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Topic: Calculators |
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#31 posted May 31st 2015, 18:51:14
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Quote ( Danish Dua @ May 31st 2015,18:43:29 ) I have got GO but the thing I wanted to ask is how to create your own calculators
If you're really hard pressed to make your own, start with Microsoft Excel spreadsheets, and go from there.
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#32 posted May 31st 2015, 18:54:46
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Quote ( Paul Brosnan @ May 31st 2015,17:37:46 ) GPRO calculators are a bit like women. You have no idea how they work but some do. Get into contact with those who do and it'll make more sense.
Knowledge without understanding is but useless fact.
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#33 posted May 31st 2015, 18:54:56
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Quote ( Paul Brosnan @ May 31st 2015,18:48:25 ) There's something else that lazy people can use as well to get an advantage on this game even if it is against the rules ;)
Promoting rule breaking? I don't think that's a very good idea Pauline.
Quote ( Danish Dua @ May 31st 2015,18:43:29 ) I have got GO but the thing I wanted to ask is how to create your own calculators
With some simple excel skills, a variety of data, a competence for maths and reverse engineering and a lot of time. Joining teams are useful for this as you can work together to collect more data quicker, and someone out of 10 is bound to know how to do something if you don't.
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#34 posted May 31st 2015, 18:54:56
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Quote ( Danish Dua @ May 31st 2015,18:43:29 ) I have got GO but the thing I wanted to ask is how to get create your own calculators
Mate,that's a lot of job to do and takes even more time to gather all needed data,but that's nothing you should be worried about ;) Soon will be much better.
Anyway,I don't like that calculators give me everything, sometimes I like to calculate some things by my own ...which gives me more ideas for next race and also gives me interesting racing :)
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#35 posted May 31st 2015, 18:55:25
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Quote ( Daniel Mason @ May 31st 2015,18:51:14 ) Quote ( Danish Dua @ May 31st 2015,18:43:29 )
I have got GO but the thing I wanted to ask is how to create your own calculators
If you're really hard pressed to make your own, start with Microsoft Excel spreadsheets, and go from there.
That's what I did when I was racing independently. Can't say that it's the best method but it's the easiest and quickest if you don't want to mess around with downloads.
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Quote ( Josh Clark @ May 31st 2015,18:54:56 ) Quote ( Paul Brosnan @ May 31st 2015,18:48:25 )
There's something else that lazy people can use as well to get an advantage on this game even if it is against the rules ;)
Promoting rule breaking? I don't think that's a very good idea Pauline.
Rule breaking in general is not a very good idea although that means little to some :)
Quote ( Michael Winkley @ May 31st 2015,18:54:46 ) Quote ( Paul Brosnan @ May 31st 2015,17:37:46 )
GPRO calculators are a bit like women. You have no idea how they work but some do. Get into contact with those who do and it'll make more sense.
Knowledge without understanding is but useless fact.
I'll take your word for it.
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#37 posted May 31st 2015, 18:57:06 (last edited May 31st 2015, 19:11:21 by Danish Dua)
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Quote ( John Slevin @ May 31st 2015,18:50:30 ) lol josh
i am new to this i have only done 2 races and already i have learned a lot about wear, my 2nd race i had a tech problem from lap 38
i know why it happened and i have rectified this or so i hope lol
you should describe it more as 40 hrs in 2 races rather than just 2 races. I wasn't learning too much in my start but I am now.
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#38 posted May 31st 2015, 18:59:50
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Quote ( Goran Slunjski @ May 31st 2015,18:54:56 ) Anyway,I don't like that calculators give me everything, sometimes I like to calculate some things by my own ...which gives me more ideas for next race and also gives me interesting racing :)
Agreed. GPRO got less fun when things were easier to work out, but much more competitive.
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#39 posted May 31st 2015, 19:01:41
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Quote ( Paul Brosnan @ May 31st 2015,18:55:25 ) That's what I did when I was racing independently. Can't say that it's the best method but it's the easiest and quickest if you don't want to mess around with downloads.
If it was so quick and easy, more people would be able to make usable spreadsheets.
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#40 posted May 31st 2015, 19:03:39
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Quote ( Josh Clark @ May 31st 2015,18:54:56 )
Quote ( Danish Dua @ May 31st 2015,18:43:29 )
I have got GO but the thing I wanted to ask is how to create your own calculators
With some simple excel skills, a variety of data, a competence for maths and reverse engineering and a lot of time. Joining teams are useful for this as you can work together to collect more data quicker, and someone out of 10 is bound to know how to do something if you don't. I wanted to make calculations from my own effort hence wanted to know a little bit about how to start and this seems right way. I love technical intricacies so it would be kind of fun too
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#41 posted May 31st 2015, 19:03:41
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Quote ( Daniel Mason @ May 31st 2015,19:01:41 ) Quote ( Paul Brosnan @ May 31st 2015,18:55:25 )
That's what I did when I was racing independently. Can't say that it's the best method but it's the easiest and quickest if you don't want to mess around with downloads.
If it was so quick and easy, more people would be able to make usable spreadsheets.
I am talking about using it to record your data for GPRO. I'm rather good with spreadsheets. but yeah outside of GPRO you're right most people's spreadsheets are shambolic.
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#42 posted May 31st 2015, 19:04:46
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My opinion on online tools is that while in rookie they are helpful if your lazy and don't want to spend many seasons learning but from amateur onwards you should be developing your own tools or using and developing tools in a team. What I find more valuable than tools is raw data. I have found thousands of race data online. Personally as I have still analysed the data I personally don't see this as cheating, it is just a time saving way of gathering data for me to put in my own tools.
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#43 posted May 31st 2015, 19:07:52
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Quote ( Goran Slunjski @ May 31st 2015,18:54:56 ) Quote ( Danish Dua @ May 31st 2015,18:43:29 )
I have got GO but the thing I wanted to ask is how to get create your own calculators
Mate,that's a lot of job to do and takes even more time to gather all needed data,but that's nothing you should be worried about ;) Soon will be much better.
Anyway,I don't like that calculators give me everything, sometimes I like to calculate some things by my own ...which gives me more ideas for next race and also gives me interesting racing :) That's what I meant, I wanted to do it on my own and hence was hoping maybe if I could know how these calcs work and how I could maybe with data collection and analysing create something like that on my own(at least try)
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Quote ( Danish Dua @ May 31st 2015,19:07:52 ) create something like that on my own(at least try)
That can be part of the fun here :)
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those online calculators are not to bad, specialy in the beginning.
If you test the first season and try to keep your car the same level you get an idea how the changes work with the weather.
If you join a team try to join a team that has some results. Joining any team will not help you because some teams don't know either.
Save as much as data possible, use GO (GPRO organisor).
Sometimes just asking people that you think are friendly will help you a little to if you ask the right questions or pay them enough...
Friendly people are scars so keep your wallet close :)
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As there Are now sites that charge for a pretty decent calculator is it worth considering changing the game formulas
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Quote ( David Jones-Winkley @ June 1st 2015,09:28:37 ) As there Are now sites that charge for a pretty decent calculator is it worth considering changing the game formulas
That is a very good point. Another point is that old-timers have an unassailable lead when it comes to data. If a team has run with a full squad for 40 seasons they have almost 7000 datapoints to use and all the tracks covered in the rain and dry and can probably build a VERY good tool to calculate stuff.
Let's take wear as an example - it includes so many variables: driver stats, part levels, risk and track specific stuff that you need vast amounts of comparable data to get any real information. After quite some time in the game I can only make rough estimations on most tracks as I have very few truly comparable datapoints.
As for online tools - some are very simple and I would even consider them as legal, like the setup calculators where you enter practice data and driver opinions. Thats the way you do it anyways (I have an excel sheet for that,that works almost as these tools, but I also save the data and get out of it). There are others, like car cost calculators (you get that data very fast) and driver OA calculators (I at least was able to build a rather reliable one on my own in 3 seasons + it is explained offsite in detail on numerous pages).
BUT then there are these calculators that are referenced here that have thousand of datapoints and are very accurate but cost money. It almost makes the game a pay-to-win at lower levels and less experienced drivers. When you are a relative rookie and have access to that kind of data and calculators you are bound to be faster than someone who doesn't because you have basically better everything.
My solution to this problem would be to add some season-to-season variability to the game. For example at the beginning of the season there would be an announcement that engine regulations for this season have been changed and that would mean that wear and performance of this part would be different in some unknown way (maybe 0-20% in an unknown direction). That would disrupt the calculators in a small way at least in the beginning of the season for wear, setup and race strategy. For example and engine change would mean that they are slightly more thirsty, use less revs but are more reliable by an unknown amount. Veterans and able rookies would figure out the difference quickly but they would have to put some effort into it.
Or you could make a complete formula change like the FIA does every 5-6 seasons to shake things up at the top...
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Well, while altering the formulas slightly might be interesting , I have to point out that there are thousands of managers who have access to very good tools and calculators, and still most of them fail miserably at anything above Pro (sometimes Amateur).
This game isnt so much about fuel or tyres... as far as I understand.
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Umm, what's to stop these people updating their online calculators with the game updates? Changing the game formulas wouldn't help.
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Quote ( Andrey Baydin @ June 1st 2015,14:49:56 ) Well, while altering the formulas slightly might be interesting , I have to point out that there are thousands of managers who have access to very good tools and calculators, and still most of them fail miserably at anything above Pro (sometimes Amateur).
This game isnt so much about fuel or tyres... as far as I understand.
I agree. There's more to it than that
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Quote ( Gustav Gerretz @ June 1st 2015,14:46:30 ) My solution to this problem would be to add some season-to-season variability to the game. For example at the beginning of the season there would be an announcement that engine regulations for this season have been changed and that would mean that wear and performance of this part would be different in some unknown way (maybe 0-20% in an unknown direction). That would disrupt the calculators in a small way at least in the beginning of the season for wear, setup and race strategy. For example and engine change would mean that they are slightly more thirsty, use less revs but are more reliable by an unknown amount. Veterans and able rookies would figure out the difference quickly but they would have to put some effort into it.
If the format of the equations remained the same (simply adding a modifier) then it would take only 1 race for tools to be updated ... with a second race confirming those changes.
In other words .... after two races your "solution" would be completely null and void.
If the format of the equations were changed.... a huge portion of the game itself would be changed (opening possibility for new bugs etc).... and I imagine a good many managers (even those completely capable to figuring the new things out) would leave the game in disgust at having to re-learn everything/having all their past work destroyed .... this is especially true if those equations changed every 4-5 seasons.
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Sure the calculators would be updated but it would take some time, so thing would be more equal for a while.
Quote ( Daniel Douglas @ June 1st 2015,15:17:20 ) In other words .... after two races your "solution" would be completely null and void.
That is probably quite true, because they mine such vast amounts of data from their userbase. Some others that don't would be in trouble for some time though.
In the early stages it is mostly about tyres, fuel and driver. In rookie most people (at least when I was there) failed to have an optimal setup+strategy and the one who was closest did well. In ama it is more about current driver situation as blatant mistakes in setup or strategy are less common in the top 20-25 but still they are a factor. By the time you reach pro, you obviously have these thing under controll, but there are still bonuses.
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Quote ( Gustav Gerretz @ June 1st 2015,15:20:10 ) so thing would be more equal for a while.
If you call one race "a while" ... then sure.
One race is all it takes if equations remain the same format (as proven by when new tracks are added to calendar)
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Quote ( Michael Winkley @ May 31st 2015,18:54:46 ) Umm, what's to stop these people updating their online calculators with the game updates? Changing the game formulas wouldn't help.
Obviously they could do that. But before that they would need to find those formulas.
But as said, adding just a minor change to formulas wouldn't be enough as that would be cracked way too quickly.
I would almost like to see GPRO v2 with everything more or less different (but keeping manager's groups and maybe staff etc. same).
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Searching around I found that one site is selling a database of about 12000 races. I don't know what is in there but if it is what it says on the label then that would be pretty damaging to the game. You could get most of the formulas from that amount of data and you would only be left with situational awareness of your group and market luck.
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Quote ( Gustav Gerretz @ June 1st 2015,15:49:52 ) You could get most of the formulas from that amount of data and you would only be left with situational awareness of your group and market luck.
And financial planning. And race strategies. And driver training. And staff/facilities. And sponsors. And tyre choices. And TDs.
Which is all that matters above Ama.
Really, rarely anyone screws up tyres and fuel in Pro. It`s not about that
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Quote ( Andrey Baydin @ June 1st 2015,15:54:22 ) And financial planning. And race strategies. And driver training. And staff/facilities. And sponsors. And tyre choices. And TDs.
Which is all that matters above Ama.
Really, rarely anyone screws up tyres and fuel in Pro. It`s not about that
Finances are not that hard to plan apart from randoms but I always factor in a few for a season. The rest I would put on situational awareness. The fastest strategy is almost always obvious in terms of time but then you have to factor in your group speed and probability of blocking loss. And these you always have to do yourself.
Most people who play this game are in ama or below though so for them the pay-to-win thing is a reality and a pain in the back...
As I said, I don't know what is in the database but it claims to have also TD and different tyres + staff and facilities and testing data SO...
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Quote ( Daniel Douglas @ June 1st 2015,15:17:20 ) If the format of the equations were changed.... a huge portion of the game itself would be changed (opening possibility for new bugs etc).... and I imagine a good many managers (even those completely capable to figuring the new things out) would leave the game in disgust at having to re-learn everything/having all their past work destroyed .... this is especially true if those equations changed every 4-5 seasons.
I imagine good managers/teams will find new formulas quickly. But I can't imagine a mediocre team or alone playing manager to do that.
Best will still be the best. Mediocre one will never have a chance to catch them if the formulas would be changed every season.
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Quote ( Gustav Gerretz @ June 1st 2015,16:07:26 )
Finances are not that hard to plan apart from randoms but I always factor in a few for a season.
I would say that optimising part usage is far from trivial task. Obviously in Ama it's easy to make money last as there is a lot of it available, but that doesn't mean that the plan would be even close to optimal.
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Quote ( Paul Brosnan @ May 31st 2015,17:37:46 ) GPRO calculators are a bit like women.
How many women have you got ?
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