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Sujet: Ayrton Senna |
569 réponses
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Quote ( Jonathan Seifort @ April 30th 2011,03:49:01 )
Schumi was extremely intelligent. Senna not so much. you mean computer aid ??!! :D LOL
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Quote ( Abijeet Khanna @ May 1st 2011,21:43:54 )
Black livery this race anyone? Me.
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I wont be using the black livery as I will treat Ayrton with as much respect as every other lost driver, and if I used the black livery for him I would have to use it at nearly every race to commemorate everyone. But still RIP, a great driver was lost 17 years to the day and the world of motor racing hasnt been the same since :(
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh1WxQmst2o Your point being?
Please, don't say Schumacher doesn't have the "genius, charisma and character" when he has donated millions anonymously to charity and been as equal an ambassador to the sport as Senna. They are both geniuses and neither is better than the other by fact, especially as they're from different eras.
Quote ( Craig Mclean @ May 1st 2011,21:59:48 )
I wont be using the black livery as I will treat Ayrton with as much respect as every other lost driver, and if I used the black livery for him I would have to use it at nearly every race to commemorate everyone. But still RIP, a great driver was lost 17 years to the day and the world of motor racing hasnt been the same since :(
+1
Of course Senna had the success which made his death more dramatic to the world, but Ratzenberger didn't get the chance to reach his heights, that doesn't make his death less of an importance to not honour his memory. Nevertheless, a sad day to remember.
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Senna the best forever !!!
Loving memory Ayrton Senna !!!
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Hilarious how Senna-fanboys are defending him on the comments page. XD
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Quote ( Diego Borçoi @ May 1st 2011,22:17:32 )
How you can see, this is a good example why Schumacher will never beat Senna. Schumacher may have the numbers, but not the genius, charisma, and especially the character.
You know how dangerous it is to run on the track and help another driver? It might be brave but very stupid, and anno 2011 we have marshalls for that.
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Look at Ralf expression when Michael is bursting into tears. He is like saying "that soft idiot is making our family the laughing stock. you're a grown man, stop it !" :)
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I always had great respect, and I admired him a lot.
Just today I watched the movie... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1424432/
Everyone who didn't watch that film yet - correct that error :)
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Senna: simply The Best!!! Forever!!!
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If Senna was there, Schumacher wouldn't have been 7 time world champion !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Quote ( Ron Lefebvre @ May 24th 2011,06:05:25 )
If Senna was there, Schumacher wouldn't have been 7 time world champion !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How can you prove that?
1) Senna was in his mid-30's when he died. Schumi was in his mid-20's.
2) Schumacher was 30 points ahead of Senna after the 1994 San Marino GP - So if Senna had survived, I highly doubt he would beat Schumi after such a deficiency.
3) Schumacher beat Hill by 33 points in 1995. I can't see Senna doing miles better.
4) Senna's contract was finished at the end of 1995. I highly doubt Frank Williams would re-sign Senna after failing to win any titles. Frank refused to resign Mansell, Prost or Hill after they even won a title with Williams.
Of course, you can never know what would've happened. But that's my guess.
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Quote ( Jonathan Seifort @ May 24th 2011,18:39:13 )
1) Senna was in his mid-30's when he died. Schumi was in his mid-20's. Schumacher is still driving at 42, and Senna won 5 races in the weaker McLaren used in 1993.
Quote ( Jonathan Seifort @ May 24th 2011,18:39:13 )
2) Schumacher was 30 points ahead of Senna after the 1994 San Marino GP - So if Senna had survived, I highly doubt he would beat Schumi after such a deficiency. Stranger things have happened. Also, if Senna were to win all 13 of the remaining races, he would be champion.
Quote ( Jonathan Seifort @ May 24th 2011,18:39:13 )
3) Schumacher beat Hill by 33 points in 1995. I can't see Senna doing miles better. Hill threw a lot of points away in 1995.
Quote ( Jonathan Seifort @ May 24th 2011,18:39:13 )
4) Senna's contract was finished at the end of 1995. I highly doubt Frank Williams would re-sign Senna after failing to win any titles. Frank refused to resign Mansell, Prost or Hill after they even won a title with Williams.
But 2 titles? (and a choice between Senna, Coulthard or Villeneuve?)
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Ayrton and Michael were both outstanding drivers in their day, Ayrton just carried a more mystical and frankly more interesting approach to racing than Michael did, both were brutal and unforgiving and extremely talented. Senna though, is my favourite, because of my first point, I rate the two as equally the two best modern day F1 drivers ever.
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Agreed ;)
I add: there is an impressive fact that put together both of them: they won A LOT of races even in not the best car of the field BY FAR...
On the other side, there is the fact that both of them were not fair play champions, though perfectly inside a magnificent "innate sense of motorsport"...
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Quote ( Gianluca Marchese @ May 24th 2011,19:38:43 )
they won A LOT of races even in not the best car of the field
AHEM !
Schumacher won a lot of races in not the best car ?!?
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More than Senna to say the truth...
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Quote ( Andrew Lawrence @ May 24th 2011,18:50:37 )
Schumacher is still driving at 42, and Senna won 5 races in the weaker McLaren used in 1993.
Schumi hasn't been in his prime since the early 2000's. Senna was near the end of his career, for how much longer did you want him to go?
Quote ( Andrew Lawrence @ May 24th 2011,18:50:37 )
Stranger things have happened. Also, if Senna were to win all 13 of the remaining races, he would be champion.
Senna would never have won all 13 races. When was the last time someone made-up a 30-point deficiency? Also, Hill was only able to challenge Schumi due his multiple DSQ's which he did not deserve IMO.
Quote ( Andrew Lawrence @ May 24th 2011,18:50:37 )
Hill threw a lot of points away in 1995.
Senna wasn't exactly Mr.Constant himself, huh? Prost outscored Senna when they were teammates based upon consistency alone.
Quote ( Andrew Lawrence @ May 24th 2011,18:50:37 )
But 2 titles? (and a choice between Senna, Coulthard or Villeneuve?)
Frank choose Hill over Mansell, he certainly wouldn't have given Senna another chance. Ask Prost, Mansell, or Hill.
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#322 Posté (le) 24 Mai 2011, 20:39:59 (dernière édition (le) 24 Mai 2011, 20:40:30 par Guy Smets)
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Schumacher has never had the guts to accept a good teammate beside of him . He always ask for second (minor) driver.
How many GP wins schumacher received for free from his teammates?
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Quote ( Guy Smets @ May 24th 2011,20:39:59 )
How many GP wins schumacher received for free from his teammates?
Only 1 - Austria 2002
He later gave that victory back to Rubens at Indianapolis.
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ok ok, I believe in Santa too. Come on...
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I believe all comments are great and pertinent!! But it's impossible to preview what might have happened if Senna hadn't died in that fricking accident. They were all great, fantastic and geniuses at their own time!!
I think it's just great to see so many people, with different backgrounds and nationalities talking about the fantastic world of F1. Thanks to these guys we're here gathered in a virtual game having fun, and opportunity to talk about this fantastic sport.
I'd like to thank all of those who put video links, it was just fantastic watching all of them!!
Here are some great drivers too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl2tIFxSEGA (Rene Arnoux Vs Gille Villeneuve)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQAr73wfsJU (Nelson Piquet vs Senna)
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Quote ( Guy Smets @ May 24th 2011,20:39:59 )
Schumacher has never had the guts to accept a good teammate beside of him . He always ask for second (minor) driver.
More bullshit, effortless assumptions rather than a valid argument provided as always. On the topic of Senna, he prevented Derek Warwick from joining Lotus in 1986, so don't make false statements which have no value (assuming you are a Senna fan posting bullshit about Schumacher in a thread dedicated to Ayrton). I don't recall Schumacher physically PREVENTING someone from becoming his team-mate.
To then say Schumacher had no guts is bullshit, considering you're too ignorant to do your own research. Infact, on the subject of Senna, apart his intense rivalry with Alain, who else was a viable, quick team-mate of Ayrton's? Seenas he was blatantly in such a highly competitive era.
de Angelis? (unfortunately died in his prime) Nakajima? Berger? Andretti? Hakkinen certainly gave Ayrton a run in his early McLaren days before Ayrton got taken from us. I can't help thinking that despite how thought-provoking and touching the Senna movie is, it is extremely brainwashing and is on the verge of deluding fans of F1.
And what about risking his own and Prost's lives in Suzuka 1990? Sure, that was part of his character to never give up and "scare" his rivals, but that doesn't make his bravery to help Comas justified. Obviously everyone is entitled to their support, it wouldn't be much of a debate otherwise, but as great as Senna was and how much respect I had for him, he should not be forgotten for some of the danger he caused on track. How does helping Comas at Spa in 1993 make all of the history irrelevant in this context? Come on, there are so many legends in the past who didn't need to resort to this bullshit that Senna and Schumacher lowered themselves too at times, yet they sink into obscurity - though obviously, Senna and Schumacher had their own unique characters and brought a lot to the sport.
I have no problem with Senna fans, but the "widows" are just tedious to listen to with their endless droning fanatical bullshit. It's really sad how Prost has obtained this "villainous" persona, where are the movies on virtually unknown legends Clark, Hill, Stewart, Lauda etc? Each with some amazing stories in their lives.
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Senna is master ? yes , no
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Quote ( Michał Wiśniewski @ May 26th 2011,09:49:42 )
Senna is master ? yes , no in a word no! he was probably the best of his era, but the best ever???stats would go against him.
I am/was a huge Senna fan, but what you have to take into account is that when someone dies they seem to become almost mythical, people only remember what they want to and even then what they do remember has probably become romanticized in some way. The documentary from what I've seen is very pro Senna so you dont get the whole story.
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I believe Senna is/was very different from others champions of F1.
He was a very strange man in every side of his character. From driving skills to his very strong faith in God.
Stats are beside M. Schumacher, but heroes are different... If I think to heroes in F1 I remember Senna, Villeneuve, Clark, Mansell, De Angelis too or Rosberg and many others of '60 '70 ages. In a word Yes Senna is master!
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