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Teema: Covid vaccine |
480 vastust
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In the middle between my first and second Pfizer doses. Apart from a small pain in the arm for two days no side effects. I'm in a similar position as @Chris Adnams (P13), I meet lots of people everyday but managed not to get infected (and I'm quite sure that is the case because the only friend we kept on meeting throughout the pandemic is tested once a week. There's no way I would have it and he did not).
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Got my Pfizer 1st dose tday - feeling fine so far... :)
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We need to make this shit of a virus that so many men die from the world,therefore I think that all those who have refused the vaccine and who are not going to get it that they should take the covid in a very serious form and no doctor in the world should cure them!
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I thought that you had good intentions and just forgot what happened last time, but no, apparently you made this thread to bash people for not taking the vaccine...
Have you not learned from last time, for what happened? You really think you are going to change their minds?
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The problem is not the people who don't want to be vaccinated, the problem is to think that the vaccine is the only solution to this problem.
Some behaviours that we were forced to take during this pandemic situation will always be installed in our minds from now on and even if the virus will be defeated, the whole world's health, regarding all possible parameters, won't be the same anymore.
The vaccination campaigns are one of the solutions, but they're not the long life elixir: the world's economic situation will need a complete rebuild and it's not something that will be solved in a heartbeat.
Quote ( Gianluca Taurelli @ May 19th 2021,17:59:10 ) I think that all those who have refused the vaccine and who are not going to get it that they should take the covid in a very serious form and no doctor in the world should cure them!
And by the way, this part of your quote should be eradicated from the general people's thinking, I won't be thinking something like this even if forced.
Go and tell it to those people who lost their lives not because of Covid-19, but because they didn't have food to put on the table and felt no more need for life.
Grow up.
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Quote ( Ricardo Antunes @ May 19th 2021,18:08:21 ) I thought that you had good intentions and just forgot what happened last time, but no, apparently you made this thread to bash people for not taking the vaccine...
Have you not learned from last time, for what happened? You really think you are going to change their minds?
but you are crazy! it's my first post for the vaccine!
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Quote ( Ricardo Antunes @ May 19th 2021,18:38:32 ) So you are also a liar?
no,,if you want you can have the administrator check, but then you make me an apology
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Quote ( Gianluca Taurelli @ May 19th 2021,18:42:00 ) Quote ( Ricardo Antunes @ May 19th 2021,18:38:32 )
So you are also a liar?
no,,if you want you can have the administrator check, but then you make me an apology
D- did you click the link?
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Quote ( Ricardo Antunes @ May 19th 2021,18:38:32 ) D- did you click the link? so in that post i asked about how the vaccine was going in the uk. and in this topic I asked another thing and I can not do it?
friend you are
brain sickness get cured!
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No but you said this was your first post regarding the vaccine. Which is not true :)
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Me and my wife were vaccinated with the second dose of sinoparm (Chinese) and there were no side effects. Here there is only sputnik V since sinoparm does not enter any more and Astrazeneca does not comply with the agreement since it is manufactured here and shipped frozen to Mexico to be packaged, but not a single dose has returned. They say that this month several million will enter. Pfizer was the first to be approved, but never reached an agreement with the government. Even of Sputnick, most only have the 1st dose and will have to wait 3 months for the 2nd, which will also be made here.
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Got me a few shots today.......The Cincoro Blanco shot.
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I will probably receive an invitation somewhere in the next few weeks. I won't deny it but write a return letter instead to please donate my part to a country short on vaccines for those which lifes - contrary to mine - might really depend on it.
I made that deciscion final after a massive radio and television advertisement to donate (money) started for those countries.
I'm fully aware I might be the exception on the 'rule' but willing to take that risk. I truelly hope that everyone outside the true risk groups which has little to fear from COVID statistically, is equally brave and makes the same decision.
---
Medical 'apartheid' aka a test or vaccine society is a no-go area as far as I'm concerned. We might as well put triangle shaped biohazard sings on the non-vaccinated. Much cheaper and far more recognisable. But to be sure let's put 2 triangles, one point up and one point down as that leads to a shape proven to work... Sounds absurd and ridiculous right?!
So why would a 'positive' registration could possibly 'work' while the negative has proven again and again it doesn't and ONLY leads to violence?!
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Quote ( Jay De Snoo @ May 19th 2021,22:29:33 ) I will probably receive an invitation somewhere in the next few weeks. I won't deny it but write a return letter instead to please donate my part to a country short on vaccines for those which lifes - contrary to mine - might really depend on it.
I made that deciscion final after a massive radio and television advertisement to donate (money) started for those countries.
I'm fully aware I might be the exception on the 'rule' but willing to take that risk. I truelly hope that everyone outside the true risk groups which has little to fear from COVID statistically, is equally brave and makes the same decision.
Lets be realistic your letter will do nothing, "your vaccine won't go anywhere", the truth is though you may catch covid, as you say you are "low risk", however every jump the virus makes risks a mutation which evades the current vaccines and puts those who are in the at risk group at risk again.
You would be much better using your time lobbying your government to support waiving the patents on the vaccines and to help finance vaccines for those other countries.
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Quote ( Jay De Snoo @ May 19th 2021,22:29:33 ) I will probably receive an invitation somewhere in the next few weeks. I won't deny it but write a return letter instead to please donate my part to a country short on vaccines for those which lifes - contrary to mine - might really depend on it.
That would be an exercise in futility. "your part" will not go to any other country, the vaccinations have been hauled to your country and they have certain conditions for preservation and use by dates. In the end, if you go that route "your part" will quite likely end up in trash (as sad as it is).
Quote ( Jay De Snoo @ May 19th 2021,22:29:33 ) I made that deciscion final after a massive radio and television advertisement to donate (money) started for those countries.
So you saw an add and decided to do something completely different ? I don't see the logic there,
That (donating) OTOH may very well be fine and prudent. That can actually potentially help, the countries in question could (potentially) order/buy more vaccines).
Assuming ofcourse that some despot of said country won't just pocket the money ;)
Quote ( Jay De Snoo @ May 19th 2021,22:29:33 ) I'm fully aware I might be the exception on the 'rule' but willing to take that risk.
The bigger picture there is that IF you're vaccinated, you're less likely to infect the ones who are in risk group. Accepting the vaccination is not for your own benefit (alone), it's also for everyone else you come into contact with.
So... are you taking "the risk" for yourself, or are you risking the people around you (?)
On the topic of vaccinations in general: In Finland the following have disappeared because of vaccinations program:
smallpox, polio, measels, mumps, rubella, Hib (aka hemofilus), pertussis
Recently there has been worrying news about vaccination coverage (worry that coverage may decline to 95% in the next few years), some of those diseases may get the chance to slip back after being vanquished for years.
I blame social media.... everyone with IQ 1 can post every nutty idea they get, and for some reason there are enough people who believe anything they see on the net :)
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Those who got vaccinated, are you going to repeat it all the time when a new mutation appears? Because now it's highly possible that all these measures taken will be repeated more frequentely...
And another question, do you really believe that everything started in Wuhan? Had you had at least 1% of doubt on the official version? What if it was planned? Starting from 2009-2010 with H1N1 ?
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Quote ( Peter Willmore @ May 19th 2021,22:56:16 ) Lets be realistic your letter will do nothing, "your vaccine won't go anywhere", the truth is though you may catch covid, as you say you are "low risk", however every jump the virus makes risks a mutation which evades the current vaccines and puts those who are in the at risk group at risk again.
You would be much better using your time lobbying your government to support waiving the patents on the vaccines and to help finance vaccines for those other countries.
I was prepared for a response like this. I agree my letter won't do anything, my response will just be registred as 'no' at best and 'non-cooperative' at worst in these times. I can only hope that the part I refuse isn't been destroyed while someone else might truely need it.
But maybe that's the point I wanted to make... The immune system every single person has and helped humanity both sustain and grow for the past - I don't know how many - millenia appearantly has been successfully cancelled in the past few months...
The 1st ever vaccine (small pox) was developped in 1796, yet it took another 200-250 years before vaccines became anywhere near common.
Just an example: in 1988 the majority of countries (including france, spain and portugal here in europe) still faced polio outbreaks on an anual basis. First by 2014 only a handful of countries in the world still faced this dissastrous disease annually... Such was only possible due to 2 things: 1st the true world-wide intention to annihilate the disease and 2nd a vaccine that was >99% efficient. For COVID we already know it simply CANNOT be annihilated even IF vaccins were >99%.
Maybe I should tell I travelled a lot; business and private. Businesswise I had to make choices between risk vs personal wellbeing quite frequently where infections/diseases where often the least of potential problems, yet also the only decision that was truely mine.
In that perspective; my personal chances aged 44, normal weight or maybe slightly underweighted, good & healty diet with no shoratage of vitamise, access to essential healthcare and no underlying disease on getting severe COVID (worse than a couple of days in bed, NOT requiring medical home treatment) are (very roughly) between 1/40 till 1/60. Being hospitalized 1/2800 and death 1/38500. Differences up to 60-65 under the same conditions are very small.
So please enlighten me where my risks (or most outside the risk group) are or why on earth I (or most) would desperately need a vaccine?! Especially when those at true risk don't have access to it?!
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Quote ( Jay De Snoo @ May 20th 2021,00:15:50 ) So please enlighten me where my risks (or most outside the risk group) are or why on earth I (or most) would desperately need a vaccine?! Especially when those at true risk don't have access to it?!
Quote ( Chris Adnams @ May 19th 2021,11:14:31 ) Therefore I will 100% be getting my vaccines when it is my turn, not only to protect myself, but those around me and those that I come into contact with in my everyday life. Unfortunately this is a concept too many people are failing to grasp.
You, as a non-vulnerable, unvaccinated person, could end up asymptomatically spreading Covid disease to a person more vulnerable than yourself. A person that may not end up with mild disease, and who's odds are much worse looking than yours.
It is incredibly annoying to me why people simply do not get this. It's not just about you. There's far too much of an "I'm alright Jack" attitude.
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Quote ( Chris Adnams @ May 20th 2021,00:27:55 ) It is incredibly annoying to me why people simply do not get this. It's not just about you. There's far too much of an "I'm alright Jack" attitude.
Do you get a flu shot every year?
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Yes I have had the flu vaccine. I have had it a few times, including last year.
Flu is nowhere near as transmissible as Covid though and the amount of people an infected person would infect in a normal, fully-functioning world will be considerably less than with Covid.
If you were to catch Covid, feel totally fine with no symptoms whatsoever and therefore not know you have it, then go about your normal business and pass it on to someone you know who may be a lot more vulnerable to it than you are. They then get seriously ill, or worse! How would you feel about that, if you knew you caused that, and could have done something to prevent it?
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You know that in the UK that more ppl have died of the flu than covid? You had to of known this, right?
The flu kills ppl every year and is highly contagious, so why have you only gotten it "a few times"?
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Quote ( Chris Adnams @ May 20th 2021,00:27:55 ) You, as an non-vulnerable, unvaccinated person, could end up asymptomatically spreading Covid disease to a person more vulnerable than yourself. A person that may not end up with mild disease, and who's odds are much worse looking than yours.
It is incredibly annoying to me why people simply do not get this. It's not just about you. There's far too much of an "I'm alright Jack" attitude.
An asymptomatically person, hence meaning one that was infected, had it's own immune system response exactly as its supposed to. Same applies to anyone infected and had simular to flu symptoms (like in bed for a few days, fever etc).
As far as I know, there's zero to non reason to believe, assume or any scientific evidence that for any such person a 'vaccine' would improve the (fast) results their own immune system already provides.
Vaccines itself are primarily to protect the person being vaccinated. Not their environment.
What is annoying is there's appearantly no free choice for a sole individual decision to have a minor medical treatment or not, independant of what they fear most: the disease or the 'vaccine' for the disease, rely on medicine or on their own system humanity became superior with. This is for those making a risk based decision, rather than those let by fear alone who obviously either want everyone vaccinated to ease their personal fear OR non vaccinated as you're connected to Bill Gates or something.
To me, those that are claiming 'it's only a vaccine' or 'matter of life and death for each' are as equally wrong and loonatic as those that associate those 'vaccines' with 5G and all sort of conspiracies.
What's straight out dangerous is those people willing to accept vaccine passports and test societies, i.e. some sort of medical apartheid. (those not old enough to know 'apartheid' please look it up; I thought we would be over it by 2021)
We might as well have non-vaccinated wearing visible bio-hazard signs. Those are usuably triangle shaped and yellow, so let's put 2 of those triangles the other way around together and at least we've a symbol that proved to be working greatly in the past!
Nonsense? Why would a 'positive' approach - so all instead of minority - be or work any better or have any different outcome than it had in the past? Not once, but time and time again it was tried.
The reason I put vaccines between quotation marks, is because it's a fact that most (if not all) COVID 'vaccines' are not like any traditional and long time proven vaccines.
That in itself doesn't make them dangerous or less effective; however long term effects are unlike traditional vaccines completely unknown (and even they have uncommon yet substantial side effects every now and then).
Yet, I fully admit the techniques behind these 'vaccines' are indeed very promising, and go beyond just infections of any kind. Moreover I hope this will be proven to be true over time. But till then I can and probably will doubt myself, for more than one reason, but there's absolutely no way I will have my kids vaccinated till those long term effects are known.
I probably should never had been involved in this matter, regardless on my intention to ease on discussion. But I finish by saying to each and every of you; I might not agree with what you have to say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
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Quote ( Ken Neihart @ May 20th 2021,01:15:37 ) You know that in the UK that more ppl have died of the flu than covid? You had to of known this, right?
The flu kills ppl every year and is highly contagious, so why have you only gotten it "a few times"?
We have had 112,318 recorded deaths in just England from Covid, although the true figure according to the ONS (Office for National Statistics) is nearly 130,000. The most people we had admitted to hospital in one DAY at our peak was over 4100. Again, just in England. The most people we had in ICU on ventilators was at its highest 3,736. This is all with varying degrees of lockdown for over a year.
During the flu season of 2018-19, pre-Covid, our highest weekly admissions to hospital was around 700, with about 300 in ICU. This is with life as normal.
These statistics come from official sites.
So please do tell me where it says that Flu is a worse killer than Covid?
I also note you didn't answer my question regarding passing Covid onto someone you know. This must mean you either agree (which is clear you don't) or you just don't care.
Edit: ONS stats for Flu deaths: https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/fre...
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Quote ( Jay De Snoo @ May 20th 2021,01:31:58 ) As far as I know, there's zero to non reason to believe, assume or any scientific evidence that for any such person a 'vaccine' would improve the (fast) results their own immune system already provides.
actually there is growing evidence it reduces transmission by around 66% ,
Quote ( Jay De Snoo @ May 20th 2021,01:31:58 ) What's straight out dangerous is those people willing to accept vaccine passports
Odd thing to say for someone who claims to travel alot , there are plenty of places in the world where you have to already have a vaccine passport as you call it to enter such for such things as yellow fever, Polio,meningococcal meningitis
you also complain about free choice, you have free choice to refuse the vaccine, but as you say in your earlier post you must weigh up the pro's and con's of that and part of that will likely be your ability to access certain things, because if you choose not to have the vaccine and choose to increase the danger to those around you, that's your choice but you have to live with the consequences.
If you are worried about the medial tech, why don't' you rather than refuse , find out if there is a way for you to have one of the non "MRNA" vaccines which use the same tech as vaccines we have been using as a world for a long time, although MRNA is the future and is one of the benefits which will come from this pandemic
Refusing the vaccine will at best do nothing to benefit those who you claim to wish to help, at worst cause a variant which will harm them even more
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Quote ( Chris Adnams @ May 20th 2021,01:33:30 )
So please do tell me where it says that Flu is a worse killer than Covid?
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12797578/flu-how-many-people-die-year/
Quote ( Chris Adnams @ May 20th 2021,01:33:30 ) I also note you didn't answer my question regarding passing Covid onto someone you know. This must mean you either agree (which is clear you don't) or you just don't care.
I've never had a flu shot, I didn't get H1N1 shot and I damn sure not getting a covid shot that has not been tested for long term affects. Oh, and the only place I ever wore a mask was in my doctors office. My sate did not do a total lock down like most and our numbers were inline with everyone else. I also realized long before our CDC admitted the death numbers were way off here and in fact, only 6% of reported covid deaths were actually death by covid. They have recently updated that number to only 5% of reported covid deaths. Here they were counting anyone who died while having covid as dying of covid, this is regardless of how you actually died, as long as you died with'n 28 days of testing positive for covid. Now, before you try to combat this by saying covid worsened a prior underlying condition, car and motorcycle accidents were even counted, if you were shot and had covid you died of covid....Getting my point here?
So to sum it all up, at least in the USA, when you grind into the numbers covid isn't as deadly as even the most common flu. Covid is also an airborne disease which means the only mask that even comes close to helping is the N95 mask and most people don't wear mask properly so it would be useless to most.
Now on to my question to you that you skipped on....Why do you only "sometimes" get a flu shot?
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I don't plan on stepping in but I couldn't help but to notice that this article says 17k people died of Flu last year, and... 42k people died of Covid... in an article written in October of 2020. Like not even 1 year.
You kinda took down your own argument on your own.
EDIT: continuing to read the article because I also don't plan on being misinformed, I see that you may be talking about the graph that appears further down (I would include it here but no image rights) in which by 18 September, the weekly deaths are lower in covid.
Now what you need to wonder is: why was the Flu more deadlier than covid after some time? Or, if you actually look at the graph: why did Covid start getting less deadlier? Conspiracy?
In 30th April of 2020, Boris Johnson announced that the UK would enter lockdown. If you look at the graph, it is around that time that weekly deaths start decreasing massively, due to the fact that less people are infected and so less people are dying in the hospitals.
By June we are still confined and we have been for so long that Covid deaths are lower than the Flu. Because we confined.
So do you think we should be confining forever? If not, what is the solution? I'm not going to weigh in, as I said, it's not my intention to, but here is the thought.
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You're coming with an article from The Sun, a publication well known in the UK for spouting absolute bollocks to try and dismiss numbers from official sources? OK, I'm done. There's just no point. I may as well be talking to a pineapple.
And to answer your final point, when I realised the actual severity of flu is when I decided to get the jab, and keep getting it. I was young and maybe a bit ill-informed previous to that. Everyone should know by now the seriousness of Covid, but apparently not, or they just don't care.
This is my last post in this topic.
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Quote ( Ken Neihart @ May 20th 2021,01:15:37 ) You know that in the UK that more ppl have died of the flu than covid? You had to of known this, right?
The flu kills ppl every year and is highly contagious, so why have you only gotten it "a few times"?
From which social media outlet do you get your "Facts" ?
influenza were reported across the UK from week 40, 2019 to week 14, 2020, including 103 deaths, based on combined data from England, Scotland and Northern Ireland
Given that the last 7 days there has been 54 deaths by Covid, I don't really understand how you can perpetuate such nonesense
Flu: ~100 per year
Covid: ~50 per week
Here are my sources:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/daily-death-reporting-now...
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths
What's your source ? Some nutter off the street or in their basement posting on social media ?
Or maybe the "facts" come from someone who doesn't understand the difference between week and year.
If a person doesn't understand the difference between x/week and x/year, those people should not be allowed to spread their misconceptions around the world in the internet
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Ricardo is spot on, you cannot compare the flu and covid without considering the mitigation factors that have influenced those numbers.
Flu is very much seasonal and we use a vaccine for.
Covid we have had massive lockdowns, restrictions, masking, border closures and now vaccines to try and keep numbers down.
Now any bad flu season puts a strain on any health system but never before have we seen total collapse of health systems or the mitigation being put in place over the last year, if it was "just a flu" then we could of done nothing and coped fine!
The other factor is people dieing of covid are doing so at a younger age than normal flu deaths.
https://www.health.org.uk/publications/long-reads/one-year-o...
Need to take the politics and media out of it and look at the hard numbers, that is the hardest thing to do for any discussion as everyone starts off with the propeganda baked in.
For example, the over hyping everything when we didnt know how bad it was because thats what people needed to take the pain of restrictions and lockdowns versus the conspiracy theorists, anti vax movement and opposition politics.
Like "you told us not to wear masks, now you tell us to wear masks, you dont know anything" when the reasoning was more "health pros need all the masks they can get, cant have normal people buying up all the supplies.
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