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Emne: Weather change during a race (lapped cars) |
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#1 Skrevet Aug 12 2017, 08:18:12
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I noticed a glitch during last race (S60, R5) and I'm asking if this is an known error with fix to come or just something we should know about this game?
I was looking second time new race screen (which is awesome by the way!). My race was going down the drain because I was very slow in wet with dry setup. So I was waiting weather change very very much. I were two laps down from the leader at lap 24, when weather changed and leader came in.
Question is: Why my weather didn't change same time as a leader? I had to drive two more laps on wet, and when I reached my lap 24 weather change to me also. So lapped drivers drove still wet race, when leaders drove dry race at the same time on the same race track. How is that possible?
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Quote ( Tomas Kuusela @ August 12th 2017,08:18:12 ) just something we should know about this game?
¨¨This
Quote ( Tomas Kuusela @ August 12th 2017,08:18:12 ) Question is: Why my weather didn't change same time as a leader? I had to drive two more laps on wet, and when I reached my lap 24 weather change to me also.
That way the weather effect is same for everyone, since it happens on the same respective lap
Everyone gets equal distance in dry and wet
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#3 Skrevet Aug 14 2017, 20:42:50
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Quote ( Mikko Heikkinen @ August 12th 2017,08:55:28 ) That way the weather effect is same for everyone, since it happens on the same respective lap Everyone gets equal distance in dry and wet
sorry, but this is neither logical, realistic nor fair.
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#4 Skrevet Aug 14 2017, 20:49:51
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Dont know if its not fair as its the same for everyone and some times might favour one or not.....but for sure its not realistic nor logical,and i think it should be changed if possible......
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#5 Skrevet Aug 14 2017, 20:54:07
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Since everybody technically completes 100% of the race laps, I don't see how it can change. Fuel, tyres, parts wear, boost laps, energy, etc are all calculated from the full race distance. This game would be extremely confusing if it wasn't like this, or impossible. Weather has to be calculated the same as all of these.
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Quote ( Martin Elser @ August 14th 2017,20:42:50 ) sorry, but this is neither logical, realistic nor fair.
Why not fair? Not logical and not realistic? Maybe, but much easier to FOBY ;)
Quote ( Martin Irla @ August 14th 2017,20:49:51 ) but for sure its not realistic nor logical,and i think it should be changed if possible......
This is how it was in the old race viewer. One long straight. Everyone on the same lap, no doubled managers.
In the new one it looks unlogical, but whole the race engine would have to be rebuild to solve that.
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#7 Skrevet Aug 14 2017, 21:02:18
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sorry,but cant agree with that.....maybe as you say its impossible to change it,but if it is not,cant see why it would be confusing,or it will be up to us to figure out why some changes....you can pit or calculate whatever is needed maintaining the weather same for everyone in real time,maintaining everything as it was before the weather change and starting to calculate again from there....but as i said,dont know if thats possible,thats why i said think it should be changed IF ITs POssIBLE.....
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#8 Skrevet Aug 14 2017, 21:05:06
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I don't know how this can be fixed, but it looks indeed a bit strange. I find the ending laps more annoying at the end of the race. If the winner comes over the line the lapped cars still have to make 5 laps in which they can't overtake. This can be fixed quite easily by ending the race if everyone comes over the finish line after the leader has finished.
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#9 Skrevet Aug 14 2017, 21:15:47
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And this arises another question.....before the race viewer,the car wear i supose was calculated for the laps you did,if you did 67 laps of 72 the wear was of those 67 laps.....but now as every car has to finish the race,how is calculated? 67 laps or 72?,,,,and that is a change,small but a change and it can make diferences,so i think we should know it for sure.And since its a change done only for the race viewer,think we should be told how it is and not something for us to figure out....
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It has been like this for 59 GPRO seasons already, and nobody ever complained. It looks funny now because of the new race viewer. But to fix it, would basically mean making a completely new race simulator from scratch, because it requires a fundamentally different approach to simulating the race (time-based instead of lap-by-lap as it is now).
I wouldn't expect this to change in the near future.
It's also not unfair, because it's the same logic for everyone. Illogical, yes. Let's say it's a feature, not a bug. ;)
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Quote ( Martin Irla @ August 14th 2017,21:15:47 ) And this arises another question.....before the race viewer,the car wear i supose was calculated for the laps you did,if you did 67 laps of 72 the wear was of those 67 laps.....but now as every car has to finish the race,how is calculated? 67 laps or 72?,,,,and that is a change,small but a change and it can make diferences,so i think we should know it for sure.And since its a change done only for the race viewer,think we should be told how it is and not something for us to figure out.... Nothing changed, your wear was always counted for all 72 laps. Race Analysis also shows you 72 laptimes, and the fuel consumption for 72 laps, etcetera etcetera. Even if the Race Summary said you did only 67.
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Ok,thanks.....suposed that but had to be sure....
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Martin as you say if it is possible ?
If one takes a real race situation in F1 when it rains no matter how many laps down the back markers are when the rain stops it stops (and doesn't wait for the back markers to complete the required laps) and everyone needs to pit immediately to change to dry tires.
The following situation could realize now with this scenario in GPRO:
1) All back markers could/will be compromised by tire wear depending on how many laps they are down, so choice of tire comes into play i.e. if leader has 20 laps till end of race after rain stopped and chose x/soft and that is the max dist of this tire depending on various setup/race factors, and the back markers had same tire choice they will most likely need to do an extra pitstop due to tire wear.
2) But unfortunately for all, it is very difficult to emulate real life scenario's and the game engine needs to cater and make it fair to all Managers, so one just needs to get used to it with time.
Must say I find it hilarious to see the cars whizz past when they are on dry and I am still on wet, we are really spoilt with new race screen and enjoy it 300% more than static screen.
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It's purely aesthetics imo. It might look a bit strange on the new race screen but anybody who understood how the weather system worked in GPRO before the new race screen was introduced would understand why it shows this way on the new race screen and therefore shouldn't be surprised.
That being said, I do understand the confusion and it does look strange. There is a way of fixing this on the new race screen though. The logic could be changed so that whenever the car you are watching puts another car a lap down, or is put a lap down by another car, then that rival car should disappear from the race screen. This way you only see cars that are on the same lap as the car you are watching and the whole thing looks a lot more logical again as all the cars you can see on the screen at any one time will be in the same weather conditions.
The logic to detect when a car is being lapped must already exist in order to trigger the blue flags, so I guess this would be quite a simple thing to implement.
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Ok,its quite simple....its not logical or realistic,but i know this is a game,and although im sure everyone wants to be the more realistic as possible,sometimes that doesnt work and you cant....its quite simple,if its possible i think it should be changed,if its not thats it and we all have to manage like it or not....
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Should show cars on different laps as shadows. Or perhaps have it as an option to do so. Probably should be a default option: the way it acts is OK for us old-timers, but it will be tougher to accept for new people who are unfamiliar with the old 'linear' track
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Quote ( Frederik Broux @ August 14th 2017,21:05:06 ) I find the ending laps more annoying at the end of the race. If the winner comes over the line the lapped cars still have to make 5 laps in which they can't overtake. This can be fixed quite easily by ending the race if everyone comes over the finish line after the leader has finished.
It's not that easy. The race is simulated lap by lap, so until the last lap simulation, the leader's finish time is not known. I guess it could be possible to discard the "extra" laps afterwards. But then there comes the data issues. And what if someone pits after the lap that turns out to be his last? That would be a total waste of a pit as he could driver straight to chequered flag.
Quote ( Peter Peyper @ August 14th 2017,21:27:44 ) 1) All back markers could/will be compromised by tire wear depending on how many laps they are down, so choice of tire comes into play i.e. if leader has 20 laps till end of race after rain stopped and chose x/soft and that is the max dist of this tire depending on various setup/race factors, and the back markers had same tire choice they will most likely need to do an extra pitstop due to tire wear.
On the other hand, back markers might save a pit stop when the rain starts, as they would have covered less distance until that point. But anyway, it's roughly the same situation for everyone close to you (ie. those who you are battling against).
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It is illogical but not the only thing, paying 700k for fitness training is not logical as well. This is how the game works. To repeat what someone told me in another post, feel free to create your own game.
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Quote ( Tomek Kiełpiński @ August 14th 2017,20:57:30 ) whole ... race engine ... have to be rebuild C'mon Vlad. Do it.
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Best way to fix it is to stay on the lead lap i guess!
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You got the new and cool live race screen and you're still complaining? If you want realistic, then go to the track and drive, if you want to play a game, then play it and stop complaining about everything. It's that easy.
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#22 Skrevet Aug 15 2017, 01:59:41 (senest redigeret Aug 15 2017, 02:07:39 af Martin Irla)
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I wonder who is complaining.....at least not me,in fact i never complain.But that doesnt mean me or anybody cant express their opinion for something somebody thinks might improve the game.And if im not mistaken,even the admins encourages that,probably some ideas to improve the game have come from suggestions.....beats me why you take as a moan or complaint something that somebody say just because he thinks it can improve the game....you can agree with it or not,like it or not,but never take it as a complaint....Its that easy....
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Quote ( Jukka Sireni @ August 14th 2017,22:25:09 ) It's not that easy. The race is simulated lap by lap, so until the last lap simulation, the leader's finish time is not known. I guess it could be possible to discard the "extra" laps afterwards. But then there comes the data issues. And what if someone pits after the lap that turns out to be his last? That would be a total waste of a pit as he could driver straight to chequered flag.
Or you can automatically pause the race when all/the leader/same lap as leader cars pass the start-finish line. Eventually make a [view my last 2-3-4-5-6-7 laps] link, very very very small (albeit one could still press play to continue). Voila race "ends" then :P
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Hm... if we make that when rains starts/finishes it would be affected by everyone, than it look more realistic and logical, right now for example on a small wet track, you can pass someone for 2 or even more laps and then when the weather changes, you pit, change your tires and pass the same driver for 1 more or 2 laps more, because that same driver is still driving in wet track, while you already driving on dry one with dry tires, so that makes a gap for lapped cars even bigger to catch up, which is nor realistic, nor logical. Making to effect everyone when the weather changes, the gap in lapped cars won't increase so much, but it can have a hughe difference in strategy if wet track was from the start and then in 15 lap it stoped, drivers who previosly were slow on wet tracks but are quite fast in dry tracks, could still compete for a points finish if they were lapped only once, it would depend on a strategy, right now if you got overlaped at least once, you will get overlaped twice while you will be sitting in pits to change to dry compound or were driving 1 lap on wrong tires, which makes finishing in points position impossible.
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#25 Skrevet Aug 15 2017, 12:54:27 (senest redigeret Aug 15 2017, 12:58:10 af Virgis Lyss)
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Quote ( Dainius Vaškys @ August 15th 2017,12:28:30 ) ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Sentences, containing over 100 words, shouldn't be used under any circumstances, unless the purpose is to obfuscate all and everyone, as they do in insurance contracts.
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Dainus you don't seem to be listening to what other people are saying and just plowing along with your own agenda and quite frankly your thoughts are wrong
Quote ( Dainius Vaškys @ August 15th 2017,12:28:30 ) right now if you got overlaped at least once, you will get overlaped twice not true , I was lapped once prior to the rain finishing last race and did not get lapped twice :)Quote ( Dainius Vaškys @ August 15th 2017,12:28:30 ) which makes finishing in points position impossible.
odd I finished on the podium so therefore not impossible :)
lots of things in the game are not realistic or logical , however this is a management game not a real life simulator , so you manage using the data you have gained and means the data is consistent :)
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I don't understand the issue, currently, as the OP presented it, its this
1 - Its not fair as I was negatively effected by running a dry set up on a wet track 2- I wanted the weather the change earlier so I could benefit from my dry set up.
If, the weather was to change for everyone at the same time, regardless of being a lap or two down, someone would post this
1 - I want the weather the change later so I could benefit from my wet set up 2 - Its not fair as I was negatively effected by running a wet set up on a dry track
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Quote ( Peter Willmore @ August 15th 2017,14:03:31 ) Dainus you don't seem to be listening to what other people are saying and just plowing along with your own agenda and quite frankly your thoughts are wrong
Quote ( Dainius Vaškys @ August 15th 2017,12:28:30 )
right now if you got overlaped at least once, you will get overlaped twice not true , I was lapped once prior to the rain finishing last race and did not get lapped twice :)Quote ( Dainius Vaškys @ August 15th 2017,12:28:30 )
which makes finishing in points position impossible.
odd I finished on the podium so therefore not impossible :)
lots of things in the game are not realistic or logical , however this is a management game not a real life simulator , so you manage using the data you have gained and means the data is consistent :)
The thing is basicly it effects more rookie and maybe ama managers, higher up, u rarely pass someone more than one lap, unless you are smoking.
P.S. I agree that I might have missread something, or didint catch what was being spoken about, but that might be my limitation on my english knowledge :]
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Quote ( Jukka Sireni @ August 14th 2017,22:25:09 ) Quote ( Frederik Broux @ August 14th 2017,21:05:06 )
I find the ending laps more annoying at the end of the race. If the winner comes over the line the lapped cars still have to make 5 laps in which they can't overtake. This can be fixed quite easily by ending the race if everyone comes over the finish line after the leader has finished.
It's not that easy. The race is simulated lap by lap, so until the last lap simulation, the leader's finish time is not known. I guess it could be possible to discard the "extra" laps afterwards. But then there comes the data issues. And what if someone pits after the lap that turns out to be his last? That would be a total waste of a pit as he could driver straight to chequered flag.
Quote ( Peter Peyper @ August 14th 2017,21:27:44 )
1) All back markers could/will be compromised by tire wear depending on how many laps they are down, so choice of tire comes into play i.e. if leader has 20 laps till end of race after rain stopped and chose x/soft and that is the max dist of this tire depending on various setup/race factors, and the back markers had same tire choice they will most likely need to do an extra pitstop due to tire wear.
On the other hand, back markers might save a pit stop when the rain starts, as they would have covered less distance until that point. But anyway, it's roughly the same situation for everyone close to you (ie. those who you are battling against).
Well there is a way just have to figure the out what you need to make it happen. There are many games that if you are a lap down, once the leader crosses the checker the race is over. Once you find the script you need to put in place for it, then things will work like that. The hard part is figuring the script out, but it is not impossible or other games wouldn't being ending the race once leader crosses the checker flag.
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Quote ( Christopher Jones @ August 16th 2017,00:39:56 ) Well there is a way just have to figure the out what you need to make it happen. There are many games that if you are a lap down, once the leader crosses the checker the race is over.
Yes and there are many which are not manager games at all, but racing games instead.
Many where you can buy your win with real money, many which don't value equality.
In Gpro everyone does the full race length: Everyone has the chance to make their final overtakes on their penultimate lap as they have the full length to race, and all get full race worth of data and full race worth of parts wear.
Quote ( Christopher Jones @ August 16th 2017,00:39:56 ) Once you find the script you need to put in place for it, then things will work like that. The hard part is figuring the script out, but it is not impossible or other games wouldn't being ending the race once leader crosses the checker flag.
So it's not just about implementing code, it's also a matter of principle.
That said: I know that in real life racing the race ends on the lap the leader crosses the line, but consider the reason why that is.
Would you not agree that it is for the benefit of TV ?
They didn't make the rule for equality or fairness, one of the reasons for the rule is because TV time is expensive. It's got nothing to do with racing.
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