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Forum topic poll
should users of spiders be punished?
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Topic: spiders |
198 replies
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When it comes to making use of all the past data to create an excel and use the excel to help you do your setup, is not remotely close to having a tool to automatically parse data from the site, and other players.
if you have a tool that saves you a top of 400K a race. It is an advantage, but hey, paying supporter credits for 40 seasons has to have it's goods...
are we talking about the same about spiders?
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ June 2nd 2016,13:54:43 ) What's the difference between a tool that gives you your set up, for example, and one that gives you your set up and inputs it for you. It's surely just convenience and can't see it making any impact on the server, which is what the initial discussion regarding spiders was about?
Then why play the game if someone is literally just clicking a button. Surely we shouldn't encourage this game play?
I do understand Phils point about mistakes. However the most intelligent people in this game who have the best tools will know just about everything and them tools could be superior.
My personal use of tools is to check tyre distances, fuel and setup. I assume this is what most people do. Some tools will give a recc race strategy and will present part wear figures etc. Other tools may include sponsor data and monitor that.
It's doubtful a tool could do say a seasonal wear plan and amend accordingly. This in itself makes a lot of tools kinda useless at the very pinnacle of the game in my eyes.
However most tools could get a complete novice to Master. Imagine if these tools automatically inputting setups, ran p.laps, q's, did part upgrades and downgrades etc. We will end up with loads of automated accounts. Maybe we already have a load of them. :( I think we should discourage this type of tool but still allow people who have little time to capture data.
Just so people understand here. It won't matter to me if a tool can grab or cannot grab data from the site. I'm just give my opinion on why one should be allowed against the other method.
Edit 1: I'm really curious to know if anyone has a tool that automatically run's q's for them and do part upgrades and downgrades. It's doubtful a tool could automatically upgrade and downgrade parts though.
Edit 2:Interesting to see this yes/no poll stay btw :)
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What is spiders and what they do? You mean those insects who kill and eat other dangerous insects? :)
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Quote ( Daneks Britāls @ June 2nd 2016,14:19:22 ) What is spiders and what they do? You mean those insects who kill and eat other dangerous insects? :)
You stick to your pen and paper lad ;)
Ultimately. If you don't allow tools to gather data then the game will die. FACT
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data inputting Spiders are For lazy person .
I mainly use the toold for planning season wear and finances And Setup and info about fuel and tyre Consumption /Duration .
I even decide my strategy on paper AND Think everything practically Like My rival X me Y he went for Z strategy so he will pit On A lap I will pit at B lap This Track has Hard overtaking so I will lose some time After first pit stop I would be this much seconds .
I decide strategy through similar method .
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Quote ( Michael Keeney @ June 2nd 2016,14:12:17 ) Then why play the game if someone is literally just clicking a button. Surely we shouldn't encourage this game play?
Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ June 2nd 2016,13:54:43 ) What's the difference between a tool that gives you your set up, for example, and one that gives you your set up and inputs it for you.
The only difference in these two situations is the actual typing of some numbers. It is still up to the person to make whatever decisions they are doing, change any figures they want and actually submit the "drive lap" order or whatever they are doing at that time. As Phil says, I think the auto filling of fields is a moot point.
And auto filling of fields (at the request of the person using the tool) is not the same as a tool running the practice and qualifying for you and such like. I think that is more of the fully automated scenario that you are actually (and rightly, IMO) against and not something that automatically puts some numbers in to some fields when you ask the tool to do so.
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Quote ( Michael Keeney @ June 2nd 2016,11:51:32 ) My opinion on tools is a tool shouldn't be able to input figures in the game.
A player should all have to input their own figures and not be automatically entered from an external tool.
I am more than happy for a tool to take whatever data they want, store the data, capture it, parse it whatever etc.
However there shouldn't be a method where a manager can click a button and that tool will log in to the site go to the set pages and upgrade/downgrade parts, run testing, run p.laps etc. I believe all of this should be manual. Anything leaving the site should be allowed to be captured by a tool but anything needing input should be manually input by a player.
Why would that be, mate? If I already have calculators which spit out values which I then have to input manually, rather tediously...why shouldn't I automate that part of gameplay too? Copy-pasting a bunch of numbers back and forth a spreadsheet...not a lot of fun IMO :{)
Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ June 2nd 2016,17:07:07 ) And auto filling of fields (at the request of the person using the tool) is not the same as a tool running the practice and qualifying for you and such like. I think that is more of the fully automated scenario that you are actually (and rightly, IMO) against and not something that automatically puts some numbers in to some fields when you ask the tool to do so. Running laps and qualifications and changing of parts...all that isn't much fun either IF you already know what you will be doing and the already know the expected outcomes. So if someone wanted to automate that, I cant see an issue.
Quote ( Michael Keeney @ June 2nd 2016,14:12:17 ) Edit 1: I'm really curious to know if anyone has a tool that automatically run's q's for them and do part upgrades and downgrades. It's doubtful a tool could automatically upgrade and downgrade parts though. Great idea, and now its on my to-do list :{) There's been too many occasions recently where I could really have done with a 1-click race automation. Isn't a hard thing to do either.
I agree that it would end up making the game look like its full of autobots if everyone did that, though.
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I´m also against spiders. I just feel like pressing only one button would not feel like playing the game anymore. Of course, nobody is forced to use something like that, but many would since it´s way more easy and comfortable. The fun part of the game would kinda be lost...
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I'm still very new to the game, so my thoughts aren't worth so much. However, my opinion is that anything publicly available is fair game.
Some of you have expressed concerns about increased server load - the admins have already set a precedent of the procedure when they banned spiders from the staff markets. Instead of simply saying "this isn't allowed anymore" and washing their hands of the matter, they chose to render spiders redundant by making the data publicly available for anyone to export.
Quote ( Constantin Heller @ June 2nd 2016,19:15:45 ) I´m also against spiders. I just feel like pressing only one button would not feel like playing the game anymore. Of course, nobody is forced to use something like that, but many would since it´s way more easy and comfortable. The fun part of the game would kinda be lost...
Any half-intelligent person can figure out how to program a spider to compile the data. A person still has to analyze it. The data is completely useless on its own.
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I feel it's up for abuse that's all. If you're intelligent enough to design such a tool then fair play. I genuinely applaud you.
My beef is when it's handed to 13-15 others teams and some random rookie comes into the game and wouldn't have a clue what TCD, kTrack and all others things are?
I suspect it's a lot. A hell of a lot and it's them that should be discouraged. As for say someone like you Shoaib I totally appreciate things can be tedious. I'm doubtful you could ever get a tool to run your whole season at a profit unless you already have love 300m and you race competitively got 17 races and don't smoke out. However my opinion on knowingly smoking out is a different matter.
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Have I really been at that many teams
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Quote ( Michael Keeney @ June 2nd 2016,14:12:17 ) However most tools could get a complete novice to Master.
I've not come across any tools that are making actual decisions. If you have seen one, send me a link to where I can find one. :)
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Quote ( Brian Lockwood @ June 2nd 2016,19:20:36 ) Any half-intelligent person can figure out how to program a spider to compile the data. A person still has to analyze it. The data is completely useless on its own. I think what is being said, is not about those "anybody with half a brain can do" is the opposite.. Is what the top 10% can do with automation / spiders.
I appreciate you calling me a dumbass.. because I honestly can't program
Quote ( Michael Keeney @ June 2nd 2016,19:58:47 ) I feel it's up for abuse that's all. If you're intelligent enough to design such a tool then fair play. I genuinely applaud you.
Or if you have some extra cash, you can pay for help.. way better use for those supporter credits.. just put some friends together and party on!
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Don't worry about it Marcelo. He'll be the one looking like a dumbass when he fails to amount to anything in the game.
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Quote ( Marcelo Ascencio @ June 2nd 2016,22:30:12 ) Quote ( Brian Lockwood @ June 2nd 2016,19:20:36 )I think what is being said, is not about those "anybody with half a brain can do" is the opposite.. Is what the top 10% can do with automation / spiders.
I appreciate you calling me a dumbass.. because I honestly can't program
Anybody who has the motivation to do so can look up youtube videos and online tutorials for basic scripting. I didn't call anyone a dumbass, don't put words in my mouth. I guarantee that if you dedicated a significant amount of time and effort to the specific goal of coding a spider, you would be able to do so.
Quote ( Michael Winkley @ June 2nd 2016,22:33:16 ) Don't worry about it Marcelo. He'll be the one looking like a dumbass when he fails to amount to anything in the game.
just like my life :/
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You'll fit in well here then.
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Quote ( Michael Winkley @ June 2nd 2016,23:06:50 ) You'll fit in well here then.
There is no greater shame.
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Quote ( Brian Lockwood @ June 2nd 2016,23:10:46 )
There is no greater shame.
You've yet to meet Kirsty yet then.
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