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Forum sondages
Who is at fault?
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Sujet: Lewis & Max incident at Silverstone |
316 réponses
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#301 Posté (le) 12 Septembre 2021, 21:45:50
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Quote ( Tim Wagner @ September 12th 2021,21:29:46 ) Hamilton was trying to get out of the gravel trap and visibly moving and getting into reverse. Fairly sure it was clear that there was no harm.
Not even his own team asked him if he was alright.
Thats true, probably Max thought after seeing Lewis was trying to move this car that he was ok. Thats fair enough... But how many times weve seen Maxs attitude doing things like this?? many many times. And how many times weve seen Max example of gentlemany in sports? ZERO.
After a very serious crash we couldve seen finally a different reaction from Max.
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#302 Posté (le) 12 Septembre 2021, 21:57:06
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I m not a fan of Lewis or Verstapen, but after me was Verstapen fault. Hamilton was ahead on that corner, so Verstapen did not had space to overtake. Yes, Hamilton tryed to block on the corner and so Verstapen did not had space, but again, Hamilton was first on the corner and before entering in the corner, verstapen car was not in line with Hamilton s car, from here i can say that Verstapen had a mistake here. I believed that was Verstapen fault even before the steward decision. Verstapen has too much aggresivity, sometimes is not good for him like now, other times, help him to won races.
The incident was investigated after the race and the stewards deemed Verstappen was “predominantly to blame for the collision” and awarded him a three-place grid penalty for the next round in Russia. The decision was welcomed by Hamilton. “I am proud of the stewards,” he said.“
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#303 Posté (le) 12 Septembre 2021, 22:09:28
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About Max reaction, what about Lewis reaction at Silverstone?
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#304 Posté (le) 12 Septembre 2021, 22:43:09
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Quote ( Andrei Harnicu @ September 12th 2021,22:09:28 ) About Max reaction, what about Lewis reaction at Silverstone?
He asked if Max was OK on the team radio after making sure he didn't have to enter the pits to repair damage.
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#305 Posté (le) 12 Septembre 2021, 23:47:43
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I do think there is a double standard with the stewarding at this race...which doesn't mean to say I reckon that Max or Lewis was more at fault than the other FYI.
But Ocon was penalised for racing against Vettel when "having earlier defended his position off line, the driver of car 31 [Ocon] failed to leave a car width between his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner (as is required in the regulation) and caused the collision with car five [Vettel]."
(That's a direct quote from the stewards btw - I haven't added to it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM7zpJmDMnw
You can see the clip there - Ocon is clearly ahead of Vettel and is penalised for not giving Vettel racing room, who is behind him. Yet as you can see here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAHBa1_CfDM
...Verstappen is even further alongside Hamilton and yet Lewis doesn't give him a car's width.
Ocon is penalised and Hamilton is not. Different corners yes (and arguably Ocon's move was more dangerous given the speeds involved...), but otherwise I don't see the difference in the rule that is being applied.
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#306 Posté (le) 12 Septembre 2021, 23:55:25
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The "you have to leave one car's width" rule is exclusively valid on straights. Corners are a whole different world because every situation is different and it's impossible to write a set a of rules that defines everything. So it's left up to the stewards to judge the case. The Ocon incident was a very clear penalty imo.
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#307 Posté (le) 13 Septembre 2021, 00:13:34
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Quote ( Jonathan Beagles @ September 12th 2021,23:47:43 ) on the approach to the corner (as is required in the regulation)
The stewards ruling doesn't mention straights - and you could even argue (although it would admittedly be refuted by many parties) that there is a very very small straight between the 1st and 2nd corners.
As I say, I'm not saying Max or Lewis was wrong - just that from the stewards' wording there, it appears the rule has been applied twice differently.
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#308 Posté (le) 13 Septembre 2021, 00:34:04 (dernière édition (le) 13 Septembre 2021, 00:40:06 par Jay De Snoo)
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Quote ( Joaquín Quintana @ September 12th 2021,21:45:50 )
Thats true, probably Max thought after seeing Lewis was trying to move this car that he was ok. Thats fair enough... But how many times weve seen Maxs attitude doing things like this?? many many times. And how many times weve seen Max example of gentlemany in sports? ZERO.
After a very serious crash we couldve seen finally a different reaction from Max.
I probably have the wrong flag to ask this question (clarified this more than once but I'm more long term F1 fan than any Max one (although it is nice to see a fellow country men win in ANY sports... ))
Have you at any given time been anywhere near topsport performance? Even juvenile?
Beacuse I have, both in individual as in team sports and both are a tough environment to be in. You're trained to be the best, you're trained to always continue -no-matter- what.
I didn't make both, because of the same injury; knee damage.And although that was harsh and unfortunate some 25 year ago, at least I can understand, those kind of attitudes / decisions from top sporters...
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#309 Posté (le) 13 Septembre 2021, 20:51:40 (dernière édition (le) 13 Septembre 2021, 20:53:59 par Roy Mitchell)
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He looked Hamilton's way as he went past the cars. I saw that on the tube and wondered if he said anything to Lewis?
the reality is exactly what Jay just posted. These drivers have spent years and much of their youth in a racing environment. They have prepared to be 'there' when the opportunity comes to be the WDC. "You go for it."
It's not very likely that any of them would really care about the rival driver's problems or miscues. I also don't think that these racing incidents are good for either the drivers or the sport.
and finally I wish the FIA would get some semblance of their reality and stop affecting races with their unpredictable rulings and different application criteria, after the cars have gone home! All this technology and they can't render a decision in relevant time during the race.
I missed any radio transmission to Red Bull or Perez requiring that the place be given back. Did you hear that or anything like that from the announcers?
I have in previous races.
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#310 Posté (le) 13 Septembre 2021, 21:21:38
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Quote ( Roy Mitchell @ September 13th 2021,20:51:40 ) I missed any radio transmission to Red Bull or Perez requiring that the place be given back. Did you hear that or anything like that from the announcers?
If I remember correctly, Redbull told Perez to keep the position until the stewards made a decision, which IMO was the wrong thing to do. If Perez gives the spot back right away he gets by him the next lap and really doesn't lose much ground. I agree the stewards should of made a much quicker decision, but Redbull blew that call by depending on the stewards to me a quick decision.
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#311 Posté (le) 13 Septembre 2021, 21:41:10
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There was a lot of discussion regarding if Max should've been penalized for this incident on the Brazilian feed of the GP, and they also remembered about the first lap of the race, when Hamilton was forced to drive through the outside part of the second chicane. Basically, the roles were reversed and Lewis had no room, but instead of staying on the track (like Verstappen did) he decided to "avoid contact" (the commentator's words) and went off-track.
So, when the collision happened, Max could've done the same thing and avoided the accident, but instead decided to commit and risked making contact. Of course, we should remember that the contact only happened because Max hit the sausage kerb, causing him to lose control of the car; but the idea is: both drivers were put in the same position, and one decided to take the risk where the other did not.
Not saying Max is at fault, by the way. Just clarifying that both drivers were racing hard, and neither wanted to give the other an advantage.
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#312 Posté (le) 13 Septembre 2021, 21:41:53
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Was it weak, guys? Where's the option for just Lewis? That was not of a gentleman, Sir.
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#313 Posté (le) 13 Septembre 2021, 22:35:01
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it is hard to call ( F1 ) sport , anymore .
as sport man , you should have , some good manner .
because you are god for some people , who want to follow your steps .
easy to say ( VERSTAPIN ) was always aggressive since day one .
and he believe that is okay and good .
now Lewis ( MR .. BLM .. ) is not better man than max , and here when the test comes .
he wanted to teach max a lesson .
i am not fan of any of those .
i would like to see some sport .
if I want to see a fight , I will be watching ( MMA ) or ( BOXING )
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#314 Posté (le) 14 Septembre 2021, 04:24:46
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The way I see it, the drivers are constantly playing a game of chicken... who is braver, who is willing to risk the incident more. If you both choose to be brave, then the one that HITS the other should be at fault.
In Silverstone, neither was willing to give way and Hamilton hit Verstappen. Hamilton got the penalty. At Monza, lap 1 Hamilton backed out. He was the chicken (though that was actually the smart thing to do). At Monza when the incident happened, neither was willing to give in. Max hit Lewis. Max got the penalty. To me, that all makes sense
Generally speaking... Verstappen wins every game of chicken. He is unwilling to lose. He is braver. But that can also be seen as being dumber. Max needs to learn that he can back off.
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#315 Posté (le) 14 Septembre 2021, 10:25:21
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Quote ( Davi Queiroz @ September 13th 2021,21:41:10 ) There was a lot of discussion regarding if Max should've been penalized for this incident on the Brazilian feed of the GP, and they also remembered about the first lap of the race, when Hamilton was forced to drive through the outside part of the second chicane. Basically, the roles were reversed and Lewis had no room, but instead of staying on the track (like Verstappen did) he decided to "avoid contact" (the commentator's words) and went off-track.
They actually did make contact. Hamilton squeezed Max and they bumped wheels going into 4 and that pushed Hamilton off the track by the time Max was going through 5. It seemed to me like Hamilton was attempting another move like the one that resulted in Vettel spinning out a few years ago..
Going back to the first lap though, we saw Norris try to overtake Hamilton into the first chicane. Although he was further alongside, Hamilton gave him room and drove out of the chicane taking 3rd place. Meaning if he had just given Max more room and done the same thing, he probably would've driven out of the corner ahead of Max anyway (like Max said after the race), but he decided not to..
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#316 Posté (le) 14 Septembre 2021, 16:46:44 (dernière édition (le) 14 Septembre 2021, 16:47:49 par Roy Mitchell)
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Odd how Hamilton liked the racing before and now only complains about how difficult it all is.
This is the first real challenge since Niko went wheel to wheel with him. He lost that title and a friend in that season. He also crashed them both for a bad passing attempt. Sound familiar??
edit: Waiting for him and Bottas to have a crash. lol
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#317 Posté (le) 21 Septembre 2021, 16:32:34
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very clear that it was mad max's fault! Is there a topic for their latest crash? once again mad max at fault
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