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Topic: Where will Hamilton go??? |
111 replies
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Quote ( Guy Lecky-Thompson @ December 19th 2020,13:29:16 ) Quote ( MG van Rensburg @ December 19th 2020,10:05:45 )
By lifting Mercedes to what they are, from what they were, his 'stupid' move from Mclaren to Mercedes all those years ago, he's quite literally already done precisely this and proven his ability to lift a team around him if anybody cared about actual history books instead of their feelings/opinions.
Care to share a reference? I'll admit you hit a nerve as I had thought myself reasonably well-informed, and, on top of it, I'm also Hamilton fan(boy). There. I said it.
In all seriousness, I'd like to learn a bit more as it's clear that I'm letting my current view of the team's apparent capabilities (drivers included) get in the way my ability to conduct any serious debate on the topic.
What I'd thought was going to be a bit of pub banter has actually got me thinking (eek) and if anyone has some decent (recent) F1 history books with proper research behind them (i.e. comparative and not just 'team' books) then I'd happily take 'em on recommendation.
When Hamilton left Mclaren to join Mercedes, he left a world championship team to join a proverbial midfield team. It was such a controversial decision, that many pundits quite literally called him an idiot and the decision career ending, there was even talk he'd not win another race again in his career, the decision was so bad regarding Mercs status at the time.
His first season with Merc was a tough one. He worked hard. Hamilton quite literally did lift a midfield team to become so dominant after his arrival.
As much as I dont like Hamilton, its still an entertaining look at history, those predictions and opinions of experts back then, and then the reality of what we have now. Quite something. If only the bloke wasnt such idiotic ass of a clueless 'activist' on the side.
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#92 posted Dec 19th 2020, 17:11:59
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Who cares ! He’s not a real race car driver! It’s all done inside the car with electronics.
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#93 posted Dec 19th 2020, 17:41:42
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Quote ( Frank Stocco @ December 19th 2020,17:11:59 ) Who cares ! He’s not a real race car driver! It’s all done inside the car with electronics.
So who is a "real race car driver" to you then?
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#94 posted Dec 19th 2020, 18:33:47
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To be fair , Hamilton' has won in midfield cars before. McLaren 2009 where he won at Singapore (at which point McLaren were 5th in constructors until Suzuka) and then 2013 Mercedes. Hamilton has won in average equipment and I'd back him to do it again, should he ever end up so where like Aston Martin
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#95 posted Dec 19th 2020, 19:10:53
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Quote ( Frank Stocco @ December 19th 2020,17:11:59 ) Who cares ! He’s not a real race car driver! It’s all done inside the car with electronics.
In you get then :)
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#96 posted Dec 19th 2020, 19:12:28
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Quote ( Frank Stocco @ December 19th 2020,17:11:59 ) Who cares ! He’s not a real race car driver! It’s all done inside the car with electronics.
This was much more true 15-25 years ago than it is today. In those days the driver really only had to brake, steer and push the throttle pedal all the way again because everything else was taken care of by traction control, automatic gearboxes and launch control at the start. All of which have been outlawed for quite some time now.
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#97 posted Dec 19th 2020, 22:22:13
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Mercedes became so strong because of the hybrid not because of Hamilton.
Schumacher did al the work for Hamilton.
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#98 posted Dec 19th 2020, 23:31:42
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Quote ( Robbert Bultstra @ December 19th 2020,22:22:13 ) Mercedes became so strong because of the hybrid
Quote ( Robbert Bultstra @ December 19th 2020,22:22:13 ) Schumacher did al the work for Hamilton.
Considering Mercedes only started work on their 2014 V6 in late 2012 around the time Schumacher left, don't you think these two statements contradict eachother? ;)
But yeah Mercedes' instant rise to the top was obviously because of the rule changes for 2014. You can probably use that argument for 3 years, maybe 4, but after that everyone had caught up in that area. Didn't really see them struggle after that though either, except for maybe 2017 when Vettel had a great season, and 2018 if not for Hamilton being at his absolute peak. Bottas coming 5th in 2018, and over 150 points behind his team mate, proves it's not just a car that gets titles.
So sure, they caught the rest napping at the start, but even after everyone caught up they never stopped being dominant. Not sure Schumacher had much to do with that bit.
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#99 posted Dec 20th 2020, 00:46:08
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Yes until Russel became the fastest wen a race before he was the slowest.
That is the prove 80% off the fielt will be champ in Mercedes.
And yes Hamilton is a good driver but not so good as 7 titles.
Even Rosberg won it.
Now I wanna see Hamilton swap in a red bull or Ferrari and see if he will be 7 times champ. I don't think so.
Russel or Norris or Max 100% give them the Mercedes and they are champ t and much much cheaper😜
I'm Max fan really, I'm very scared of Russel will drive the Mercedes it's over🙈
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Quote ( Robbert Bultstra @ December 20th 2020,00:46:08 ) That is the prove 80% off the fielt will be champ in Mercedes.
Not really. That's the proof that in a race where the only other competitive car in the field (Verstappen's) crashes out, Russell was better than Bottas in the same car which is miles ahead of the competition. The #1 car also, should that have meant anything in terms of development stages. And it's not exactly written in stone that Bottas would be champ in a Mercedes either, given that in 2 of his 4 seasons there he's lost to a non-Mercedes in the championship, and the other two times he was pretty close to losing as well.
Quote ( Robbert Bultstra @ December 20th 2020,00:46:08 ) Russel or Norris or Max 100% give them the Mercedes and they are champ
I don't disagree, but if they got 7 titles in the best car by far, would you say the were as good as 7 titles? There's no differences here really. Hamilton probably wouldn't have been a 7 times champ in a RB or Ferrari just like Vettel, Leclerc and Verstappen aren't champs in those teams. And similarly if they were in Hamilton's spot, they would probabaly be 7+ times champs too.
Not really any argument to make here, but saying that Hamilton doesn't deserve his titles where other's in his position would, is extremely tunnel-visioned.
Quote ( Robbert Bultstra @ December 20th 2020,00:46:08 ) Even Rosberg won it.
If we're rating Schumacher so high for apparently being a reason behind Mercedes' current dominance, I think Rosberg deserves at least a bit of credit for thrashing him 3 seasons in a row in the same car.
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Quote ( Robbert Bultstra @ December 20th 2020,00:46:08 ) Yes until Russel became the fastest wen a race before he was the slowest.
Quote ( Robbert Bultstra @ December 20th 2020,00:46:08 ) Russel or Norris or Max 100% give them the Mercedes and they are champ t and much much cheaper😜
Is it me or have you literally just debunked your own theory?
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Hamilton is not going anywhere. Since joining the Silver Arrows, Hamilton has done what a Champion Driver does. He has grown in experience and built the car and team around himself.
The team harmony and the direction of car development is part of what Hamilton has done and does. It's what all WDC's need to do to claim a championship.
Russell did a good job but he may have over achieved to look that good. Regardless, Bottas looks like a bump on a log in the Mercedes machinery.
I hope to see a bit of racing action next season. Probably between Max and Sergio rather than Mercedes vs Red Bull.
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3 more years he will be at Mercedes. It will be finalized in January.
I think 2020 will be the last HAM-BOT Partnership. While I didnt buy into the Russell hype, dont get me wrong the kid did good, but on a track with only 4 real breaking zones and full throttle 75% of the lap he was always going to do well. Still reckon it could be 2021 HAM-RUS for the new rules.
As for VER-PER im hoping Sergio is given his chance to challenge HAM & VER but as its only a 1 year deal i suspect hes going to have to play the team game and support more often than not.
If nothing else lets hope we have a strong title challenge for HAM & Mercedes in 2021.
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I believe that if Hamilton were to win the title in 2021, he would choose to retire as the only one with 8 titles.
In 2022 everything will change in F1 and I think he does not agree with those changes.
Besides that he would retire through the front door of the show.
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Hamilton works well with his engineer and mechanics. He has experience in setting up the car for qualifying and race mode. He can also change during the race because he knows what is needed at any given time. That is why he is at the top of his game. His car parts , mainly the engine, last because he is not aggressive with the car. He can manage tyres better than most.
So my question is, why retire? No one has caught him up yet or got near him. He knows he has another 3 championships left in him and the team. Such a record and legacy may never be beaten. I doubt Schumacher would have stopped if he knew he had another season at the top.
Hamilton has something to prove. That is what drives him onwards and upwards.
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Hamilton wants a massive contract to end his F1 Career - given the current economic environment, I'm not sure the contract makes sense for the group, especially if he wants 4 years (rumored)
At the end of the day, this is a business... both sides are playing the business game, for sure.
I think that if for some odd reason Hamilton and Merc cannot come to terms, Merc could go to Russell and still win both the drivers and constructors championship in 2021, and they cannot be blind to this fact. Nor should Hamilton.
By no means am I saying Russell is on the same level Hamilton at this stage of his career, but given that car, they still win which is their goal. I would think Bottas would legit be a contender for the drivers if Hamilton was out of the picture given the machinery and his experience.
This is an interesting and unique situation... and clearly they are not on the same page. If they were, a contract would already be in place.
they can continue to be super diplomatic about it, but the bottom line is, at this point, they don't have an agreement and the only reason for that is they are FAR apart on the details of that contract.
My guess is, Hamilton wants guarantees and more money/term than the team is willing to give... which is obvious.
Anyways... ranting a bit.. but this is super interesting to watch because honestly, Mercedes holds the cards IMO. Hamilton is an amazing talent but we've seen that the car will carry. Yeah, we can downplay how Russell did due to the track or whatever the bottom line is, he did BETTER than bottas almost the entire weekend after literally just stepping in within 72 hours...(the car was literally too small) so comparing him to his teammate is the best way to determine if he is truly faster.
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Here is an update on Hamilton and his contract negotiations that he HAS NOT signed as yet.
1 - He wants £35m for 1 season
2 - A share of constructors winnings
3 - A permanent job in Mercedes when he has stopped racing
4 - A new Mercedes car under development that only 200 will be made. Cost estimate is 3/4 Million
Personally, I would show Hamilton the door. He is holding his employer to ransom. This is not about money, its about loyalty to an employer who put him where he is now. Oh, he wants £35 M because he has to be highest paid driver on the grid.
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Isn't he already the highest salary of the grid ? oO
I don't think anyone is anywhere close to that. Maybe Vettel, not even sure
EDIT :
Here’s a list of the 2020 grid’s salary table:
Lewis Hamilton, $47 million
Sebastian Vettel, $35 million
Daniel Ricciardo, $20 million
Max Verstappen, $16 million
Valtteri Bottas, $9 million
Charles Leclerc, $9 million
Kimi Raikkonen, $6 million
Carlos Sainz, $4.5 million
Sergio Perez, $4 million
Esteban Ocon, $4 million
Romain Grosjean, $2 million
Kevin Magnussen, $2 million
Alex Albon, $2 million
Lando Norris, $1.5 million
Lance Stroll, $1.5 million
Pierre Gasly, $1 million
Daniil Kvyat, $750,000
George Russell, $750,000
Nicholas Latifi, $750,000
Antonio Giovinazzi, $500,000
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To be honest I thought he made more than that. 35 million is not a shocking number at all in my opinion.
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Quote ( Farcy Génel @ January 4th 2021,19:03:18 ) Isn't he already the highest salary of the grid ? oO
I don't think anyone is anywhere close to that. Maybe Vettel, not even sure
Here is the RaceFans’ 2020 Formula 1 driver salary estimates
Team Driver Salary* (US)
Mercedes Lewis Hamilton $40m
Mercedes Valtteri Bottas $8m
Ferrari Sebastian Vettel $30m
Ferrari Charles Leclerc $10m
Red Bull Max Verstappen $25m
Red Bull Alexander Albon $2.5m
McLaren Carlos Sainz $8m
McLaren Lando Norris $2m
Renault Esteban Ocon $5m
Renault Daniel Ricciardo $20m
AlphaTauri Daniil Kvyat $2m
AlphaTauri Pierre Gasly $2m
Racing Point Sergio Perez $8m
Racing Point Lance Stroll $3m
Alfa Romeo Kimi Räikkönen $5m
Alfa Romeo Antonio Giovanazzi $1m
Haas Romain Grosjean $7m
Haas Kevin Magnussen $5m
Williams Nicolas Latifi $1m
Williams George Russell $1m
that is in USD. Lewis is making extra effort to make money that'll keep his family rich for generations, and rightfully so. He has become #1 ever according to stats this year. His drive at Istanbul proves his worth.
Lewis has won 7 championships. 7 years the champion in a 14 year career. It is incredible. Good for him becoming a businessman on the back end of that.
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I don't think Mercedes will let Lewis go most probably they will neogitate at some lower price to what lewis is demanding .According to what i heard the contract will be signed for 3 years probably in feb.
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He could disappear up his own ....
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