Just because you don't see what people are doing doesn't mean that they aren't doing anything. Also, there are many more who give their time and are involved in things behind the scenes than are listed on that page - many doing things much more beneficial in the long term than simply moderating a forum, IMO.
Good ol' days when there were 30 manager races in Rookie.
I think there should be an option for different website design. I know it's supposed to look professional but sometimes the new players are confused when there is so many stuff to do on this game but it's all like packed together with the same font etc.
Quote ( Keri Lovell @ September 9th 2013,23:41:11 )
Just another example of why the thumbs down is such a bad idea.
Negativity. on almost every single post. Vlad may not think this has much of an effect on anyone and of course, its just a thumb, you should ignore it (on every post?) but psychologically its a business disaster.
Some people will be thoroughly put off by it hanging on the side of every post when there is decent stuff to read in that post from decent people.
There is a very good reason facebook doesnt have a thumbs down and never will, because negativity breeds at an alarming rate.
Quote ( Vladimir Alexandrov @ March 12th 2016,09:54:48 )
I have some hope that somehow we can bring back the other admins to contribute again with the development of the game. Do you know the reason why they don't want to be involved? The reason does not depend on finances or anything like that, but it is mainly due the spirit of the current community.
The situation is 'chicken / egg' imho. The material content of the game has been discussed and let's be honest is over & done with. There's only so many years people can discuss the same things.
And then what I mean by chicken / egg is that the admins aren't motivated because of the community, but then when the community see that the admin aren't motivated that doesn't help either.
Also I don't mind saying either that some people do just want to say that the community is bad. You see it in all sorts of clubs, organisations, especially businesses where it's just some people's MO (or maybe coping strategy) to just perpetually say how bad everything is all the time and how it's [insert reason that can't possibly be anything to do with them here] fault. People can find a lot of solidarity in misery sometimes.
And then what I mean by chicken / egg is that the admins aren't motivated because of the community, but then when the community see that the admin aren't motivated that doesn't help either.
considering it is the admins game, I think it should be their responsibility to motivate the community, not the other way around!
Yes the community could possibly be a bit more supportive of all the work the admins (Vlad) does, but still it should be the admins who try and bring changes for us to support. The quickly forgotten boost laps which were introduced very recently were a good example.
Quote ( Alex Nikodem-Wing @ April 17th 2016,11:22:04 )
considering it is the admins game, I think it should be their responsibility to motivate the community, not the other way around!
Yes the community could possibly be a bit more supportive of all the work the admins (Vlad) does, but still it should be the admins who try and bring changes for us to support. The quickly forgotten boost laps which were introduced very recently were a good example.
I do agree with you but motivation is a subject in itself. Saying that the admins should motivate the community is just words :) how do they actually do that?
Just communicate with us a bit more Phil - at the moment people feel that no matter what they say on here, Vlad doesn't listen. Whether that is true or not, only Vlad can tell us - but not talking at all gives that impression.
eg The whole DA thing - it took 3-400 posts before Vlad came on and spoke about the punishment - now if he had done that earlier, while it may not have stopped the discussion, it would probably have reduced the annoyance that people felt about it.
Ditto re suggestions - just a quick post here and there to say it is being considered / worked on / not appropriate (and reasons).
Perhaps some kind of mini blog - maybe just one short post a week to say what he is looking at doing etc. Keep a dedicated thread for it (and keep it locked / stickied so it doesn't get derailed....) - surely Vlad can spare a few minutes a week to just keep us up to date - even if it is only to say that he has been bug fixing and real life has intruded and therefore there is no progress on any potential new features?
I would think that this would 'motivate' the community that the game is potentially improving further going forward......
Vlad is not on a parole, he doesn't have to inform us of every step he make. This is insane.
I play this game for me and only me, it´s fun. I don´t need Vlad or anyone else to motivate me. If there are new improvements in the game - good, if not - ok, the game is still great.
Vlad is not on a parole, he doesn't have to inform us of every step he make. This is insane.
I play this game for me and only me, it´s fun. I don´t need Vlad or anyone else to motivate me. If there are new improvements in the game - good, if not - ok, the game is still great.
Why are you people bother with irrelevant things?
It's hardly an irrelevant thing if some of the admin do not want to contribute because the community is so negative. (Your post wasn't exactly a positive, inspiring one, haha)
What would I do?
* Get rid of the down thumbs, so you are only left with positive up thumbs, it works for facebook and they don;t seem to be doing too badly financially. * Create more competitions with small prizes, people used to really get involved in the ones that were user created. * Hire a good, respected community manager as a go between and feedback regularly to the community * Communicate, communicate, communicate (You may not think this is important, but try running a business, any business, without communicating to your customers) * Run regular offers to boost income (A new user trial package offer would be one I'd look at straight away and also some kind of loyalty bonus scheme)
* Create more competitions with small prizes, people used to really get involved in the ones that were user created.
There are couple of ideas I have heard, but nothing certain. But if anyone have any ideas, (s)he can let Vlad know about it and may get some starting finances.
There are couple of ideas I have heard, but nothing certain. But if anyone have any ideas, (s)he can let Vlad know about it and may get some starting finances.
Agreed, imagine having a massive GPRO competition each season, with a 0.50 euro entry fee. The income would be huge, you have set prizes, the game keeps the rest, no money changes hands because you have already paid for the credits you use to enter it with and you could be looking at upwards of 1000 euros just for that. Every season.
Yeah, I would guess it's not that hard to post them. Simple thing to do (because when I asked are they still given, the answer was yes) and shows the community (and mostly to new people) that admins care and are kind.
The above conversation is just another example of the community screaming for involvement from the admins. Some speak of how the community has devolved, you yourself blame the unwillingness of some of the old admins to come back is because of the state of the community. While the members of the community may have changed, something else has changed as well and that is the amount of input by the admins into the community. If you look back at the time periods where some of the old timers say the community was better, they are speaking about a time period where you and others just happened to be around more.
While you may prefer to say that the community have alienated the admins, I think the case may be more that the admins have alienated the community.
Quote ( Daniel Douglas @ April 17th 2016,20:47:22 )
If you look back at the time periods where some of the old timers say the community was better, they are speaking about a time period where you and others just happened to be around more.
Thing is, as I understand it from Stefan's post a little while ago (see post #228 in Quixotic Thread), the community was smaller back then and there was a reason and sense of purpose (development of the game) which made it what it was then. As he mentioned there himself, the community and admins were on the same side (with the common goal to improve the game with the steep development curve they must have had back then). He also mentioned he no longer has the same time that he used to be able to commit (work, family etc).
The main difference we have today with the community is that people have different reasons/motives for posting other than just the game itself. Also, I think its true to say people have different attitudes to forums today than 8 or 9 years ago. I honestly couldn't define what a troll was a decade ago if you'd asked me then about it. So, maybe the community wasn't like that then? Only the longer serving guys on here would know if there was the same level of bitching, moaning and trolling 8 or 9 years ago as there can be on an average day here today as there used to be. In defence of that, it could also be that the negative stuff is just more noticeable now because all the stuff about the game has faded into the background now there's less to unearth and talk about with the game, so all the pointless stuff is more prominent.
I can certainly understand and see why it could even be that Stefan ~and other hiatus/former admins ~ might not even have the motivation for assisting with any further game developments even if a better work/family balance gave them some free time to do so. If the same feeling is not there, and you don't think it's going to be received in the same way as it once was, why put yourself thru it.
Quote ( Stuart Foster @ April 17th 2016,22:46:40 )
Quote ( Daniel Douglas @ April 17th 2016,20:47:22 )
If you look back at the time periods where some of the old timers say the community was better, they are speaking about a time period where you and others just happened to be around more.
Thing is, as I understand it from Stefan's post a little while ago (see post #228 in Quixotic Thread), the community was smaller back then and there was a reason and sense of purpose (development of the game) which made it what it was then. As he mentioned there himself, the community and admins were on the same side (with the common goal to improve the game with the steep development curve they must have had back then). He also mentioned he no longer has the same time that he used to be able to commit (work, family etc).
The main difference we have today with the community is that people have different reasons/motives for posting other than just the game itself. Also, I think its true to say people have different attitudes to forums today than 8 or 9 years ago. I honestly couldn't define what a troll was a decade ago if you'd asked me then about it. So, maybe the community wasn't like that then? Only the longer serving guys on here would know if there was the same level of bitching, moaning and trolling 8 or 9 years ago as there can be on an average day here today as there used to be. In defence of that, it could also be that the negative stuff is just more noticeable now because all the stuff about the game has faded into the background now there's less to unearth and talk about with the game, so all the pointless stuff is more prominent.
I can certainly understand and see why it could even be that Stefan ~and other hiatus/former admins ~ might not even have the motivation for assisting with any further game developments even if a better work/family balance gave them some free time to do so. If the same feeling is not there, and you don't think it's going to be received in the same way as it once was, why put yourself thru it.
I can tell you from experience that online forums in general (maybe this one was an exception, idk) were just as bad 10 even 15 years ago as they are now.
I think that the reasons given for lack of interest by admins are more of excuses than anything. Again in general terms, programmers quickly lose interest in maintaining a project once it reaches a stage that they recognize it as being a completed project. It is rare to see a programmer who can motivate themselves to continual improvement of a system.
I have seen it before, ive seen projects born and die from lack of continual interest. I have also seen projects born, grow.... be sold...and become far too business like (seaking of profits by corporation)......sometimes though it is rare.. sometimes one of the founders renews their interest and takes the project back on to "fix" it or "bring it back to its former glory"
All in all though, as the developers lose interest and begin interacting less and less.... the community gets worse and worse, so does the experience.
Quote ( Daniel Douglas @ April 17th 2016,23:15:50 )
I think that the reasons given for lack of interest by admins are more of excuses than anything. Again in general terms, programmers quickly lose interest in maintaining a project once it reaches a stage that they recognize it as being a completed project.
Developer motivation inevitably drops, but any project also becomes more difficult to maintain and improve with time. The more you change things the less early design decisions make sense, the more bits are bolted together in illogical ways, the more bits you'd like to change can't be because they'd be too disruptive to user experience, and the less the developers remember about how the whole thing was supposed to work in the first place (if those developers are even still around). All of which makes tiny improvements very time consuming and bug prone in a way they just aren't early on
Quote ( Daniel Douglas @ April 17th 2016,23:15:50 )
I can tell you from experience that online forums in general (maybe this one was an exception, idk) were just as bad 10 even 15 years ago as they are now.
I think GPRO is still very tame compared to most online gaming forums now and 15 years ago :) But all gaming communities go through a life-cycle. In the beginning there's always huge optimism for the game. All it's problems will be fixed in the near future and what you have to play is new and exciting. The developers are gods. Everyone can remember when the forum mods were just enthusiastic players that wanted to help out because it was only last month they were appointed. The whole thing is like some brain-washed pseudo-religious community
Later on the discontent inevitably build up and once the spell is broken there's a realistic and diverse set of opinions, some of them extremely negative. It's human nature to speak your mind if you have the freedom to do so and who doesn't love to complain about stuff?
But it's easy to tell a mature good game from a mature bad game. In the bad games the forums are dead. There's a post from last November where some new player enthusiastically reported a bug and it got no replies. You check his profile and see he hasn't been back since. In the good games the forums are awash with negativity. There's a post from last November about some long-running difficult to solve issue and it's now closing in on 1800 replies with no sign of slowing down. Because people still really care about the core game, which is by far the most important thing. All the other little issues are really just a bottomless pit of moan fodder
I play another online game, very different to this one in it's nature, where the Admins do a live devstream every fortnight to talk about improvements bug fixes new content etc. Yes, wider audience, bigger budget etc, but at least it shows engagement. New content all of the time, especially seeing as the game is a grindfest. GPRO is a grind for sure, but next to nothing by way of new content.
From my POV I have started playing again GPRO in the last 4 months and am enjoying the game more than what I did about 8 years ago. This purely could be down to the fact that I've taken more time to trial and error drivers, development costs, driver risks etc.
Even though outdated - qualifying works perfectly for this game.
The only even I would enquire about changing is the 2 minute wait between laps. I'm quite happy to watch TV and have the GPRO race running on my phone, I don't know if that with the amount of data in the game it is possible to have a 1 minute interval between each lap???
Quote ( Kirsty Ridley @ April 28th 2015,19:42:50 )
I think, to be honest, its fair enough. If you are saying what tyres you are on, then saying how much wear per lap, and how much fuel...its pretty detailed info isn't it. Chat is one of the most ifno filled places, mods are mostly ok with stuff being said thats a little over the line too.
Quote ( Lee Middleburgh @ April 20th 2016,17:18:09 )
The only even I would enquire about changing is the 2 minute wait between laps. I'm quite happy to watch TV and have the GPRO race running on my phone, I don't know if that with the amount of data in the game it is possible to have a 1 minute interval between each lap???
I always thought the most logical would be to use the track record lap time as the interval on the live race. That way it would be actually closer to watching a live race, where your lap times would be at least close to the lap timer.
That'd confuse the beejesus out of a few people if the lap record got broken during the race. Can imagine someone tuning in at 21:36:49 only to find that the race finished 5 seconds earlier than they thought. I need some of those drugs.
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