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Themenumfrage
Are Avonns promotion-capable in Pro
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Thema: Avonns |
43 Antworten
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#31 geschrieben Feb 28 2021, 23:31:53
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Quote ( Ricardo Antunes @ February 28th 2021,15:21:35 ) Quote ( Vitaly Sevov @ February 28th 2021,14:52:25 )
Quote ( Vitaly Sevov @ February 27th 2021,18:51:31 )
Had anyone ever promoted with Pipi?
I ment from Pro to Master.
Too late, already answered your question.
Do you know what a context is? If you read all the previous posts here you might understand in which context my question was asked. I liked your first answer, nice sense of humor, but your second one was just the opposite to that.
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#32 geschrieben Mär 1 2021, 02:26:02
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Who peed in Vitaly Putin's borscht?
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#33 geschrieben Mär 1 2021, 03:17:31
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Quote ( Brad Marshall @ March 1st 2021,02:26:02 ) Who peed in Vitaly Putin's borscht?
I'm busted. It was me ;)
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#34 geschrieben Mär 1 2021, 04:49:29
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ February 27th 2021,11:21:04 ) um...I hope so
:o
I got that! :P
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#35 geschrieben Mär 1 2021, 06:31:10
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Somes managers promotes to Master with avonn
And one season, one promote with pipi (and not before S18)
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Season 48, group P-2. My teammate, Alen promoted on Avons together with one other guy.
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#37 geschrieben Mär 1 2021, 08:12:42
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Quote ( Brad Marshall @ March 1st 2021,02:26:02 ) Who peed in Vitaly Putin's borscht?
This is a job for Detective Miles!
Quote ( Ken Neihart @ March 1st 2021,03:17:31 ) Quote ( Brad Marshall @ March 1st 2021,02:26:02 )
Who peed in Vitaly Putin's borscht?
I'm busted. It was me ;)
Another case solved by Detective Miles!
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#38 geschrieben Mär 1 2021, 13:56:16
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Quote ( Brad Marshall @ March 1st 2021,02:26:02 ) Who peed in Vitaly Putin's borscht?
I like Borsh with Brad :)
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ February 27th 2021,17:27:41 )
From the current managers in promotion places in Pro, their percentile in expenditures in the league is 82% and for the common tyres there isn't any real difference in expenditures. Thus, the conclusion is clear: this isn't about tyres but about assets. If anything, data from Avonn show one requires considerably higher expenditures (93.5 percentile) than other managers with BY, Dunnos or Yokos (83 percentile) in order to be competitive enough (overall higher despite the savings produced by the cheaper Avonn).
Now another question would be: if someone's capable of promoting with Avonn, is it always a good choice to save on tyres ? I guess there's no clear answer to this (and I'm not looking for a clear answer either), but isn't it better to pick better tyres and maybe save money on the car throughout the season ? Or may both strategies be viable ?
Because if the answer to the original question "Are Avonns promotion-capable in Pro ?" is a big yes, the answer to "Are Avonns getting viable or more viable than more expensive tyres, to run for promotion in Pro ?" shouldn't be an automatic yes, otherwise they're a bit unbalanced ;) but right now from what I observe it looks like Avonns fill their "good retain tyre" role pretty well and not much more, especially that they need special conditions to get an advantage over Yoko/Dunno
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#40 geschrieben Mär 1 2021, 14:52:17
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Quote ( Stéphane Rombaux @ March 1st 2021,14:35:04 ) Quote ( Edwin Silva @ February 27th 2021,17:27:41 )
From the current managers in promotion places in Pro, their percentile in expenditures in the league is 82% and for the common tyres there isn't any real difference in expenditures. Thus, the conclusion is clear: this isn't about tyres but about assets. If anything, data from Avonn show one requires considerably higher expenditures (93.5 percentile) than other managers with BY, Dunnos or Yokos (83 percentile) in order to be competitive enough (overall higher despite the savings produced by the cheaper Avonn).
Now another question would be: if someone's capable of promoting with Avonn, is it always a good choice to save on tyres ? I guess there's no clear answer to this (and I'm not looking for a clear answer either), but isn't it better to pick better tyres and maybe save money on the car throughout the season ? Or may both strategies be viable ?
Because if the answer to the original question "Are Avonns promotion-capable in Pro ?" is a big yes, the answer to "Are Avonns getting viable or more viable than more expensive tyres, to run for promotion in Pro ?" shouldn't be an automatic yes, otherwise they're a bit unbalanced ;) but right now from what I observe it looks like Avonns fill their "good retain tyre" role pretty well and not much more, especially that they need special conditions to get an advantage over Yoko/Dunno
Totally agree with you.
My teammate promoted to Master last season on Avonns, while his initial objective was to retain in Pro.
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#41 geschrieben Mär 1 2021, 16:39:53
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Quote ( Stéphane Rombaux @ March 1st 2021,14:35:04 ) Now another question would be: if someone's capable of promoting with Avonn, is it always a good choice to save on tyres ? I guess there's no clear answer to this (and I'm not looking for a clear answer either), but isn't it better to pick better tyres and maybe save money on the car throughout the season ? Or may both strategies be viable ?
There are two ways to handle that question. One is looking at trends. Whereas data are scarce, the fact there is only 1 Avonn in 75 promotion places (1.3%) despite a 26.8% share is a strong indication of how underwhelming are Avonn for promotion (although this is skewed, because it's likely Avonn are more picked by poorer managers and by managers who aren't intending to promote in the first place). Plus the only Avonn in promotion places is spending considerably more (despite the savings by cheaper tyres) than his peers with Dunnos, Yokos or even the semi-luxury tyres for Pro income BYs, even tho being fielded by apparently one of the top drivers in the league. Those are important elements to question the effectiveness of Avonn as promotion tyres.
The other way is by pondering the intrinsic value of Avonn with respect to other tyres. This is, Avonn have performance handicap vs. Dunnos, BYs and Yokos, so one needs to wonder if the 0.9M to 2.4M savings by picking them are an adequate compensation. For retention, specially OBP-ing (or a few pushing races in the season, anyways), maybe it is. For promotion that's worth further analysis, because one needs to be consistently performing the whole season instead.
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The question is not whether they're capable. The question is! Is that the best method?
Anyone answering yes is doing it wrong.
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#43 geschrieben Mär 1 2021, 23:12:03
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In the early 40s seasons, Avonn were the same price as they are now, a more mid-range peak temp, and worse in the rain. And they consistently competed with and out-performed the other two generic promotion options in Pro. Someone was 2 races away from becoming the first person ever to win 17 races in a single season in Pro in S42, P5, and he was on Avonn. You'll find most Pro groups were won by an Avonn user beating a Yoko or Dunno user, and when they didn't win they at least competed evenly.
Granted, peak temp is quite a lot more significant than 2 wet bars, but in a colder-than-average season there's no reason Avonn couldn't be the best choice under 3mil.
The main reason Avonn aren't super appealing nowadays is because a lot more people are choosing BY than ever since they gained a dry bar. And BY is the Avonn killer.
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#44 geschrieben Mär 1 2021, 23:43:13 (letzte Änderung Mär 1 2021, 23:46:17 von Edwin Silva)
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Quote ( Josh Clark @ March 1st 2021,23:12:03 ) In the early 40s seasons, Avonn were the same price as they are now, a more mid-range peak temp, and worse in the rain. And they consistently competed with and out-performed the other two generic promotion options in Pro.
There are several problems with that comparison:
i. Peak temperature is a big factor on the usability of tyres: close to mid range is good for consistency (i.e. requirement for promotion) and further from mid range is good for dedicated retention. Avonn moved severely towards the latter.
ii. Tyre popularity is another very important factor. The more people are picking the same tyre, the more a top package can shine with that tyre. Avonn were picked by ~70%-ish managers in Pro back in the day, which boosted them.
iii. I don't really agree they consistently competed, let alone outperformed the other typical brands. Dunnos destroyed them even when Avonn were very popular, and that in every single metric: points/manager per race, promotion odds / tyre share, demotion odds. Which means not only Avonn weren't really good for promotion, but they weren't good for anything. Of course, once their peak temperature was reduced they became even more useless for promotion and performing retention, relegated to an OBP role (and I don't even rate them very good at that either, given one can OBP retention even with Pipis nowadays).
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