| Author |
Topic: [GAME OVER] MAFIA - Rows and Columns |
1833 replies
|
|
|
Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ November 17th 2022,13:51:25 ) Quote ( Ivelin Dobrev @ November 16th 2022,20:12:41 )
I would like to hear everybody’s thoughts on the possibility of scum choosing not to kill.
I do not think we can entirely rule it out. I agree that the most likely NK target would be Ania so scum decided to avoid the WIFOM and dupe a protective PR into thinking they were successful, so as to try and influence them to go after town. But it would be very risky IMO
I would not be surprised if that's exactly what happened here. Cameron has done this in the past where he would openly say what he did as scum to play the WIFOM game.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ November 17th 2022,13:53:50 ) It's not about preference, there is no mention of it in the rules or on the wiki page. So Occam's razor suggests that N0 did indeed occur and Seb knew of its existence. Lol what? Occam's razor suggests N0 didn't exist because the setup doesn't mention an existence of a N0, period. Your whole argument is total bullshit Cameron.
It sounds like you are clinging onto something that happened on D1 to keep your scumread and vote on Seb. Not sure why.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ November 17th 2022,13:59:49 ) Firstly because there might not have been enough people or time to subsequently secure a Davi lynch. Secondly because it seems as though he believed Katerina had a higher flip value. Do we need more evidence that Cameron is not reading the thread?
|
|
|
|
I see why the flavor now Ania, sorry.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Ricardo Antunes @ November 17th 2022,03:07:09 ) Seriously considering requesting a Cameron policy lynch while it's not LyLo.
Let's do it.
|
|
|
|
My top two choices are Cameron and Davi. Cameron I already explained why. Davi, I'm ready to say I may have bought his BS about not caring about being lynched and all that.
I like Ric on D2, Ania I had some doubts but on a re-read it makes sense. Shelbee is a lost townie IMO.
Seb and Bert I'm not sure - null.
|
|
|
|
Am I too naive to think that this sudden urge in lynching Cameron is very suspicious? Or is it just me?
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Ivelin Dobrev @ November 17th 2022,16:22:09 ) Quote ( Ania Piekarska @ November 17th 2022,11:36:31 )
If they have RC then maybe but I don't think so. If they have two goons, definitely not. Why if they have RC maybe?
Because it makes the night not unproductive.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Davi Queiroz @ November 17th 2022,17:46:07 ) Am I too naive to think that this sudden urge in lynching Cameron is very suspicious? Or is it just me?
You mean two people agreeing on it is a sudden urge?
I'll have to think more about it, but I'm not against it myself either. (for the record: I'll be happy to lynch Cameron based on my thoughts, but I'll have to think of people's motivations to go there)
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Davi Queiroz @ November 17th 2022,17:46:07 ) Am I too naive to think that this sudden urge in lynching Cameron is very suspicious? Or is it just me?
Why it’s suspicious?
|
|
|
|
I mean, not sure why it feels that way since I'm the other option at the moment and surely there is (or was) a scum in my wagon.
Perhaps because if Cameron is town, a second wagon on him would be perfect for scum. Or maybe at least one scum is on this train to lynch Cameron because they think he has a PR?
I would be fine with a Cameron lynch, but not in the way it's happening. The timing seems odd for some reason.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Davi Queiroz @ November 17th 2022,17:46:07 ) Am I too naive to think that this sudden urge in lynching Cameron is very suspicious? Or is it just me?
Scum will want to lynch townies but they'll also be looking at lynching the townier towns, if that makes sense.
For example, in D1 lynching Katerina was better for scum than lynching you since you are the source of paranoia by a lot of people, and Katerina less.
Lynching town!Cameron would obviously be better for scum than lynching scum!Cameron, but scum would dive in the opportunity of achieving any other lynch if they could. This is why I specificly said that I was considering that lynch BEFORE LYLO. If scum can create enough paranoia to delay that lynch, it might make things worse.
At the same time, if Cameron is scum, then he's scum and that's the end of it. I think there could perfectly be scum in this wagon but right now it's too hard for me to say who looks the most suspicious out of those who want to do it (I think it's only Ivelin and Sebastian apart from myself?)
I of course do not want to do it now. Lets scumhunt normally and then decide.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ November 17th 2022,13:58:17 ) Who said antagonisation isn't a good scumhunting strategy? It's just pressure. Do you mind pressure?
Pressure is good if applied correctly, and with purpose.
To me it looks you're just arguing with everything for no reason and not even reading things properly before replying. It's like your goal isn't even to come to the truth, but rather to argue.
Much like my argument with Davi, this tells me your willingness to scumhunt is reduced, which is a scum tell. Besides, you're not helping even if you're town so we might need to consider cutting the rotten arm if this keeps up as we're wasting our time working around you, as you do not look to be informed enough up until now to make important decisions such as who to lynch in LyLo.
Basicly, get your act together.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Ania Piekarska @ November 17th 2022,17:55:29 ) Because it makes the night not unproductive.
I don't understand this. Them having a Rolecop still does not give them any reason to not kill.
In fact, having a rolecop could even be more incentive to go for it as they would know there's no Town Tracker. And I'd be shitting my pants if I were scum team with a RC worried there's a Cop which is such an OP ability, and I'd definitly be trying to guess who could possibly be a Cop and having a shot at them.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Ricardo Antunes @ November 17th 2022,20:01:27 ) Lynching town!Cameron would obviously be better for scum than lynching scum!Cameron, but scum would dive in the opportunity of achieving any other lynch if they could. This is why I specificly said that I was considering that lynch BEFORE LYLO. If scum can create enough paranoia to delay that lynch, it might make things worse.
Fixed, that mistake made the statement have a different meaning from what I wanted.
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Ricardo Antunes @ November 17th 2022,20:15:06 ) Quote ( Ania Piekarska @ November 17th 2022,17:55:29 )
Because it makes the night not unproductive.
I don't understand this. Them having a Rolecop still does not give them any reason to not kill.
In fact, having a rolecop could even be more incentive to go for it as they would know there's no Town Tracker. And I'd be shitting my pants if I were scum team with a RC worried there's a Cop which is such an OP ability, and I'd definitly be trying to guess who could possibly be a Cop and having a shot at them.
This is your towniest post Ric.
|
|
|
|
I mean it was just a mafia theory post so I don't think that's particularly good that this was my tonwiest post then :P
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Ricardo Antunes @ November 17th 2022,20:01:27 ) Scum will want to lynch townies but they'll also be looking at lynching the townier towns, if that makes sense.
For example, in D1 lynching Katerina was better for scum than lynching you since you are the source of paranoia by a lot of people, and Katerina less. Are you spewing Davi town here?
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Ricardo Antunes @ November 17th 2022,20:15:06 ) Quote ( Ania Piekarska @ November 17th 2022,17:55:29 )
Because it makes the night not unproductive.
I don't understand this. Them having a Rolecop still does not give them any reason to not kill.
In fact, having a rolecop could even be more incentive to go for it as they would know there's no Town Tracker. And I'd be shitting my pants if I were scum team with a RC worried there's a Cop which is such an OP ability, and I'd definitly be trying to guess who could possibly be a Cop and having a shot at them.
Fair. I didn't analyze the setup grid for my answer, I went by my thoughts in general between "RC" and "no RC".
My thinking was that night is when scum should have advantage. If you go for no kill, you remove the advantage. But if you have RC then you still have your advantage (this last sentence is not true when you go more in depth like you explained)
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Ania Piekarska @ November 17th 2022,21:08:50 ) Are you spewing Davi town here?
I was talking about town!Davi there, yes.
You have every right to go after me to assume this but also consider I'm in a conversation with Davi so I think it's pretty normal that I'm talking to his town self? I don't know if this makes sense :P
|
|
|
|
Yeah this second line makes sense.
I agree with the contents btw, I wanted to say that but forgot later
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Ricardo Antunes @ November 17th 2022,03:20:02 ) This looks terrible. Sebastian wants to vote Davi yet a simple Ivelin request quickly switches him to the other side (and don't tell me that answer changed your whole perspective of Katerina)
So many people were willing to lynch Davi yet he's still alive.
Okay let me explain it from my side. I wasn't opposed to Katerina lynch, you can read it in my readlist, at the time of the 'answer' (#1101) I said I can switch to Davi to secure it because i knew I'm leaving soon and didn't want to leave my vote as 'unused' as I knew at the time Bert lynch is not happening anymore and wanted to be sure we end up lynching someone to get some information to work on and possibly hit scum. Why I didn't vote Katerina straight away after Ivelin request was that I felt the same way about her wagon as in Bert's, meaning I saw at the time no possibility of 5th player to secure the lynch therefore making my vote useless. I could've joined Katerina wagon for some time since it formed, but I didn't for this particular reason. After the prod from Ivelin I wanted to clear anything from the 1101 before doing anything. In the meantime, Shelbee appeared to say she starts to doubt her town read on Katerina (#1113) which made me realize there is a possibility that my vote on Katerina would not be useless. This combined with lack of explanation from Katerina made me vote her before leaving.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Ania Piekarska @ November 17th 2022,15:50:00 ) How is this reaction similar to mine?
Quote ( Shelbee Nicole @ November 16th 2022,21:02:49 ) except for the no night death which feels weird? idk
Quote ( Ania Piekarska @ November 16th 2022,19:08:06 ) Cool XD
I get the feeling both were kinda contemptuous as a reaction to no night kill.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Ivelin Dobrev @ November 17th 2022,16:56:43 ) I would not be surprised if that's exactly what happened here. Cameron has done this in the past where he would openly say what he did as scum to play the WIFOM game.
Interesting. How likely would you say it is that if he's scum he's doing it this game?
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Davi Queiroz @ November 17th 2022,17:46:07 ) Am I too naive to think that this sudden urge in lynching Cameron is very suspicious? Or is it just me?
How is it sudden? It's not like everyone read Cameron as town before. And Ric, Ivelin and me said the will to lynch him on D1, and I don't see anyone else that make the urge to lynch him feel 'sudden'?
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Sebastian Jóźwiak @ November 18th 2022,09:13:58 ) Quote ( Ania Piekarska @ November 17th 2022,15:50:00 )
How is this reaction similar to mine?
Quote ( Shelbee Nicole @ November 16th 2022,21:02:49 )
except for the no night death which feels weird? idk
Quote ( Ania Piekarska @ November 16th 2022,19:08:06 )
Cool XD
I get the feeling both were kinda contemptuous as a reaction to no night kill.
I already discussed it with Ivelin - mine was a reaction to the flavor.
I can see how mine as a reaction to the kill looks contemptuous. Why do you think so of Shelbee's one though? (note that I had to look up what contemptuous means, so maybe I'm just misunderstanding)
|
|
|
|
What just occurred to me, is that Shelbee's idea of a mafia game comes from The Chip Contraband. In that game, there were more no kills than kills iirc.
Shelbee, why are you so surprised about no death and about the possibility of mafia choosing no kill?
|
|
|
|
So I've done some digging, and here's a list of all the games Ivelin played as town since my last game.
Stack The Character Deck - Town Innocent Child: TOWN LOSS (Killed N1)
Twin Trap - Vanilla Townie: TOWN WIN (Survived)
A Disturbance In The Force - Town Mason: TOWN WIN (Survived)
Bad Cop, Insane Cop - Vanilla Townie: TOWN LOSS (Killed N3)
Baby Too Much Scum - Vanilla Townie: TOWN LOSS (Killed N2)
Jester In Town - Vanilla Townie: TOWN LOSS (Killed N2)
Firefly Multirole - Town Roleblocker: TOWN LOSS (Killed N1)
My Name Is Earl - Town Cop: TOWN WIN (Killed N3)
True Love - Vanilla Townie and Lover: TOWN WIN (Suicided D2)
NK'd 6 times
Survived 2 times
Suicided Once
From this we can see that in recent games, Ivelin has been NK'd most often as town. I think that scum went after Ivelin by banking on the probability of scum owing to the tendency for Ivelin to be NK'd as town, and as such surviving NX would shift balance of opinion towards him being scum.
Suppose scum have Rolecop. Given how quickly Ania voted, is this would be likely if she is scum, but also because of the No Kill possibility. I believe it is probable she could have investigated Ivelin and was successful. Regardless of the result she would be more confident in her "reads", therefore it makes sense that she would go after Ivelin.
It's only a theory but I'm trying to look for possible reasons Ania could be scum.
|
|
Deutsch
Español
Română
Italiano
Português
Português
Français
Polski
Русский
Български
Македонски
Српски
Nederlands
Vlaams
Suomi
Lietuvių
Čeština
Magyar
Eesti keel
Slovenčina
Türkçe
Shqip
Ελληνικά
Hrvatski
Bahasa Melayu
Dansk
Pirate
