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Topic: Fitness thread (Real life, not GPRO) |
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Willem, I wish Jensen would read all of it XD
MG, I agree with you, yet I believe you may have missed the point.
I'll start with the heart attack, Most likely it happened like this: A guy bought some crazy pre-workout (that shit has crazy amounts of caffeine) he had great results from this buzz at the gym, but his body built a defence mechanism, so he needs higher and higher doses to feel the same buzz. So the 'bro science' douchebag tells him to take multiple scoops, plus he needs to see the gains coming, its fine for a bit more, until his heart does give in. None of the ingredients was harmful in any way, all he did was overdose. The stuff indeed was safe natural even healthy [to an extent] <can't bold this :D
Varsity sports guys (rugby, american football etc) are a weird bunch to watch in the gym. Mostly because 'bro science' is so strong with them. Peer pressure, bad advice being handed out is absolutely outrageous. Nobody 'accidentally' overdose 6+ times the dose written on the packaging. But peer pressure and bro science is a very potent weapon.
No professional personal trainer will ever tell you to double the dose of any supplement just because you don't see the effects anymore. Heck, most of them won't even suggest taking supplements, a good supplementary regime is max 10% of the results (unless you're Jensenian trying to compensate for smth). Anyone claiming that you need to take supplements to see results is a joke (they are called supplements for a reason). All the supplements that I have known/used/researched/heard of are natural (as in you will be getting them into your body with a healthy balanced diet) the difference being their effect is negligible.
But what happens when we increase the dose? How can we be sure that it is still safe? Glad you asked. This is why we have science. This is why we have blind clinical trials. This is why it takes about 20 years until a medicine tested on animals becomes available for human applications. To be absolutely sure of side effects, doses and an expected result from taking that dose. Is it fool proof? No ofc not, but that a topic for another discussion lol.
Quote ( MG van Rensburg @ May 25th 2017,15:55:10 ) but what they don't tell you is the unnaturalness of the muscle mass gained and what that inturn does to your organs, especially those that have to process the waste product generated/produce the energy requirement of a body with so much muscle mass. this is something i have a problem with, at what rate of lean muscle mass gain you say stop, this is now unnatural. You can find a lot of examples of people not taking any supplements and just eating a lot more calories, and gaining a very substantial amount of lean body mass(Alan Thrall for example). Is that still an issue? Say it is, wouldn't that just mean you are not allowed to change your diet at all? Is dieting an issue as well then? You are lowering the amount of calories you consume thus body starts to break down the fat reserves (instead of shovelling the extra energy to muscles in the calorific surplus case, because if you run (natural) you use the muscles, if you eat more food, extra energy will be generally be sent to your muscles). Is being active an issue then? Let's not even start on this lol So now we have established that any muscle mass gained or lost is a natural response of your body (high five mitochondria!)
But surely there is a limit when the muscle/body fat gain or loss is unhealthy anymore? Very good question, amigo! Overexercising is a very real problem (like overcooking a steak). Don't forget to high five your mitochondria again, because it has some absolutely genius feedback loops ;)
To sum up this rant, if bro-science doesn't work it does not mean the science doesn't work anymore. If astrology doesn't work it does not mean astronomy is all wrong. If Jupiter aligning with Saturn did not make you rich, it says absolutely nothing about the relative motion of the 2 planets.
#DontFeedTheTroll
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Its the rate of the muscle gain Im referring to as unnatural. It is gained alot slower via non-supplement route giving the organs, arteries etc a time to develop with it.
I have a son in highshool. Until I got the shock I did when in that hospital, I was all for my son doing it.
And no, these kids arent doing it willy nilly. They doing it undersupervision professional private trainers. I paid close attention to what the doctors were tellong these kids and their parents. Its scary and its facts. Its not a out the size, its about the unnaturalness of it due to being gained via supplements which completely bypass the natural restrictions of how much you'd need to eat to achieve the same 'load up'.
Unnatural by how supplements are shortcutting, using to shave of years of required work to achieve the sorts of results we see ppl now achieve in a matter of months. You honestly think its completely coincidental how we now regularly hear of sportsman colapsing with heart, kidney and liver failure in their late 20's and early 30's? Retiring before they 30. Constant injuries from youg ages ruining careers the world over.
Think long and hard about why you take the supplements. If they are the only way to achieve the goal or if they accelerate the timeframe required to achieve it, serve as a shprtcut vs traditional means of human consumption of source of energy, how is it natural? That was the question the doctor, specialist in the field for over 30 years asked each of the boys in that hospital and it damn sure stuck with me since.
And be careful about blindly believing what the scientists tell you. Depending who ask, who's funding who, the answers will vary astronomically? Heck, look at all the cases from 50's thru to 80's. 'Perfectly safe cigarettes?' History is stock full of bogus scientific reports of so many dangerous things being safe for human consumption. Hell, Coca Cola had freakin cocaine in the original recipe. If history has taught me anything, scientists 'protecting' billion dollar markets tend to be funded by those markets and its dangerous to trust them.
And supplement, I dont mean the low grade, basic protein shakes that more placaebos than anything else. Creatine and the long list of legal sports enhancers and the real 'hardcore' muclemass growing supplements, constantly deemed and treated as safe and natural when they obviously cant be when look at the end results being achieved.
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This is why i wrote that bit:
Quote ( Martynas Bražėnas @ May 25th 2017,20:58:21 ) No professional personal trainer will ever tell you to double the dose of any supplement just because you don't see the effects anymore. Heck, most of them won't even suggest taking supplements, a good supplementary regime is max 10% of the results (unless you're Jensenian trying to compensate for smth). Anyone claiming that you need to take supplements to see results is a joke (they are called supplements for a reason).
Quote ( MG van Rensburg @ May 25th 2017,21:29:16 ) It is gained alot slower via non-supplement route giving the organs, arteries etc a time to develop with it. So tell me, what amount of calorific surplus without supplementation is the biggest acceptable to qualify as safe? Hint - there is none, that's why people go morbidly obese eating a lot and not directing that consumed energy towards muscles.
Do you think all of those bros were on the recommended doses? A coach can tell them what dose to take, the amount they actually put in their mouth is not really done by the coach and thank god for that :D This is where the bro science and even more so peer competition comes in. If there is a guy on the team who is miles better than you, you might as well take 2 pills of coach's recommended supplement, trying to compensate (read Jensensate lol) for areas where you are naturally or not, lacking.
An argument of a particular experience is a weak one in any case. A single example or a single study does not prove anything by itself. Scientific method still holds ground. A single study with ground breaking results can generate a lot of interest, but it has to be rigorously confirmed by subsequent research, after all that human error happens.
10% of the total result using healthy doses :) if you're expecting or trying to get more out of supplements you are on a very slippery slope (yes you Jensen)
Correlation is not causation. Just because someone ate something and died, does not mean he died from eating that thing. Is the thing he ate deadly? Likely, but did he eat too much of it? You don't die from eating a single apple seed. You'll need to eat 200-ish to reach deadly cyanide levels.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=creatine+in+food&rlz=1... a pound of beef contains a recommended daily dose of creatine, better watch your kidneys lol. 6 pounds of beef every day for prolonged times can indeed be bad for your health.
pretty sure we could find similar examples to the rest of those dreadful 'long list of legal sports enhancers'
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Just done a fat chest workout nice and pumped, strength is coming back so happy about that the gains are faster though. 14st 5lb hitting the scales and about 13% BF 16 and 1/2 inch arms so its coming along :)
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#545 posted May 27th 2017, 17:02:50 (last edited May 27th 2017, 17:03:59 by Dave Poot)
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Martynas, am I OK if I swim six days a week for 30-40 minutes each time (breaststroke + butterfly). I sleep early (@ 10pm+) since I do this compare to 12am normal sleep time, am I over tired? Day time, I feel muscle tiredness but nothing major. My objective of doing this is to improve my healthy. Am I doing thing right and is there any tips to improve what I am doing now? Thanks for your advice in advance.
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Yes Dave you can improve 1st buy some gear proper juice TEST DECA D-bol and some Novdex to stop the bitch tiits and to help you sleep some Zops or Diazypans. Then sort your diet out. I promise you you'll feell 20 years younger. stay on the juice for 16 weeks take hornthornberry to help control blood pressure :)
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I never go test my blood pressure yet. Is exercising really boost bp? I always think working out will only improve bp. I am worrying, got to do bp test then.
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Everything and anything can make your BP go up as long as it don't stay high for to long your fine. Doctor told me that he took my BP154 that is high buy expected because of the juice he said I will be fine as long as I don't keep it that high for to long. etc risks all that was EX to me :)
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Quote ( Dave Poot @ May 27th 2017,17:02:50 ) am I over tired? Day time, I feel muscle tiredness but nothing major Muscle soreness isn't necessarily a sign of over training. Alan Thrall explains it lovely here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwKcayYkyAc
you need recovery time (unless you are messing with your hormones using riods)
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Been back training shoulder clicking is getting out of control. I feel like the wrong movement will cause severe injury. Any ideas?
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definitely get checked with a physio, internet forums are not a place for medical advice :P
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Quote ( Luke Frost @ May 28th 2017,11:13:36 ) Been back training shoulder clicking is getting out of control. I feel like the wrong movement will cause severe injury. Any ideas?
Trust me I'm not trying to get you on the roids. but Deca helps with joints you will need to add test though so you don't get Deca Dick. Ask any bodybuilder is Deca any good for yea joints they if they know will say yes and its a great stacker to bulk.
http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-replacement-therapy-low-te...
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Stay natural unless you want to compete in Mr. Olympia. You may not see the negative impacts of roids etc until you get older and then you'll ask why did I do this and what was I trying to achieve. Just being bigger is not an indicator of physical fitness or most importantly good health. Just be careful lads and don't be afraid to seek real professional advice, i.e. physicians.
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A final point on science. Stay with primary publications to get accurate peer reviewed knowledge. Or in other words,,don't believe everything you read.
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Its proven fact steroids used properly are great and are as harmful as smoking weed. Lifting heavy weights natty or roid head is going to cause strain on your heart your body etc
Use them properly don't abuse them is my advice
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It's your kidneys and liver not mine, so go for it. If you want size, lift more weight. As a scientist I always get a little skeptical when I see .....it's a proven fact.
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That's why the GYM on roids is a life style so - NO DRINKING NO DRUG TAKING ! following these facts most people are OK. Sniffing coke on juice causes heart attacks this a very common. HGH Human Growth Hormone is a NO NO IMO this stuff really can F you up. As for your livers and kidneys etc there are pills you can take to get rid of toxins and help protect them. If you take all the right stuff etc and know the risks as you have pointed out Joe then steroids are not that bad. And as for sted rage there is no such thing. If your a calm person and take them you will remain calm because that is your nature. As for me I got a bit of a temper so when I flip people are like "Roid Rage" Its not its just me the way I'm. The biggest thing IMO is bitch tits etc Gyno there are two types both are bad.
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Jensen, debate and differing opinions is a good thing. You seem to know a bit on roids, just be careful.
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Just done a bad ass chest work out then triceps after it, nearly got my 17inch arms back. Not weighed my self waiting for scales to come from ebay, Everyone I keep bumping into seem to say "You Back On The Juice" And with a big fat smile on my face :) YES BABY :)
I love the fact that you stick out like a soar thumb when your on the juice its funny.
I have the best juice going, I don't share or tell anyone where my stuff comes from, most shit you get is bunk. They beg They beg please get us some NO ! HaHa I give them advice that's it
4000+ cals a day I'm trying its hard going though
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So I've started another course of the steroids.
1-5 weeks sus250 - 2 jabs a week Monday - Thursady
1-5 weeks Deca250 - 2 jabs a week Monday Thursday
1-6 weeks D-bol 40mg ED
6-16 weeks Mtest350 2 jabs a week Monday Thursday
6-15 Weeks Deca300 2 jabs a week Monday Thursday
6-16 Weeks Masteron E 200 2 jabs a week Monday Thursday
6-16 Anavar 50mg ED
2-16 Novadex 20mg EOD
Diet 3000+ cals a day
Training 3 days on one day of push pull push
8 hours sleep every night
Water intake 5L a day
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Jensen I'd batter you lad.
I bench press 45kg and do 15 press ups, I'm a head!
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I lift 45kg with my left nut lol
How much you weigh Keeney ? my PB bench press is 130kg At the moment I'm doing 110kg for 4 reps I bet that still weighs more than you lol I reckon you're about 12st nearly 6ft ?
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Quote ( Jensen Owens @ September 1st 2017,15:19:24 ) I lift 45kg with my left nut lol
lol
I weigh 83kg.
My upper body is weaker than a can of carling.
My leg press is decent 320kg PB. Only did 4 or 5 reps though. That was 2 years ago however.
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Quote ( Jensen Owens @ September 1st 2017,15:19:24 ) I lift 45kg with my left nut lol
Good to know it's still there I suppose =]
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Just about Max no joke they can't be any bigger than a 20 pence peace :/
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Thanks Boss :)
I'm trying and enjoying it :)
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