM damages the game, which is unfortunate, but it's possible for an over-zealous reprisal from the mod to do more harm than good. The spirit of the game, which you also mention, also bends in both ways. People want to play a balanced game and have fun, and sometimes (when a player puts their foot in it), this is achieved by the mod making a judgement call.
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Lesson from this whole incident: don't bring up your Role PMs. You kill the game.
I think Seb took the decision that kept the game going somehow. Had he modkilled both Jimmy and Tim, it would help scum a lot. Not modkilling either would help town too much.
Second lesson learned: when someone quotes their role PM, PM the mod and stop posting.
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Quote ( Max Watson @ July 27th 2020,18:22:36 ) You mention 'breaking the game' quite often, but it seems to me that there's more than one way for that to be done. Like, for example, the town side (already with the more difficult role to play in most setups) losing two players at once to a modkill in a small-ish game.
Anyone talking about a role PM damages the game, which is unfortunate, but it's possible for an over-zealous reprisal from the mod to do more harm than good. The spirit of the game, which you also mention, also bends in both ways. People want to play a balanced game and have fun, and sometimes (when a player puts their foot in it), this is achieved by the mod making a judgement call.
I understand. Maybe calling the game 'broken' is too hard. Maybe it was just damaged and it will be no matter what. It's probably impossible to find a consensus around that and it will have to be a mod decision that could go either way. I still think it's less of a damage if you modkill, but i understand that people may disagree.
So the next games should always have the role PMs in the thread to prevent this i suppose. It's the easier way.
And i also think Seb did a good job in acting fast and preventing further damage, it's not an easy decision.
By the way when will you play with us? :)
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I think the pm incident was handled fine tbh
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We should have simply followed Tim's rule...
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Told you it works against Newbies! Even though I didn't expect it myself ;p
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What the hell is a top 5 and mod multiplier if someone wouldn’t mind explaining :)
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You send Ivelin:
The best five players in your opinion (ranked from 1 to 5, excluding yourself). You also send a number between 1.0 and 2.0 which says how good of a job do you think Sebastian did.
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