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Tema: [F1] 2021 season |
1741 respuestas
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Quote ( Sudeep Pednekar @ December 12th 2021,17:03:36 ) if they had pitted they would have lost track position again.
They would, but the field would have been bunched up and the roles would have been reversed Sudeep. Are you saying you wouldn't have confidence in Lewis in that scenario then of having to attack the win on fresh tyres?
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ December 12th 2021,16:57:35 ) I think there shouldn't be race comms from the team principles to the race director, only comms from the Race director to them, cos I do agree that he should be left to take care of race safety. All the lost time, and influence. Race Director should stand above all, and just take decisions. Also should not be open to the public as they are now.. Way too much pressure.
Quote ( Sudeep Pednekar @ December 12th 2021,17:03:36 ) Nah, Mercedes did the right thing, wrong, and the proof are the two statements you make after.
Quote ( Sudeep Pednekar @ December 12th 2021,17:03:36 ) they didn't pit during the VSC because track position Because RedBull was there to pressure them and forced them to make the mistake.
Quote ( Sudeep Pednekar @ December 12th 2021,17:03:36 ) During the SC if they had pitted they would have lost track position Because RedBull was there to pressure them and forced them to make the mistake.
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ December 12th 2021,17:07:44 ) Are you saying you wouldn't have confidence in Lewis in that scenario then of having to attack the win on fresh tyres?
The safety car was never going to come in if normal procedure was followed. Did you see the screenshot I posted? If Mercedes had pitted and there were no racing laps Max would win. Why risk losing track position in such a position.
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I just have to say 2 things as HAM fan.
1- IMO Is super sad the way FIA have affected this championship, we've lost so much deciding this championship on the desks (whoever wins).
2- Max deserve the champ because he drove like a champion the whole season.
I'm happy to see this battle, i'm happy to see the lewis we didn't see during these last years!
Cheers guys
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I think both drivers equally deserved the win, in this occasion it was Merc that made a strategically bad decision and that cost them te win. It's sad they're now complaining and trying to win by lawyer like what happened so many times before this season (by both RB &Merc)
Take an example from Lewis and just accept it. It was a bad call to leave him out, you screwed up so own it. Lewis did, like a great champion
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Quote ( Upeo Unaozidi @ December 12th 2021,16:46:00 ) Max, max , max
sorry guys ..... MAX . MAX . MAX !!!!
SUPER SUPER MAX MAX, SUPER SUPER MAX MAX !!!
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Quote ( Sudeep Pednekar @ December 12th 2021,17:03:36 ) Nah, Mercedes did the right thing, they didn't pit during the VSC because track position was king and you saw that, Max couldn't make the time up. During the SC if they had pitted they would have lost track position again.
But they did lose it still and now Verstappen is champion
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The protests and the chaos has started.
Least it didn't come to an on-track collision, which would have caused a lot more uncivilised ruckus :D
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F1 todas is pure showbusiness no more a racing sport. The most closer ever championship wouldn't finish Belinda a Safety car! The show must gols on!
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ December 12th 2021,16:57:35 ) I think there shouldn't be race comms from the team principles to the race director, only comms from the Race director to them, cos I do agree that he should be left to take care of race safety. Both Toto and Christian horner were trying to influence his decision making and in my view the comm feed between principles and race director should be one way only, not two way, cos from a safety point of view that isn't good conduct (from both of them).
Not only the influence but Michael Masi has ended up sounding pretty unprofessional at least two races in a row now with his spontaneous replies to them. It's not a good look for him or the sport and just increases the impression that the decisions are arbitrary. They do have to be arbitrary sometimes of course, but now we can say he selectively let cars unlap themselves to create a race rather than because it was the correct thing to do by the rulebook. Better he stayed silent and kept his reasoning to himself.
I do think it was a big gamble by Merc to not pit at the VSC. Unsurprising though, they often seem frozen in the headlights when the big ballsy decisions are needed (and when the pit wall do make a call there's 50:50 odds Lewis overrule them anyway).
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I don't think anything will be overturned, but Masi needs to resign for overseeing that shambles. It's incredibly unfair on Lewis and would be incredibly unfair in Max if it were overturned.
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F1 is just a cirkus, F1 is a madness with that rule so unfear
so unfear,
it is not Hamilton fault
how can a jumbo driver decide this foul.
what is type of rule, an new start must compare in
the same distance not just a behind
Hamilton lead the race with 10 seconds
he must be 10 seconds ahead even in the new start
so crazy , F1 is not a sport.
i hope Mercedes decide not to continue in this madness anymore
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Quote ( Finn Shaw-McIver @ December 12th 2021,18:07:36 ) I don't think anything will be overturned, but Masi needs to resign for overseeing that shambles. It's incredibly unfair on Lewis and would be incredibly unfair in Max if it were overturned.
Its just a shame that the result will be decided by the stewards, Two strange decisions lap 1 and the safety car episde.
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#1635 Publicado el 12-Dic-2021, 18:40:46 (última edición el 12-Dic-2021, 18:44:11 por Rui Morais)
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Quote ( Roland Postle @ December 12th 2021,18:02:19 ) Unsurprising though, they often seem frozen in the headlights when the big ballsy decisions are needed
True.
Red Bull had nothing to loose, I know, but it took big red bull balls to take that decision, and mercedes just had no decision, they stayed there with their olive sized balls, just watching...
Glad this season is over.
Looking forward to see some of the new talents like Sainz, Norris, Leclerc, Russel, and some teams more competitive like McLaren, Williams, Alpine & even Ferrari.
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Quote ( Ken Neihart @ December 12th 2021,16:11:19 ) I like how the Hamboi fans are complaining about the call made at the end but are hush hush on the call made at the beginning of the race.
The decision on lap 1 was super-odd, not because Lewis wasn't told to give the place up but because of the whole needless explanation about how he had in fact gained an advantage but then given it up. Huh?
He was forced off track to avoid a collision which is totally fine. He's under no obligation to brake and give up the place just because of that. If he gained any lasting advantage it was merely not having his car a tangled mess in the barrier along with Max's. And he can't be expected to give that up :)
I think they deemed he'd cut more of the corner than necessary to avoid a collision and therefore gained a time advantage (hence he was about 1sec down the road suddenly) but nobody ever cared about that before, especially on a first lap. It was a little sneaky of Lewis to ensure he kept the place that way but it was probably also the safest way to rejoin the track, and no more sneaky than Max trying to force the controversial situation in the first place.
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Can the stewards overturn the desicion about the lapped cars to pass the safety car, was hamilton doing what max did in the last race brake testing Max. Give Lewis a penalty for lap one and again overturn the original decision. A right mess caused by Masi
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#1638 Publicado el 12-Dic-2021, 18:53:06 (última edición el 12-Dic-2021, 18:59:07 por Nate Lung)
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I’m of the opinion that, if Mercedes decided to pit and Red Bull kept Max out (either time), putting Lewis behind Max on fresh tyres, then Masi would have made the same decision at the end as far as unlapping cars and going racing for one lap. Because of that, I have no problem with the decision. It’s the same as refereeing in football. You’ll upset SOMEONE with the decision that is made 95% of the time.
Edit -
And on Lap 1, they’ve said all season that want to let people race and not give penalties (ie The statement Alonso tried to make in Sochi). So ultimately, I think there was actually some consistency this season.
I guess, as a football referee, I sympathize with Masi :P
- End Edit
I’m happy for Max and gutted for Lewis. I think both of them were phenomenal all season (and change my earlier opinion of how they should feel after the season). I do however, hold both Horner and Wolff to a higher standard, and agree that next season director-to-team radio should be one way. (Or start fining or penalizing for team-to-director comms that are anything other than asking for an explanation of a decision.)
But regardless, the hero for me was Checo. He gave everything and compromised for the sake of Max this weekend, and when it mattered for Merc, Valtteri was nowhere to be found. And Checo defended on extremely worn softs.
Here’s to hoping the new cars level the playing field a little next season, giving more teams the chance to win races. (As long as it isn’t as balanced as Formula E! Lol)
Edit 2- Imagine the fight if any of Lewis, George, Max, Charles, Carlos, Fernando, Seb… have equal cars.
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Quote ( Roland Postle @ December 12th 2021,18:46:58 ) Quote ( Ken Neihart @ December 12th 2021,16:11:19 )
I like how the Hamboi fans are complaining about the call made at the end but are hush hush on the call made at the beginning of the race.
The decision on lap 1 was super-odd, not because Lewis wasn't told to give the place up but because of the whole needless explanation about how he had in fact gained an advantage but then given it up. Huh?
He was forced off track to avoid a collision which is totally fine. He's under no obligation to brake and give up the place just because of that. If he gained any lasting advantage it was merely not having his car a tangled mess in the barrier along with Max's. And he can't be expected to give that up :)
I think they deemed he'd cut more of the corner than necessary to avoid a collision and therefore gained a time advantage (hence he was about 1sec down the road suddenly) but nobody ever cared about that before, especially on a first lap. It was a little sneaky of Lewis to ensure he kept the place that way but it was probably also the safest way to rejoin the track, and no more sneaky than Max trying to force the controversial situation in the first place.
I don't see it that way. Lewis had an awesome start but then let the door open in turn 6. Of course Max would lunge, and he did it without getting off the track, so to me it was a pretty good maneuver. Lewis, OTOH, just acceleraed in a straight line to rejoin the race way ahead of where he could possibly do if he was to make the chicane.
Max is deserving of the championship. If not for Silverstone and Hungaroring, this championship would be over 2 races ago.
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Haven't been around for ages. But damn, I have remembered how angry I was when Hamilton won his first title I the last lap against Massa. Ages after karma returned it. So, I'm happy to see Hamilton fans feel my pain 13 years ago :D
Honest review. The final decision was a mess, but it is done. Let us not forget FIA had taken wrong decisions in "favor" of both drivers. In another world without some stupid decisions, Hamilton would not be in the fight for the title in the last race, or MAx wouldn't need to finish in front of Hamilton to win the title. So lets enjoy to this amazing season.
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Despite the result (because I agree with Nate that Masi would have taken the exact same decision if Lewis would have been behind Max) I think today's race set a terrible precedent.
Seems article 15.3 entitles Masi to do what he did today and now we saw the worse possible outcome of something that has been happening all season: incompetent people taking debatable decisions. Yes, I agree with this thing of "letting them race" but we do have rules. Those rules, amongst other things, are there to secure a fair racing. And what happened today was not fair. Not with Lewis but also not with the cars that weren't allowed to unlap theirselves.
I wouldn't like the title to be reversed in a court, but I hope FIA acknowledges they behaved wrong today. And put someone competent in Masi's place next season for the sake of God.
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First protest dismissed
We have a first decision.
The Mercedes appeal regarding Verstappen overtaking under a safety car has been dismissed. That could have been a five-second time penalty had the stewards decided Verstappen had overtaken Hamilton, so big news for Red Bull that there’s no further action there.
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The whole problem is the way the safety car is implemented as well as the VSC. There is plenty of technology to make cars go a steady e.g. 120 km/u for a total lap or just part of the track and have a rule that a full course yellow should last at least 1+ lap or so, so that every body can pit under yellow if they want. NO need for cars to unlap themselfs. No sneaky tactics with carlengths or holding up ppl for a stacked pitstop. But still a gamble to pit under yellow and gain a little in the pitlane.
I do understand that cleaning up a track will be difficult when cars are spread over the whole circuit, but than you can red flag the race.
And ditch the repair and change tyre options under a red flag.
Anyways - happy a non Merc driver finally delivered, since Bottas was not a match for Lewis.
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#1644 Publicado el 12-Dic-2021, 19:44:49 (última edición el 12-Dic-2021, 19:45:05 por Tim Wagner)
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Mercedes had a QC (Queen's Counsil) lawyer with them, which was always frowned upon in F1 to have these with you.
I had some pity for them but that just pissed me off again.
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In case of luck, Revenge for 2008 when Glock was driving so slow and Hamilton did overtake him in last corner in Interlagos and won Championship title over Massa.(but yes, i think directors of the race first thought that will finish under safety car, becouse there was a fire on Latifi monopost, so they decide to not let the cars lapped to overtake safetycar, but it was cleaned faster and sure nobody wanted to finish the season under safetycar, so they did all for at least 1 race lap. It was all about situation on track. They do not preffered any driver. But i think they knew, that if they will not start it, Hamilton will be champion, and if they start it, Verstappen have big chance to be a champion. But its racing, and it have to be decided on track. If they would not start it, even when the track was already clear, that would be bigger disaster, as its a F1 racing sport.)
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For me, I have only two notes:
1) Both drivers deserved to be a champion in this season
2) Masi should be fired
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When I started my interest in F1 racing roughly 37 years ago, I never imagined a day like this would come. In fact, I never imagined any Dutch driver would ever win a GP... So I'm absolutely thrilled by this seasons end, but I don't think it would be much less thrilled if things had thumbled towards Hamilton, because let's face it; Lewis controlled the race from start to 1 lap before finish. But this is also motorsport; one bad decision and the wrong moment can change the result completely. I'm sure if Merc had made the call to get Ham in for fresh tyres and RB would have stayed out (at least with 1 driver) Lewis would have won the race hence the championship as well.
This season hasn't been without controversy. In fact, I think a bit too much controversy for the sports itself. But boy, what a season it has been! I think this was one of the very few seasons in the past decadey, where one could say 'there's only winners' and that applies to the public or 'the show' in particular but also to for 2 very talented and simply the 2 best drivers. It clearly shows that that most of Lewis' 7 titles weren't only bceause he hardly had any competition; he simply IS outstanding
Anything that can touch emotion, good or bad, is worth it. And whatever the outcome, I 'glad I didn;t miss a single second of the past season!
Quote ( Martti Kaasik @ December 12th 2021,19:36:52 ) First protest dismissed
We have a first decision.
The Mercedes appeal regarding Verstappen overtaking under a safety car has been dismissed. That could have been a five-second time penalty had the stewards decided Verstappen had overtaken Hamilton, so big news for Red Bull that there’s no further action there.
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That was the most critical one as I actually thought they might have a point there. Everything else is controversial from race control vs the rule book and not from a driver point of views, so everything will remain as is.
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Totally tainted World Championship. And it'll hang over it forever.
"Oh, is that when they changed the rules with 3 laps to go under the safety car for the drama"
No wonder people think F1 is a joke. It is tbf.
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Quote ( Andrej Fülöp @ December 12th 2021,19:45:10 ) In case of luck, Revenge for 2008 when Glock was driving so slow and Hamilton did overtake him in last corner in Interlagos and won Championship title over Massa.(but yes, i think directors of the race first thought that will finish under safety car, becouse there was a fire on Latifi monopost, so they decide to not let the cars lapped to overtake safetycar, but it was cleaned faster and sure nobody wanted to finish the season under safetycar, so they did all for at least 1 race lap. It was all about situation on track. They do not preffered any driver. But i think they knew, that if they will not start it, Hamilton will be champion, and if they start it, Verstappen have big chance to be a champion. But its racing, and it have to be decided on track. If they would not start it, even when the track was already clear, that would be bigger disaster, as its a F1 racing sport.)
That was Adrian Suttil, but I agree with you.
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Quote ( Alexei Malkin @ December 12th 2021,19:59:16 ) For me, I have only two notes:
1) Both drivers deserved to be a champion in this season
2) Masi should be fired
First: I agree with you.
And second: I agree with you. :)
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