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Emne: 90% rule (again) |
704 svar
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The rules say laps in race analysis summary though, not lap viewer.
It is time based, always has been. Jukka has explained how it's worked out earlier in this thread (how time is used to work out laps run).
Funnily enough, I'm sure I remember things like this being discussed way in the past about why a live race viewer wouldn't be a good idea (as it would have some inaccuracies due to it just being a graphical representation of the time based data). For now, probably best to live with the small inconsistencies.
Only way I can see around it is removing that extra lap data given altogether, but that creates huge complications with the old race viewer, and data in general. There is a reason it's been a known issue since forever, regardless of race viewers.
If anyone actually has a workable solution, I'm sure the admins would love to hear it.
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Actually Kevin it is based on the race summary not the race analysis.
I can accept the discrepancy between analysis and summary, but the discrepancy of the lap display between the two viewers is more difficult to come to terms with :(
If it is time based then the rules should be amended to tell how it is calculated. The RULES should not say that it is based on laps if it isn't.
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I had the same problem as Kevin. I finished the race, wasn’t classified although the race screen showed me crossing the finish line. So I was sure that I made 90% of the race length (in terms of lap time and kilometers) and that I would receive 100% of the income.
I think the live screen is good, and it’s not a matter of time.
The winning driver of my group did it in 5912.916 seconds and I was late by 583.42 sec (I don’t think I lost almost 8 sec in few hundreds of meters). So, I’m in the 90% of his race time.
I think we have to look at the race length your driver covered AT THE EXACT MOMENT WHEN THE FIRST CROSSES THE FINISH LINE. At that point my driver run 53 point something laps – I guess it’s the same for Kevin – so under the 90% of the race length.
Quote from the game rules :
“90% race distance rule: If you don't cover 90% of the race distance (as determined in the race summary) you will receive only 50% of the race income according to the table above.
Note that the 90% race distance is calculated on the total number of laps for a race.”
So maybe the rules should be written like that : if you don’t cover 90% of the race distance when the first crosses the finish line…
But the strange thing is that… there was a bug. I ran with Alonso’s Renault car livery of 2005, didn’t change anything during the night and now I have Vandoorne’s MacLaren !??
My driver is Alonso, or Dan the Man. And even if I think and hope that Vandoorne will be one of the future stars, I wouldn’t take his car. That’s why I’m sure there was a bug (or I’ve been hacked…) but it doesn’t mean the two problems are related.
Jukka, could you check, please? Thanks
Ioannis, I couldn’t agree more with your idea of introducing a step in the rules! Cheers!
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Quote ( Fred Vautrin @ March 31st 2018,13:19:40 ) I think we have to look at the race length your driver covered AT THE EXACT MOMENT WHERE THE FIRST CROSSES THE FINISH LINE.
This is a rough rule, but it's not fully correct either.
Quote ( Fred Vautrin @ March 31st 2018,13:19:40 ) The winning driver of my group did it in 5912.916 seconds and I was late by 583.42 sec (I don’t think I lost almost 8 sec in few hundreds of meters). So, I’m in the 90% of his race time.
I would need to find and check how exactly it is done, but roughly, your leader was lapping around 86,5 at the end of the race. 7*86,5=605,5s, so less than that is ok, more than that isn't. You were actually 628,232s late. So too much.
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Quote ( Graham Mercer @ March 31st 2018,13:18:17 ) Actually Kevin it is based on the race summary not the race analysis.
Sorry, I meant summary. I'll edit to avoid confusion.
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ March 31st 2018,13:04:00 ) If anyone actually has a workable solution, I'm sure the admins would love to hear it.
get rid of 90% rule? :)
Or at least get rid of the number of laps reached determining the race money of smoking cars. Instead, why not all smoking cars get a guaranteed downturn in race money. Say, 80% or something given that retirements get 50%. That would remove the protestations/confusing side of the 90% rule completely. Watch for a thousand cries..but lets be honest, smoking cars do not chug round a race track for like 40+ laps like they do in GPRO. I get the need for it from a management game perspective, but from the perspective of racing, the current system is not realistic at all.
This would benefit the game anyway I think, there's far too much money swirling around amateur (and Pro too these days as a result of amateur) so giving people a frightening thought of instant 80% money for smoking (or at least set it at 90% so its some kind of penalty) should mean people take more evasive action with replacing parts.
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Quote ( David Jones-Winkley @ March 31st 2018,09:20:23 ) The race screens are just a visual way of showing time. It's all to make the game more pretty and at one time it was all vlad did to when adding new features. The 90% rule is based on time and not how many laps the viewer says you have done.
Just look at it as you have been given 2 extra laps worth of data.
David, in the live viewer it says I completed 55 laps.
I don't just want the data, I want the full race income.
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Hmm I don't really see a need to change it.
Something like an 80% penalty for simply smokiing might be a bit harsh, but at the same time I don't think it would deter anyone from purposefully smoking consecutive races. Most probably do it to drop motivation and still make a good amount of money (at least in Amateur), and it's not that difficult to start a race with multiple fully worn parts and still make 90% race distance. But if you get rid of the rule, how is a retirement decided?
I don't think you can simply have categories of racing, smoking, retired. What if you smoke only 1 lap? What if it's a random smoke? What if you get a puncture on the last lap? I think the 90% rule works very well. The only thing that makes it seem bad is the fact that smoking isn't 10% slower than not smoking. You shouldn't be able to smoke 90% of the race and finish with full income, but simply putting a penalty on smoking is not, in my opinion, the way to go.
I would genuinely love to see a fee on smoking laps though. 50k/lap should do it ;)
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Quote ( Josh Clark @ March 31st 2018,14:42:01 ) I would genuinely love to see a fee on smoking laps though. 50k/lap should do it ;)
That doesn't solve the countback issue of the 90% rule though does it :) I know what you're going to say though, who cares about 100k, its smaller margins than the issue Kevin is proclaiming above.
Quote ( Josh Clark @ March 31st 2018,14:42:01 ) if you get rid of the rule, how is a retirement decided?
as soon as 99% wear is reached? (outside of instant race ending retirements ofc).
Honestly, getting rid of the 90% rule would be the solution...ok, 80% earnings penalty for smoking might sound a little aggressive, but isn't 50% for a retirement? You'd argue the 50% penalty is more harsh because of the instant race ending randoms. 80% would not be near as harsh...and yes, smoking one lap would of course instigate it...if you want people to not purposefully gain from poor management then its a reasonable solution, right? Obviously you won't ever stop people smoking intentionally at least because of the driver management aspect, but end of season smoke outs are largely economic decisions above all. This tactic is generally limited to Pro and Amateur, but in any case the issue of the 90% rule itself affects all levels so why not just remove it and replace as such with a penalty applied to the full race money for their position, instead of players having to achieve a certain distance.
smoke 1 or more laps = 80% of money for your position
99% wear reached triggers race retirement, as does race ending random = 50% money for your position.
= No more protestations about 90% distance.
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10 people in my race last night didn't smoke, out of 26. I smoked from lap 7 to the end, and had I not pit 7 times I likely would've finished 5th, given my wet pace compared to the rest of the group. I think that deserves a reward, not a penalty ;)
But I get what you're saying though. I just obviously don't see the same problem that you're seeing, cos I don't think that area of the game needs changing. I've not once thought that it doesn't work well already, so I can't really comment on how it should be changed.
But I'd definitely like to see smoking be much slower. I get that worn parts make you slower already, but smoking should have a much steeper pace drop curve, and the end of the curve should be at least 10% slower than non-smoking pace. Imo a simple logarithmic curve for pace decay, hitting 10% pace drop off around 20 laps in and a severely increased random chance of dropping out after that, would be better than the current system. I don't think people should be smoking for 50 laps and get away with full race income.
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Quote ( Josh Clark @ March 31st 2018,15:07:39 ) I just obviously don't see the same problem that you're seeing,
It's not a problem i'm seeing as such, read the last page or so of the topic...the problem itself is related to the race not being in sync with the race summary/data feed. Any problem about their being too many people smoking for too many laps is a different layer entirely. Like I said, its largely limited to Amateur and Pro in some cases (driver mainly).
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the same problem I have with the subject of rain, I guess I should change the race viewer and show me the lap that I am completing, not the race lap, it is prone to confusion
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Just look at it as you lost out this time but next time it might work in your favour. By that mean you might be 7 laps down on a dry race but then because it changes to rain in the last couple of laps you might then be only 6 laps down because of the slower lap time causing the calculation to work in your favour allowing you to make 90% distance.
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This is the second time this has happened to me.
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And while the situation may not be ideal, it's not as if anyone is making bad decisions based on the discrepancy. You know before the race that if you finish the race more than 10% worth of laps behind the leader, you're not meeting the 90% - just because one place shows a bit more data than you really should have doesn't change that. If you are planning to not smoke and just be that slow, then you know how far behind is safe to be while still getting full race earnings.
And how you actually finish on most occasions where the "did I / didn't I" debate comes in to play (so smoking cars is a big factor) has a random element anyway.
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Quote ( Kevin Fortin @ March 31st 2018,16:19:57 ) This is the second time this has happened to me.
Did you use any of the risks at all as it is possible to finish a race completing every lap and staying within 90% when you have multiple parts starting the race at 99% at the very last race of the season. Something to consider next time.
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5 parts over 99%...engine was likely to hit 116%
Went 0 risks and finished within 90%, much to my surprise.
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Quote ( Kirsty Ridley @ March 31st 2018,16:31:01 ) 5 parts over 99%...engine was likely to hit 116%
Went 0 risks and finished within 90%, much to my surprise.
You are a favourite of vlad unlike our friend Alex of course or maybe race 17 is just a special race
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Don't say things like that lol!
Yeah, race 17 maybe is more forgiving?
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Quote ( David Jones-Winkley @ March 31st 2018,16:29:09 ) Quote ( Kevin Fortin @ March 31st 2018,16:19:57 )
This is the second time this has happened to me.
Did you use any of the risks at all as it is possible to finish a race completing every lap and staying within 90% when you have multiple parts starting the race at 99% at the very last race of the season. Something to consider next time.
O risks across the board were used in the last race
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#591 Skrevet Jun 13 2018, 10:21:21 (senest redigeret Jun 13 2018, 10:25:54 af Dan Reed)
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I don't think this is the right place but I didn't want to start a fresh post.
If i look at the race analysis it says I finished 13th, while watching the race in the viewer I finished 13th. The thing is if I look at the race summary it says I completed 196 laps, now at the end of lap 196 I was in 12th. (Both the leaders lap 196 and my lap 196 I am in 12th)
Now someone overtakes me on my lap 199 (After the race had finished) and is now classified above me?
Can someone explain this?
I guess the question is, When does the race end? when the leader completes all the distance or when each individual car completes their own race distance? and if the latter is the case why does the race summary only show how much I completed until the leader finished? It's all a little confusing.
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The race doesn't stop when the leader crosses the finish line. You still have to complete your 200 laps.
Edit: Yeah, the race summary is a bit confusing, You've done 200 laps but with a time corresponding to 4 laps behind the leader. Completing whole distance is important for the parts wear and fuel and tyres analysis. Gap to the leader is important for 90% rule. Admins claimed they are working on the lap based race engine (which additionally should solve weather "bugs") but at the moment we have to accept the current solution.
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Ok, just for confirmation this is different than pre live race viewer? when we just had the old viewer when I used to play the race ended when the leader reached race distance, correct?
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Quote ( Dan Reed @ June 13th 2018,10:39:37 ) Ok, just for confirmation this is different than pre live race viewer? when we just had the old viewer when I used to play the race ended when the leader reached race distance, correct?
It's exactly the same engine, but with a different graphical representation. The race engine is based on time, not on laps. See my edit above.
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#595 Skrevet Jun 13 2018, 10:51:00 (senest redigeret Jun 13 2018, 10:51:33 af Dan Reed)
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Dzieki Tomek. I thought this was the case just wanted it confirmed.
I'm sure I remember when I used to play (we old had the old race viewer) and when the leaders last lap ticked over that was it, race over (no more position changes, even if the analysis said we did more laps). Now with the new race viewer it seems we have the extra laps to complete if you're not on the lead lap and you can actually overtake people on them.
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Quote ( Dan Reed @ June 13th 2018,10:51:00 ) Dzieki Tomek
:-)
Quote ( Dan Reed @ June 13th 2018,10:51:00 ) Now with the new race viewer it seems we have the extra laps to complete if you're not on the lead lap and you can actually overtake people on them.
The results will still be exactly the same :-) In the old viewer, Foietta has gained a position on lap 199 :-)
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In the old viewer, it showed everyone completing one lap, then everyone completing the second lap, so even if you were lapped it still showed your 38th lap at the same time as the leader's 38th lap. If you look at the races in the old viewer you'll see the gaps just get to 4 minutes or however much, but they'll still be on the same lap.
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Ah, Thanks guys, all cleared up now :)
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#599 Skrevet Jun 13 2018, 12:45:06 (senest redigeret Jun 13 2018, 12:49:17 af Josh Clark)
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E: I should probably post in a more relevant place. My bad
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If 90% of 60 = 54, why did not I get the full prize in Race 09 (Silverstone)?
52 1:34.284 35 Extra Soft Cloudy 41° 94% Car problem
53 1:33.967 35 Extra Soft Cloudy 41° 94% Car problem
54 1:34.110 35 Extra Soft Cloudy 41° 94% Car problem
55 1:34.276 35 Extra Soft Cloudy 41° 94% Car problem
56 - 35 Extra Soft Cloudy 41° 94% Dropped out
57 - 35 Extra Soft Cloudy 41° 94% Dropped out
58 - 35 Extra Soft Cloudy 41° 94% Dropped out
59 - 35 Extra Soft Cloudy 41° 94% Dropped out
60 - 35 Extra Soft Cloudy 40° 94% Dropped out
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