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Topic: Pre-Contract TDs for promoting managers |
20 replies
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#1 posted May 1st 2010, 02:42:25
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I just had this idea and though it was interesting.. the thing is:
In the last 3 races of the season, managers from a lower category would be able to sign a 'pre-contract' with a TD from the promoting category (that means, manager for Amateur would be able to sign with Pros TD, Pros with Masters, Masters with Elite).
I thought it would benefit all managers, as it would end the crowded market in the beginning of each season..
It would work like this.. if a manager wants to have a TD with overall higher than his currently category in the first season on the new category, he would be able to make an offer for the desired TD but would only start the contract in the new season.. for that he would pay the Signing on Fee in advanced and wouldn't get refunded if he don't promote.. In that case, he would have no TD and lose the signing on fee money he'd already paid..
Other thing that could be done so that people wouldn't try to mess with another category market, is that this 'pre-contracts' would only be accepted by TDs if they are for the hole season (17 races), that way if a manager don't like his TD when the season starts he would have to pay a good amount of money as resign tax..
Not sure if I made myself clear, my english is a bit rusted this days.. :P
so.. what you guys think?
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Quote ( Guilherme Bello @ May 1st 2010,02:42:25 )
Not sure if I made myself clear, my english is a bit rusted this days.. :P
Maybe I'm too tired to understand right now, but I've read it through 3 times but I still don't understand the idea :p no offence!
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#3 posted May 1st 2010, 02:56:42
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Sorry, but I will have to say no to the idea. It is part of the learning phase for those that will be entering into Pro. Personally, I was glad that I had the experience for the first time at the beginning of this season and have already made the adjustment for next season as I will be in Pro next season. Just my 2 cents on the matter. :o)
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Quote ( Guilherme Bello @ May 1st 2010,02:42:25 )
Other thing that could be done so that people wouldn't try to mess with another category market, is that this 'pre-contracts' would only be accepted by TDs if they are for the hole season (17 races), that way if a manager don't like his TD when the season starts he would have to pay a good amount of money as resign tax..
and what about those managers who are in a promotion spot, but will go negative balance at season end ?
They would have a chance to mess with with another category market
What about close calls, promotion fights until the very last race of the season ?
Who ever is 5th, but makes it to 4th in season finale and promotes would be disadvantaged
What about additional promotions, they would also be disadvangtaged ?
Quote ( Guilherme Bello @ May 1st 2010,02:42:25 )
Not sure if I made myself clear, my english is a bit rusted this days.. :P
it was pretty clear :)
Quote ( Guilherme Bello @ May 1st 2010,02:42:25 )
so.. what you guys think?
There are still open issues in your proposal
and tbh I don't see the point in this one. but that's just my opinion
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#5 posted May 1st 2010, 02:59:09
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I did get it, but i'm not sure if i would like it or not, the thing is that then managers in Pro may not sign a TD cause someone in Ama signed him, but then if he doesn't promote the TD is still on the market, that i guess i would not like it.
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#6 posted May 1st 2010, 03:22:28
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Honestly - All the Europeans have better English then most of the Englishmen, :).
I think it's too much trouble for such a little thing, you already have pre-season driver rush, now you want a before-the-season-ends TD rush? :P
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#7 posted May 1st 2010, 03:26:09
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Quote ( Mikko Heikkinen @ May 1st 2010,02:57:51 )
They would have a chance to mess with with another category market
What about close calls, promotion fights until the very last race of the season ?
Who ever is 5th, but makes it to 4th in season finale and promotes would be disadvantaged
What about additional promotions, they would also be disadvangtaged ? you see, that's the thing.. there is no point on someone that isn't promoting to do the 'pre-contract' deal, since the guy will only loose money (maybe there could be even a fine for the one who signs the 'pre-contract' but doesn't promote).. so it would ONLY benefit promoting managers to be in even conditions to managers who are already in that category and can sign a TD before current season ends (to use on the upcoming season).
Quote ( Mitchell Smith @ May 1st 2010,03:22:28 )
now you want a before-the-season-ends TD rush? :P now that's the point.. there won't be a big rush for that, since it won't be advantageous for non-promoting managers to sign this deals (it will only make them lose money)... so we're talking about 4-5 managers per group.. and, if you count managers promoting on the next category (that will have that option too) it won't cause a rush.. it will only allow managers to enter the market they will already be competing 3 races ahead schedule, so they'll have equal conditions to 'maintaining managers'.. got it?
Quote ( Greg Swaney @ May 1st 2010,02:56:42 )
It is part of the learning phase for those that will be entering into Pro. I agree with that... maybe Amateurs won't have that option then, only Pro and above..
BTW, thanks for the polite debate and not saying only "no!", "it sucks", or that kind of thing.. ;)
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#9 posted May 1st 2010, 06:43:28
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Does the manager signing a pre-contract lose his current TD (if he has one) when he does that?
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Quote ( Chinmay Dhopate @ May 1st 2010,06:43:28 )
Does the manager signing a pre-contract lose his current TD (if he has one) when he does that? he looses the current TD when the current contract ends or when the season changes (whatever comes first).. although in the second case (contract valid when season changes) he will pay the contract resign fee..
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So you'd have TD's sitting around doing nothing for 3 races?
Who pays his wage?
Or are you going to have TD stealing going on & no TD's will actually make the market?
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Quote ( Guilherme Bello @ May 1st 2010,05:03:30 )
you see, that's the thing.. there is no point on someone that isn't promoting to do the 'pre-contract' deal, since the guy will only loose money (maybe there could be even a fine for the one who signs the 'pre-contract' but doesn't promote).. so it would ONLY benefit promoting managers to be in even conditions to managers who are already in that category and can sign a TD before current season ends (to use on the upcoming season).
But what if he does it just to destroy for someone else since he is going to retire or end up in rookie anyway?
WIth your proposal everyone in amateur could offer a TD a contract last 3 races. Let's say I'm dead last in amateur and going to rookie, I could then offer a contract to the ebst TD in pro and overbid like crazy so noone else get him. What would I care since I go to rookie and get my 35M next season anyway.
IMO this is a big no no, if this was implemented, then people promoteing should be able to get drivers from the market above them as well in the last 3 races, would be the same as your proposal but for drivers instead of TDs.
I doubt that there are more then 5% promoteing from amateur to pro who are IN NEED of a TD when they get to pro. This is mostly a problem from amateur to pro where there are not enough TDs for everyone in Pro. When you get to master and elite there are more TDs then there are managers needing them so no problem signing one.
And my personsal oppinion is that the rules should stay as they are in this occasion, if you are in pro you can only elaborate with pro market, you shouldn't be let into the master market. It'll lead to people destroying for others.
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Quote ( Guilherme Bello @ May 1st 2010,02:42:25 )
as it would end the crowded market in the beginning of each season..
it would shift the crowding to 3 seasons ahead, no?
And possibly even make it more crowded, because more ppl who are doubting the promotion spot would make bids.
IMO, you have enough time to make bids before race 1 and only those eligible to make bids are actually bidding. Seems most fair and logical to me.
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Quote ( Fredrik Palmqvist @ May 1st 2010,11:00:08 )
I doubt that there are more then 5% promoteing from amateur to pro who are IN NEED of a TD when they get to pro. This is mostly a problem from amateur to pro where there are not enough TDs for everyone in Pro. When you get to master and elite there are more TDs then there are managers needing them so no problem signing one. This is why I suggested that Amateur>Pro wouldn't be able to do this..
All the other things you said are easily controled by having rules.. maybe only the TOP10 in the group would be able to bid.. or only people who still have mathematical chance to get into top4 'till the end of the season (that is.. the ones who have no more then 30pts less then the 4th in the group).
Quote ( Hans Barf @ May 1st 2010,11:06:10 )
IMO, you have enough time to make bids before race 1 and only those eligible to make bids are actually bidding. Seems most fair and logical to me. Hans, that's not my point.. I do think we have plenty of time to sign before season starts, but what I wanted to do is give equal conditions to promoting and maintaining managers.. How it works now, maintaining managers have the opportunity to sign the best TDs before the new season starts, leaving the rest to promoting managers, u know?
That's what the idea was all about.. trying to give equal conditions to everyone..
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Quote ( Guilherme Bello @ May 1st 2010,21:06:13 )
mathematical chance to get into top4 'till the end of the season
Everyone has a mathematical chance to promote when there are 3 races left. Let's say 36 people go into negative then the 4 in positive balance will promote.
Quote ( Guilherme Bello @ May 1st 2010,21:06:13 )
maybe only the TOP10 in the group would be able to bid..
You can never make this bulletproof. Let's say you are 12th but win the last 3 races and end up 6th and 2 people ahead of you go into negative, then you'll promote, but you wouldn't be able to bid on TD like the other did.
Still what happends with the TDs if you sign them when in amateur, will they just dissapear from the game for 3 races so noone else can sign them?
Quote ( Guilherme Bello @ May 1st 2010,21:06:13 )
How it works now, maintaining managers have the opportunity to sign the best TDs before the new season starts, leaving the rest to promoting managers, u know?
Most of the best TDs are employed the whole season, there might be a few who end up on the market during mid season though.
The idea do have ot many flaws that can't be fixed with rules and such since everyone is aloud to do what they want with their money.
And as I said before, this idea is as good as promoteing managers should be able to extend their driver contract based on the OA level for the level above them.
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#16 posted Nov 16th 2017, 23:57:03
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Having the opportunity to establish a pre-contract with a pilot up to an OA135 before my new season begins in Pro, would have the same opportunity as the manager who will be my rival who is already in the category and who can freely choose a good pilot, So far we are subject to promote first and then try to get the best driver we can by paying expensive contracts, even if the pilots are not so good; I believe that it is something that should be considered, even if given that possibility I will be charged a fee for such an action. It is also at my risk if it does not rise in category, given that the pilot hired and the amount paid for such case would be lost.
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#17 posted Nov 16th 2017, 23:58:14
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I think it would be a fair opportunity for all categories of course
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#18 posted Nov 16th 2017, 23:59:35
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This would give a huge disadvantage to training a driver which should always be a viable option.
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So, you want to avoid having to do what I did basically and not have to pay 3.5m per race for a good driver, and get them before the "madness" of the R1 market? Why should that be BEFORE you actually promoted? Since nothing is guaranteed until the final race closes and you are handed your position money. If you want to avoid the madness, why not promote with a driver trained for Pro instead? I believe that is the alternative, and Michael is quite right with the above comment aswell.
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#20 posted Nov 17th 2017, 00:09:27
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Promoting to a higher level and having to lower driver OA to enable contract extention is more often a "problem"
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#21 posted Nov 17th 2017, 00:53:53
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As I showed in another thread, the average newcomer to Pro is in average 42M richer than retainers (due to the extremely hard economy balance in Pro). Whereas I didn't check, I think we can safely assume the average cash from promoters from Amateur is higher than that of demoters from Master, so the actual money difference between retainers and promoters to Pro is higher than those 42M.
Sponsors wise the difference is big as well. Since I was doing stuff for season planning in Master, I didn't check Pro, but in Master the newcomers arrive in average at almost +1 sponsor compared with retainers (again, probably higher gap if we exclude newcomers who arrived via demotion from Elite), NOT even including the promo sponsors (the data mining was done exactly after the season break, so the promo sponsors hadn't been put online yet). I have no reason to think the sponsorship difference for Pro retainers vs. Ammy promoters should be any lower. If anything, it should be higher.
That kind of enormous money and sponsorship backup for promoters should give them more than enough leverage to easily contend vs. most retainers. Which is what usually happens, hence the extremely high rate of turnover caused quite more by these financial differences than by skill differences.
This suggestion would only make it easier for promoters. Not that I think promoters shouldn't have a chance. Quite the contrary. But as it stands now, the same huge advantages promoters have will bite them in the ass one or two seasons afterwards, when they are on the other, sucky, end of the deal: trying to make ends meet while wealthy new people arrive season in and season out, only becoming worse with this suggestion, because those new people wouldn't only be richer and with heavy sponsorship backup, but also with already decent TDs/drivers.
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