| Author |
Topic: Lowering motivation, most destructive aspect of the game |
247 replies
|
|
|
|
#31 posted Jul 20th 2014, 15:14:07
|
Quote
|
Quote ( Troy Sheahen @ July 20th 2014,14:28:27 ) how much better would it be if we could actually race every race!?
As Max pointed out, this is a management game based in motorsport, not a racing game.
And as Shane pointed out, it´s the same for everyone, so you aren´t the only ones who need to drop a bit of motivation.
And you don´t need to drop your motivation as often as to complain. How often do you need to drop motivation? ;)
|
|
|
|
|
|
#32 posted Jul 20th 2014, 15:19:02
|
Quote
|
Quote ( Troy Sheahen @ July 20th 2014,14:28:27 ) how much better would it be if we could actually race every race!?
Let's have unlimited money! :D
|
|
|
|
|
|
#33 posted Jul 26th 2014, 17:20:33
|
Quote
|
Quote ( Sasa Popovic @ July 20th 2014,10:22:56 ) In the next season I have to lower the motivation of my driver. I think it will take 5 to 7 races to do so, and I will have to enter races just to lose them for a month. That is destructive for players and isn't interesting at all. It makes people stop playing, especially if they get a lower rank.
I suggest that AO doesn't influence the prolonging of the contract.
You can sign a driver for 17 races and then sign them to a 17 race extension. If you carefully manage your driver's attributes that means that you can potentially run two full seasons while over the OA limit for your group. If you're not able to be in a promotion slot by that time then you're doing something wrong. Of course you could choose to stick around in your group a little longer for various reasons, but the consequence of that decision is either a) sandbagging to lower your current driver's OA, or b) getting a new driver.
Everyone has the same conditions to compete with. Everyone learns how to manage OA in this game, eventually. It's perfectly fair.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#34 posted Jul 26th 2014, 19:01:20
|
Quote
|
I think Sasa doesn't deserve all the criticism. He hasn't pointed out anything related to race pace or related to difficulty while promoting or retaining, so it is a kind of a strawman argument to criticize him due to that.
At the beginning of last season I started training a long term driver. The race pace was mediocre, I was spending a lot more than in a regular season and for most of the season my realistic biggest chances were a top 20. Nonetheless, it was exciting. I carefully prepared the strategies so watching the races was a thrill; maybe a good strategy got me a couple of places that I wouldn't have gotten otherwise, or maybe a bad strategy would land me even worse that I should. I also had enjoy with my season plan preparation, so to try to minimize the already expensive season with a young unprepared driver. Basically, it was fun.
Well, this season I'm doing the motivation loss thing. Due to amateur being amateur, it doesn't take as short as in the highest leagues. Filling my setup with 0 and 999 and not doing anything else has been a complete boredom. Yes, this is a management game, and people emphasize management. Well, I emphasize game, and I haven't had too much fun. And it isn't as if Sasa isn't managing. Otherwise he wouldn't be caring about OA control and he would instead do the easy ama to pro promotion thing, hiring an old, experienced driver, already mostly trained, and easily taking him to pro with a full wallet even if the driver salary is high.
With this I'm not proposing any alternative solution. Well, I, for one, wouldn't mind if you could automatically drop the motivation of your driver to 0. I'm aware many people would say that would be unfair money wise, because you would get the race money instead of wrecking your races. Well, I invite those people to try to adequately prepare a young driver in amateur, including a lot of testing, and then talk about money.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#35 posted Jul 26th 2014, 19:07:22
|
Quote
|
Edwin, you're just a greedy bastard ;p
Especially in the lower leagues you can easily promote while training a young driver, but do so "a season early" so that you don't have to lower moti and still be competetive in Pro and get enough cash.
Actually if you promote to Pro with a driver who has not as good stats as he could have, but having high / full moti instead may not even be a bad thing anyway ;p
|
|
|
|
|
|
#36 posted Jul 26th 2014, 19:28:05
|
Quote
|
hahaha, it is not a money thing, Christoph. I wouldn't mind having to pay a huge sum in order to get an insta 0 motivation. It is about the boredom of wrecking races on purpose. I will have to do 1600 testing laps in the next season, with my unexperienced driver. That costs money. A lot.
If my reasoning was about the meagre money I lose by wrecking some races (which isn't too much, anyways, because in exchange I'm evidently not using new parts), I would hire an old and trained driver instead and take him to pro. I've been there (season 39). With those kind of drivers you can easily get +70M balance per season in amateur without resorting any nasty trick such as smoking on purpose so to save money.
|
|
|
|
Yet you keep talking about money and how expensive training a driver is. Well it isn't as you don't have to or at least you don't have to do it in the way you're planning to do with 1600 testing laps. Of course doing that much testing costs a lot, but it's your choice and definately not needed for promo nor for retention in Pro.
You're also way too concerned about a single driver stat and if you want to have it higher, start with a driver who is higher in that stat already which doesn't necessarly mean to hire an old(er) driver.
Actually it's perfectly possible to promote from Rookie to Ama and then straight to Pro while training a driver without having money issues and without the need to lower motivation and still be competetive in Pro. It's up to you how you want to approach it, but IMO there is no need to complain about it being boring to drop moti because you DON'T HAVE TO ;)
It's all personal preference and choice.
|
|
|
|
I keep talking about money and costs because people think the main argument not to produce a better option to lower motivation is because it would be unfair due to the race earnings you get by properly racing instead of wrecking races, and I think that money in the big scheme of things is peanuts. If it was for money alone, there are a lot of better different plans in amateur that don't involve wrecking any single race on purpose even if you could drop the moti to 0 instantaneosly at will.
However, you are right. My plan is far from optimal game wise and I wouldn't recommend it to anybody who prefers a more direct and easier way to the higher leagues. I do it more for fun, because I have money to spare, I really enjoy training a driver as much as possible and because those non trainable stats won't increase by themselves.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#39 posted Jul 26th 2014, 20:04:37
|
Quote
|
Quote ( Edwin Silva @ July 26th 2014,19:01:20 ) Well, I, for one, wouldn't mind if you could automatically drop the motivation of your driver to 0.
Quote ( Edwin Silva @ July 26th 2014,19:28:05 ) I wouldn't mind having to pay a huge sum in order to get an insta 0 motivation.
You can. Go to -$15 million.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#40 posted Jul 26th 2014, 20:06:26
|
Quote
|
Quote ( Kevin Mcferrin @ July 26th 2014,20:04:37 ) You can. Go to -$15 million.
haha, by huge I was thinking more in the 30-40M ballpark.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#41 posted Jul 26th 2014, 20:16:28
|
Quote
|
i just read briefly here but then went back to the very first post to see what started this.
when you have more experience playing the game, you will find out what driver to chose and how much testing you can do and training you can do to manage your driver/game better without having to go heavy negative or throw 8 races....
you will learn how many races you need to get his OA up with the relative training and you can plan your season better.
so many people get a new driver and they are living in this tunnel of i got to test i got to test i got to test and then halfway through the season they realise they are coming up short and then have to make drastic changes to get their motivation down to resign their drivers.
it comes down to experience and trial and error, you will eventually figure it out but unfortunately we all fall before we can run....
i got to pro and been there for 6 seasons now without ever having tested, well i have tested twice since i started playing this game. i first wanted to learn the rest of the game and work it out, now that i have the game figured out i plan to start testing next season for the first time and see how that affects my game cos i have realised in pro you need an above level7 car to promote. which means you need to test. but for rookie,ama and just competing in pro you dont have to test at all, you are just making the game alot more complicated fore yourself while you are learning it and developing.
its like people want to fly a Mig before a light aircraft...
learn the game and see how everything affects everything else, once you have the game figured out then go test and start the "more advanced" part of the game.
first do the basics...
|
|
|
|
|
|
#42 posted Jul 26th 2014, 20:51:01
|
Quote
|
Wow, I've not even been here two full seasons yet, and even I have seen this suggested before (albeit in a slightly different guise).
I clearly don't have the experience of others posting here, but I really don't see a need to change this, or similar, aspect(s) of the game. In fact, I think it would go a long way to ruining the game if it was made easier to build and keep super drivers.
And as mentioned before (lots of times before in this thread and multiple others), Sasa, you are choosing to play this way when you could do things quite differently if you wanted...
|
|
|
|
|
|
#43 posted Jul 26th 2014, 22:46:21
|
Quote
|
Quote ( Stephen Cakebread @ July 26th 2014,20:16:28 ) i got to pro and been there for 6 seasons now without ever having tested, well i have tested twice since i started playing this game. i first wanted to learn the rest of the game and work it out, now that i have the game figured out i plan to start testing next season for the first time and see how that affects my game cos i have realised in pro you need an above level7 car to promote. which means you need to test.
Ouch...that's really going to hurt you if you manage to promote to master.
Quote ( Stephen Cakebread @ July 26th 2014,20:16:28 ) but for rookie,ama and just competing in pro you dont have to test at all, you are just making the game alot more complicated fore yourself while you are learning it and developing.
I agree that testing is mostly pointless in Rookie since everything resets at the end of the season, but you can still learn from it. Once you make it to Amateur though you should start testing regularly. When testing you are building the skills for staff (and of course the driver). At Master and Elite you'll have a very difficult time unless your crew is very well trained, and you'll end up playing lots of catch up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#44 posted Jul 26th 2014, 23:23:38
|
Quote
|
Quote ( Kevin Mcferrin @ July 26th 2014,22:46:21 ) I agree that testing is mostly pointless in Rookie since everything resets at the end of the season
Actually for that very reason it's not pointless. At least if you keep your driver for next season ;)
|
|
|
|
|
|
#45 posted Jul 26th 2014, 23:29:42
|
Quote
|
Quote ( Christoph Seifriedsberger @ July 26th 2014,23:23:38 ) Quote ( Kevin Mcferrin @ July 26th 2014,22:46:21 )
I agree that testing is mostly pointless in Rookie since everything resets at the end of the season
Actually for that very reason it's not pointless. At least if you keep your driver for next season ;)
Indeed, there's more benefits from testing other than CCPs and staff motivation...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#46 posted Jul 27th 2014, 03:08:00
|
Quote
|
Quote ( Joe Manifold @ July 26th 2014,23:29:42 ) Quote ( Christoph Seifriedsberger @ July 26th 2014,23:23:38 )
Quote ( Kevin Mcferrin @ July 26th 2014,22:46:21 )
I agree that testing is mostly pointless in Rookie since everything resets at the end of the season
Actually for that very reason it's not pointless. At least if you keep your driver for next season ;)
Indeed, there's more benefits from testing other than CCPs and staff motivation...
Yes, there is some benefit to the driver as well, but the major benefit goes to your crew and car, at least in my opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#47 posted Aug 16th 2014, 10:12:13
|
Quote
|
motivation is not a skill, it shouldn't count as one in first place.
and it does affect the integrity of the game itself.
I am promoting and I have to stop my performance for a reason that just doesn't make sense.
It also takes away one strategy path which is planning and evolve from an early stage. if that's the path the game wants to go, then why have training at all in first place?
sponsors negotiation, what to say about this...?
I cannot enjoy a full good season because of it...
Season standings become "manipulated" because of it.
and yes, it is possible to obsolete the motivation from the OA and make it more flexible if that's your concern about advantage or disadvantage. Some things just don't make sense, and if we weren't able to evolve and move on to change it, the world wouldn't be what it is today, would it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#48 posted Aug 16th 2014, 10:23:17
|
Quote
|
Quote ( Hélio Romeu @ August 16th 2014,10:12:13 ) motivation is not a skill, it shouldn't count as one in first place.
and it does affect the integrity of the game itself.
However, if you remove motivation, it would be awfully easy to manage the driver's OA, don't you think?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#49 posted Aug 16th 2014, 10:26:31
|
Quote
|
Are any of them really driver skills?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#50 posted Aug 16th 2014, 10:28:33
|
Quote
|
Quote ( Hélio Romeu @ August 16th 2014,10:12:13 ) t also takes away one strategy path which is planning and evolve from an early stage. if that's the path the game wants to go, then why have training at all in first place?
It will be.
Also people high motivation will stay at the top more of the time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#51 posted Aug 16th 2014, 10:36:56
|
Quote
|
I am actually trying to manage MOT right now for my driver and it's proving to be fairly hard. Got one race to get it right. Tick tock, tick tock.
Definitely keep it in the game I would say as it adds to the challenge and the tension!
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Hélio Romeu @ August 16th 2014,10:12:13 ) motivation is not a skill, it shouldn't count as one in first place.
And some of the others aren´t either, but you only complain about the one that you can´t manage as you wish ;)
Quote ( Hélio Romeu @ August 16th 2014,10:12:13 ) and it does affect the integrity of the game itself.
No it doesn´t, just because you can´t manage it doesn´t mean others can´t ;)
Quote ( Hélio Romeu @ August 16th 2014,10:12:13 ) I am promoting and I have to stop my performance for a reason that just doesn't make sense.
If that is the case you didn´t plan it properly, just extend the contract a few more races ;) Nobody forces you to do bad races, you decide to do them in order to lower motivation, extend your drivers contract again and avoid fighting in the market in order to keep a driver for long time. You can´t pretend to do whatever you want without any inconveniences. You want to push the 17 races, you can, there isn´t any rule where it says that if you train a driver you can´t push all the season ;)
Quote ( Hélio Romeu @ August 16th 2014,10:12:13 ) It also takes away one strategy path which is planning and evolve from an early stage. if that's the path the game wants to go, then why have training at all in first place?
Is YOU who want to take away the the planning, at least a part of it, to make it easier for you ;)
Quote ( Hélio Romeu @ August 16th 2014,10:12:13 ) sponsors negotiation, what to say about this...?
Whats wrong with them, plan them in advance like the driver, you like all the advantages of long term planning but don´t like the inconveniences? Pretty unfair...
Quote ( Hélio Romeu @ August 16th 2014,10:12:13 ) I cannot enjoy a full good season because of it...
Because you are planning poorly. You can enjoy a full season, as said, there is no rule about that. Just need to adjust your planning.
Quote ( Hélio Romeu @ August 16th 2014,10:12:13 ) Season standings become "manipulated" because of it.
LOl this part was funny, how they become manipulated because of motivation? please explain.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
well, if everyone plans perfectly well all the time the game, this way indeed, will be destroyed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#54 posted Aug 16th 2014, 11:56:34
|
Quote
|
Quote ( Claudio Szynkier @ August 16th 2014,11:23:54 ) well, if everyone plans perfectly well all the time the game, this way indeed, will be destroyed.
The best laid plans...and you could still do a Keeney; flop when it counts.: )
|
|
|
|
it stays strange that the first thing you have to do when you promote is to lose some races as mutch as possible to drop the motivation enough to renew his contract.
Mostly when you are in a higher group and you need every race to retain.
Ofcourse the perfect people will have just enough driverpoints to renew and to promote but mostly people just lose their driver because of motivation...
Is that to give people that don't train their driver a chance to get a good driver to?
Some call it management, i call it messing up what you have build before.
MOD EDIT - Swearing edited
|
|
|
|
|
|
#56 posted Aug 16th 2014, 12:06:48
|
Quote
|
|
The perfect people gets their drivers stolen off them.: (
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Stijn Everaerts @ August 16th 2014,12:05:40 ) it stays strange that the first thing you have to do when you promote is to lose some races as mutch as possible to drop the motivation enough to renew his contract.
You can hire a driver every 2 seasons, that way you don´t need to worry about extending the contract ;)
Quote ( Stijn Everaerts @ August 16th 2014,12:05:40 ) Mostly when you are in a higher group and you need every race to retain.
If you need 17 races for a retention don´t know what you will say about a promotion season, will you suggest more races per season? ;)
Quote ( Stijn Everaerts @ August 16th 2014,12:05:40 ) Ofcourse the perfect people will have just enough driverpoints to renew and to promote but mostly people just lose their driver because of motivation...
The ones who lose their driver is just because a poor planing, why should people who don´t spend time in planning and doing things properly have the same advantages than the ones who really do it?
Quote ( Stijn Everaerts @ August 16th 2014,12:05:40 ) Is that to give people that don't train their driver a chance to get a good driver to?
Seriously? Imagine you are in Pro, and I promote from Amateur and lose my driver, could you sign it? NO, because his OA would exceed the limit for Pro, and that driver wouldn´t be probably good enough for Master as many training needed. Also, if a good driver appear at the market his salary will go up a lot, to make him a worse option than the ones who planned properly and kept their drivers. You plan you get advantages, you don´t plan you will be always complaining ;)
Quote ( Stijn Everaerts @ August 16th 2014,12:05:40 ) Some call it management, i call it messing up what you have build before.
I call it blaming the game for YOUR errors and bad management ;)
|
|
|
|
I think we need to cut some slack here. Too much strawman argumentation. Whereas Sasa's suggestion was unacceptable, the main underlying concept of wrecking races is, gameplay wise, somekind flawed.
I'm more sympathetical with the guys who dislike the mechanics because I've been there myself. Yesterday was the second race I was able to run properly in 9 races and it felt nice to be back to the game. The rest of the time it was boring as hell. Granted, nobody is forced to do that, in the same way nobody is forced to go to college, so I guess we should tell young people not to complain about high interest college loans either.
Moreover, long term driver approaches aren't a push to win button as some people seem to suggest. It takes long time, it costs a lot of money, you must know how to do that well in order to make it work and most of the times the outcome isn't that cool: people waste months, even years, to take the petty driver to outstanding levels for a manager up there in Master/Elite to snatch him as soon as the rest of the package or luck weren't good enough to sustain them there. Maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't seen too many managers who succesfully took that approach in the recent times if we discount the master 5 ones.
I, for one, wouldn't almost even care if motivation didn't exist in the first place. I said almost because motivation has 2 positive things: it rewards consistency and it is basically the only way rookie level drivers can make it to ama levels quick enough. Other than that, its existency is pointless to me.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Fran Betancort @ August 16th 2014,12:15:27 ) If you need 17 races for a retention don´t know what you will say about a promotion season, will you suggest more races per season? ;)
season you try to promote are mostly the 2th (or more) season in that group...
See the difference?
Edwin, congratz you made me think and that is not a simple thing to do.
Maybe instead of trying to train a driver i spend my time in buying one.
If i see howmutch money i pay to get a desent driver i can put it in the salary to...
Oke the driver will be partly destroyed for other people but hé, that is management...
So maybe Jimmy was right......
|
|
|
|
motivation is too real thing to be ignored or overlooked just because we are in a game.
the same way that luck & presence of mind, which should be itself a kind of stat, should deserve the same treatment (important real elements that build a game).
|
|
Deutsch
Español
Română
Italiano
Português
Português
Français
Polski
Русский
Български
Македонски
Српски
Nederlands
Vlaams
Suomi
Lietuvių
Čeština
Magyar
Eesti keel
Slovenčina
Türkçe
Shqip
Ελληνικά
Hrvatski
Bahasa Melayu
Dansk
Pirate
