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Tema: [F1] 2021 season |
1741 respuestas
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Quote ( Geir Pukk @ December 6th 2021,13:50:13 ) Quote ( Shaun Thornton @ December 6th 2021,13:14:35 )
I think you misread it, I said unbiased. Nice bite though🎣
Keep getting your arse out, and I’ll remind you of post #766 glass houses and throwing stones comes to mind.
I know what I said and I know that I said it sarcastically, the emojis you like to add to the end of your posts make me doubt that what you are saying is actually serious, but sure be a troll if that's what gets you going :)
it’s a big one👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Replicating your post, and I’m a troll??
Mmmmmmm🤔
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Quote ( Rui Morais @ December 6th 2021,11:00:59 ) Whoever wins next week will be a bad example for motorsport.
*confusion rates soars*
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Honestly if Max doesn't win the title this year he only has himself to blame.
Max is 100% super talented and ballsy but it's the other stuff he is lacking IMO.
For someone who has been in F1 for so long his driving style hasn't matured to the amount you would of expected IMO, the Silverstone incident is a prime example even though it was deemed mostly Hamiltons fault, Maturity comes with understanding that backing out of that corner he would of got 18 points and that is better than 0, the amount of times other drivers have done that and honestly that is how Hamilton is still going to have a chance of winning the title this season the amount of times he has had to back out to avoid Verstappen this season, if he had not it would be over by now. Verstappen doesn't seem to understand the long game in the race.
Verstappen's view is that every corner is his regardless of position, in front or behind, if he's behind he just doesn't brake till way after the braking point so he by time he actually get's to the corner , the other driver has to have already backed out to avoid the collision or has slowed sufficently that to make the corner and is pushed wide by max missing the corner, we have seen that time and time again over the years and again this year with him.
One of the the big issues is that no one seems to have told him he had a car which could actually win the title this season, so he has been driving it like he has in past seasons where it was below par and he had to do whatever neccessary to get decent results.
I just hope for his sake that if he doesn't win this year, that RB give him a decent car in the coming years and he doesnt go down as one of the best drivers never to win the WDC.
It's entirely predicatble he will take out Hamilton at Abu Dhabi
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That weekend proves that Max isn’t an elite driver yet. Shit the bed in Q3 and gifted pole to his rival. Racked up a total of 15 seconds of penalties with his driving in the race. Red Bull know they’ve lost this now, only a technical issue or contact will stop Lewis at Abu Dhabi.
But yeah emotions are supposed to be servants not masters. Max obviously will be one of the greatest F1 drivers provided he sorts his head out and doesn’t kill himself driving like a tit.
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Quote ( Finn Shaw-McIver @ December 6th 2021,11:58:08 ) Absolutely bizzare that the stewards admitted he brake tested him, then only gave a 10s penalty?? The reason these things keep happening such as in Brazil is that they let him get away with it. Why not mention that those things started happening since Silverstone?
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Quote ( Martti Kaasik @ December 6th 2021,14:15:36 ) Quote ( Finn Shaw-McIver @ December 6th 2021,11:58:08 )
Absolutely bizzare that the stewards admitted he brake tested him, then only gave a 10s penalty?? The reason these things keep happening such as in Brazil is that they let him get away with it. Why not mention that those things started happening since Silverstone?
because they where happening before silverstone too, his driving standards have always been bad but this is the first season the red bull has been around over cars on pace for a long while, for a long time it was slower than Mercedes but quicker than everything else
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Quote ( Peter Willmore @ December 6th 2021,14:18:03 )
Quote ( Martti Kaasik @ December 6th 2021,14:15:36 )
Quote ( Finn Shaw-McIver @ December 6th 2021,11:58:08 )
Absolutely bizzare that the stewards admitted he brake tested him, then only gave a 10s penalty?? The reason these things keep happening such as in Brazil is that they let him get away with it. Why not mention that those things started happening since Silverstone?
because they where happening before silverstone too
it’s been happening his whole career.
hence the nickname Crashtappen.
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There is a higher chance of Bottas taking out VER or PER taking out HAM because none of the two drivers would take a risk on themselves as they can get disqualified from the season. If they take the other driver out.
Yesterday Bottas almost took Verstappen out at the restart with the lockup.
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Do people seriously think RB/Merc will use Bottas or Perez as torpedoes? I mean, surely you have to be trolling to come up with such scenarios. If it goes wheel to wheel in the last laps/corners between the two, I can see none of the two of Max and Lewis backing up, but these scenarios are laughable.
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Quote ( Marius Ruţa @ December 6th 2021,14:38:19 ) Do people seriously think RB/Merc will use Bottas or Perez as torpedoes? I mean, surely you have to be trolling to come up with such scenarios. If it goes wheel to wheel in the last laps/corners between the two, I can see none of the two of Max and Lewis backing up, but these scenarios are laughable.
I doubt it too, but Bottas definitely wouldn’t , he’s leaving Merc, so doing himself no favours.
Can’t see Perez doing it either, risking safety and a disciplinary.
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Mick S can also help keep the most world champs record in the family ;)
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#1452 Publicado el 6-Dic-2021, 15:10:58 (última edición el 6-Dic-2021, 15:12:15 por Luke Frost)
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This officiating has been almost as bad as the NFL lately. How is it acceptable that a team can negotiate with the stewards over the penalty recieved? The stewards' job is to discipline the drivers and maintain a level playing field, but it seems like everyone's being left in the dark as to the decision making process and the clarification of when the rules apply. It makes it seem as though the results are fixed to make it seem like the championship is closer than it actually is to attract ratings.
To say nothing of the lack of respect the two title protagonists have for each other, neither of them are likeable anymore, nor does anyone seem to have any integrity. Sure they'll be wearing their coloured t shirts but are they willing to put their money where their mouth is and show any respect on or off track? No. To be honest I think the Jeddah circuit exceeded expectations as far as providing a great race was concered, but that does not detract from the human rights issues, and no amount of posturing will change that.
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Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ December 6th 2021,15:12:17 ) How is it acceptable that a team can negotiate with the stewards over the penalty recieved?
Found that quite refreshing tbh. It was also a bit of a take it or leave it deal, not a negotiation: either give the spaces back or get a time penalty... this at least offered a way out that kept the decisions on-track, rather than outside.
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Quote ( Miel Soeterbroek @ December 6th 2021,15:18:44 ) Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ December 6th 2021,15:12:17 )
How is it acceptable that a team can negotiate with the stewards over the penalty recieved?
Found that quite refreshing tbh. It was also a bit of a take it or leave it deal, not a negotiation: either give the spaces back or get a time penalty... this at least offered a way out that kept the decisions on-track, rather than outside.
That was the way I saw it. It seemed like a "give the position back or risk a 5 second penalty" scenario but in a red flag situation. Made interesting listening.
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Quote ( Luke Frost @ December 6th 2021,15:10:58 ) Quote ( Shaun Thornton @ December 6th 2021,14:19:46 )
it’s been happening his whole career.
hence the nickname Crashtappen.
In 2021 it is always Verstappen...
In 2018 it was always Vettel...
In 2016 it was always Rosberg...
In 2007 it was always Alonso...
https://racingnews365.com/who-is-involved-in-more-on-track-i...
Don't forget all those crashes Massa caused in 2011.. 😅
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Just an old article, even from before VER was on the F1 circus ... Maybe something to keep in mind when calling VER the bad boy again. Not my writing, not my bias, but an opportunity to zip a little less Union Jack ;)
> https://www.racefans.net/2011/11/03/lewis-hamilton-35-incide...
In short, it's probably not changing current (biased) views on VER, but it should clarify HAM is not a choirboy either, far from it!
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Quote ( Joe Manifold @ December 6th 2021,15:23:14 ) That was the way I saw it. It seemed like a "give the position back or risk a 5 second penalty" scenario but in a red flag situation. Made interesting listening.
Exactly, both the red flag and the fact that Ocon also profited made it a bit of a weird situation (beyond just giving back position on track a corner later)
It was a bit unclear though (again), they first offered RB to drop to 2nd, but they meant 3rd, behind Ham. That back and forth between Masi and both teams was indeed quite entertaining
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Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ December 6th 2021,15:40:35 ) Just an old article, even from before VER was on the F1 circus ... Maybe something to keep in mind when calling VER the bad boy again. Not my writing, not my bias, but an opportunity to zip a little less Union Jack ;)
> https://www.racefans.net/2011/11/03/lewis-hamilton-35-incide...
In short, it's probably not changing current (biased) views on VER, but it should clarify HAM is not a choirboy either, far from it!
Hamilton is of course no angel. He does seem to me to be a reaction driver (if he hasn't already been aggressive and squeezed someone off the track), if he feels he has been slighted by someone he will respond in kind, the forcing off the track at the last corner when he got past Verstappen (or was let through), the aggressive move across the track to cut off the inside at Brazil when he got past, and is quick to squeeze off others. I've never liked that style, I'm not a fan of "hard racing" especially when used as an excuse for unsportsmanlike racing. I've been critical of Hamilton in these forums plenty of times over the years (and called a hater for it), but I much prefer good racing, side by side instead of having track position and forcing others off by driving wide onto the kerbs when their opponent is on the outside. If that is hard racing, I don't want any of it.
I think my favourite part of that article was this line:
"You can make a lot of criticisms about the FIA stewards: They are not always consistent. They too rarely give explanations for their more contentious decision."
Was the case 10 years ago, still a big problem now. FIA really need to decide what kind of racing they want and enforce it properly, the inconsistency breeds racing like what happened yesterday. Blurred lines make drivers push the limits more, just like teams with their car development. Next week will be popcorn-worthy as I'm sure everything is going to boil over and explode.
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Quote ( Miel Soeterbroek @ December 6th 2021,15:00:19 ) Mick S can also help keep the most world champs record in the family ;)
By destroying his reputation? I don't think so. Michael said himself " records are made to be broken"
Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ December 6th 2021,15:12:17 ) How is it acceptable that a team can negotiate with the stewards over the penalty recieved? Which team was allowed to do that, pleas show me!
What I heard it was race direktor made an offer to RB to give position back BEFORE stewards would take matters to them self.
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Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ December 6th 2021,15:40:35 ) In short, it's probably not changing current (biased) views on VER, but it should clarify HAM is not a choirboy either, far from it!
No doubt has Hamilton been involved in many incidents over his long career, and especially 2011 wasn't a very strong year of him, but all the incidents mentioned in that article happened at least 10 years ago.
Hamilton made some crucial mistakes this year (Baku & Imola come to mind first for me), but his wheel-to-wheel racing was pretty clean. It was always him to take evasive action, he avoided contact at the start in Spain, Silverstone (T6, after the Wellington Straight), Monza and of course recently in Brasil and several times yesterday. When he didn't do that, they crashed (Silverstone & Monza), since Verstappen is almost never the one to give up a corner.
Pretty much his entire career I wanted to see Hamilton lose (I am/was a big fan of Massa and Vettel and don't want to see Schumachers last important record being broken), but I'm definitly rooting for him at the final race, cause I don't want to see Verstappens strategy of forcing drivers off track and forcing them to avoid crashes being succesful.
I expect Verstappen to go for the double DNF if Mercedes turns out to be faster though; but I still hope they both keep it clean, going into the final on level points is absolutely amazing and it would be a shame if this great season would be decided in a court in January or something like that.
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Quote ( Philipp Witzmann @ December 6th 2021,17:32:41 ) going into the final on level points is absolutely amazing and it would be a shame if this great season would be decided in a court in January or something like that.
That would be the worst to happen. And still, it is far from over. Most people had written yesterday's race in the build up as Hamilton winning, yet Verstappen nearly got poll and was leading for much of the race. Obviously with fortuitous circumstances, but it showed that anything can happen and it was far from a walkover than was predicted (especially from some here that I won't name, who have now said the same about next week). Verstappen won the race in Abu Dhabi last year after getting pole position and leading from the start to the end. There wasn't much up for stake, but still shows they can be strong at Abu Dhabi. Especially with their car being more than a match for Mercedes this year, I would say they go into this race 50/50. Verstappen has showed he will never give up, so the season is definitely not over. It is sure setting up a thrilling end that hopefully can be fought cleanly enough that doesn't warrant post-race investigations.
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Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ December 6th 2021,15:40:35 ) Just an old article, even from before VER was on the F1 circus ... Maybe something to keep in mind when calling VER the bad boy again. Not my writing, not my bias, but an opportunity to zip a little less Union Jack ;)
> https://www.racefans.net/2011/11/03/lewis-hamilton-35-incide...
In short, it's probably not changing current (biased) views on VER, but it should clarify HAM is not a choirboy either, far from it!
its the F1 forum 2021 so not relevant @Niels Van Heijster (P20) i'm sure the discussion passed on this a long time ago,
i'm sure you had a go at me for quoting an old example post #1248. in the F1 2021 forum for mentioning a 2021 f1 incident. saying
Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ November 14th 2021,23:24:58 )
@Shaun Thornton (M3) - This ...
Quote ( Shaun Thornton @ November 14th 2021,21:12:06 )
... and not checking Ham ok after the collision ... ... is just uncalled for. That discussion has passed a long time ago, two sides to the story, both not accepted by the other party! You wouldn't wanna rekindle the Silverstone sage either. What 's said on past occasions is done, no need for this at all. We should just agree to disagree without reminiscing old news or heated debates. When we don't, there's no end to the lists any side could put forward.
bit hypocritical.
raking up a 10 year old article to prove a point is comedy.
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Quote ( Luke Frost @ December 6th 2021,15:10:58 ) Quote ( Shaun Thornton @ December 6th 2021,14:19:46 )
it’s been happening his whole career.
hence the nickname Crashtappen.
In 2021 it is always Verstappen...
In 2018 it was always Vettel...
In 2016 it was always Rosberg...
In 2007 it was always Alonso...
https://racingnews365.com/who-is-involved-in-more-on-track-i...
yea but CrashettelCrasberg doesn't have the same ring does it?
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Here is a more accurate representation of their penalty points rather than picking at time period which suited the article writer :)
https://f1.fandom.com/wiki/Penalty_points
Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ December 6th 2021,15:40:35 ) Just an old article, even from before VER was on the F1 circus ... Maybe something to keep in mind when calling VER the bad boy again. Not my writing, not my bias, but an opportunity to zip a little less Union Jack ;)
> https://www.racefans.net/2011/11/03/lewis-hamilton-35-incide...
In short, it's probably not changing current (biased) views on VER, but it should clarify HAM is not a choirboy either, far from it!
This article is from 2011 so we are talking th infancy of Hamilton's career , this would be like looking at Verstappen from 2017/18ish, no one doubts Verstappens talent but his temper gets the better of him sometimes and you could tell this was happening in the race yesterday
Quote ( Miel Soeterbroek @ December 6th 2021,15:18:44 )
Found that quite refreshing tbh. It was also a bit of a take it or leave it deal, not a negotiation: either give the spaces back or get a time penalty... this at least offered a way out that kept the decisions on-track, rather than outside.
it was interesting to hear but it seems that it at least contributed towards the accident between hamilton and Verstappen as Red Bull had agreed and told Verstappen before Mercedes had the information and were able to relay it to Hamilton leading to the confusion, which in the context of everything the else pushed Verstappens buttons to cause him to apply extra force to his brakes causing the accident (stewards Decision)
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Quote ( Miel Soeterbroek @ December 6th 2021,15:00:19 ) Mick S can also help keep the most world champs record in the family ;)
Not most Miel, equal 7=7, and Hamilton has the most wins so makes him the supreme driver.
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Quote ( Shaun Thornton @ December 6th 2021,18:29:00 ) raking up a 10 year old article to prove a point is comedy.
Is it just as hypocritical as to keep referring to Crashstappen every chance you get? Or putting people into boxes/corners calling them hypocritical and what have you not every time a reference is made that is not confirming to your POV?
I linked that article in reference to the notion that VER is seemingly pure evil, at least to some in here. Always there when there's a crash if you will, and if so he would surely be the perpetrator. We were all, I think, happy when VER arrived and stirred the grid. His style was called "refreshing". Now he's all the way up front and he still gets the blame always(!) whenever something happens, even when he is not at fault. VER is in F1 now for 7 yrs, the linked article covered 5yrs. The article was meant to put in perspective what VER did over the past few years, compared to HAM performance in his early years. If that shatters your perfect image, then it only underlines what has been evident for some time now
The quote you referenced was me trying to get things back to sort of normal in here. Things get heated up and, from my POV, out of line at times. Yet you keep at your own behavior, nothing that brings you to a different POV. You can use Crashtappen at will, essentially references past events, but you are unable to leave space for others to discuss their POV. As when something doesn't sit right with your POV, you get the mower out and try to chop all down, ever so eloquently.
You can try and bully me and others out of here by making stinky remarks from atop your high horse, ever trying to twist and turn remarks and words. It doesn't matter what, you will always find a way to turn around any remark that has been made. When will you start to understand that not all will be siding with you, it's one of those enjoyable perks in our beloved free world. You could try to create a post once without some low jabbing. Really, give it a try once, it should feel liberating!
I'm not into rekindling the debate on Silverstone, Baku, Hungary and the likes. And to be clear, I'm not defending VER on yesterday's race, but even you would have to admit that MERC/BOT/HAM got away with a whole lot this weekend. Just a reprimande for HAM related to the situation with MAZ, and accordingly a 25k fine for the team. In your way of thinking, MAZ life apparently is worth 25k, where barely touching a MERC wing is worth 50k ... go figure!
A good thing this is starting up in 2014, missing HAM's infant years in F1. Good thing that was disclosed in the other link going back to HAM's infant years in F1. As that spans 5yrs I would say it's a better match with VER first 7yrs in F1. I also wouldn't say it's all about temper with VER, more a high win-mentality.
I'm not blind to what he did so far, nor am I blind on what MERC/HAM are doing. There's been a whole PR machine going now for a good number of seasons, in which VER is portrait just like that, tempered and ruthless. It's not really representative of reality and one shouldn't be blinded either by all "angelic faces" ...
But hey, that's my POV ;)
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Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ December 6th 2021,19:46:54 ) Quote ( Shaun Thornton @ December 6th 2021,18:29:00 )
raking up a 10 year old article to prove a point is comedy.
Is it just as hypocritical as to keep referring to Crashstappen every chance you get? Or putting people into boxes/corners calling them hypocritical and what have you not every time a reference is made that is not confirming to your POV?
I linked that article in reference to the notion that VER is seemingly pure evil, at least to some in here. Always there when there's a crash if you will, and if so he would surely be the perpetrator. We were all, I think, happy when VER arrived and stirred the grid. His style was called "refreshing". Now he's all the way up front and he still gets the blame always(!) whenever something happens, even when he is not at fault. VER is in F1 now for 7 yrs, the linked article covered 5yrs. The article was meant to put in perspective what VER did over the past few years, compared to HAM performance in his early years. If that shatters your perfect image, then it only underlines what has been evident for some time now
The quote you referenced was me trying to get things back to sort of normal in here. Things get heated up and, from my POV, out of line at times. Yet you keep at your own behavior, nothing that brings you to a different POV. You can use Crashtappen at will, essentially references past events, but you are unable to leave space for others to discuss their POV. As when something doesn't sit right with your POV, you get the mower out and try to chop all down, ever so eloquently.
You can try and bully me and others out of here by making stinky remarks from atop your high horse, ever trying to twist and turn remarks and words. It doesn't matter what, you will always find a way to turn around any remark that has been made. When will you start to understand that not all will be siding with you, it's one of those enjoyable perks in our beloved free world. You could try to create a post once without some low jabbing. Really, give it a try once, it should feel liberating!
I'm not into rekindling the debate on Silverstone, Baku, Hungary and the likes. And to be clear, I'm not defending VER on yesterday's race, but even you would have to admit that MERC/BOT/HAM got away with a whole lot this weekend. Just a reprimande for HAM related to the situation with MAZ, and accordingly a 25k fine for the team. In your way of thinking, MAZ life apparently is worth 25k, where barely touching a MERC wing is worth 50k ... go figure!
Quote ( Peter Willmore @ December 6th 2021,19:25:41 )
Here is a more accurate representation of their penalty points rather than picking at time period which suited the article writer :)
https://f1.fandom.com/wiki/Penalty_points
A good thing this is starting up in 2014, missing HAM's infant years in F1. Good thing that was disclosed in the other link going back to HAM's infant years in F1. As that spans 5yrs I would say it's a better match with VER first 7yrs in F1. I also wouldn't say it's all about temper with VER, more a high win-mentality.
I'm not blind to what he did so far, nor am I blind on what MERC/HAM are doing. There's been a whole PR machine going now for a good number of seasons, in which VER is portrait just like that, tempered and ruthless. It's not really representative of reality and one shouldn't be blinded either by all "angelic faces" ...
But hey, that's my POV ;)
you put the I'm a really nice bloke mask on @Niels Van Heijster (P20) , but in this very thread you are the worst for resorting to bullying and personal abuse, directed at Sudeep. do i need to reference your bullying and abuse again?
That's why i took exception with you, you were riding on the back of the Hamilton Hate wave and thought you could get away with it.
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What did Sudeep posted in every single post in this thread every one knows. He used to irritate everyone completely.
Not seen a more biased person than him in this thread.
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I guess you missed my open apology to Sudeep, twice even ...
It fits your pick as you please, and give it a spin attitude being Mr. Nice Guy :)
And the bullyong part here, I never expressed to hate HAM, yet you want all to believd I do time and again. That's just wrong behavior, bully style, my dear.
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