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Topic: Elite group |
38914 replies
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little fight over Tim's services :)
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Congratulations Rimantas and of course all!
I think, he will win the championship! :D
What do you think about it? :-)
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Rimantas got luck this race and this is very important for the champs! :)
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I find it astonishing that with better driver, better car and with tires which have all attributes better yet Raimonds outqualified me. Only possible reason is peak temperature and quite honestly this is very strange to me because I pay 3,25 M more per race for tires yet I'm slower. I don't want sound like whiner but I feel this is not right and should be tweaked. Let's say next season will be hottest in history of GPRO and I will be constantly outqualified by Pipirelli tires. I know that in race I have upper hand due to durability but still I think it's strange and should be tweaked.
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Just realised we have 5 sets of brothers in Elite.
Marek and Aliaksei's drivers.
Bartosz and Andreas' drivers.
Vladimir and Raimonds' drivers.
Luis and Farcy's drivers.
Sergey and my drivers.
Maybe our drivers try extra specially hard to beat their brothers!
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Quote ( Martin Rosina @ July 10th 2012,09:46:20 ) I find it astonishing that with better driver, better car and with tires which have all attributes better yet Raimonds outqualified me. Only possible reason is peak temperature and quite honestly this is very strange to me because I pay 3,25 M more per race for tires yet I'm slower. I don't want sound like whiner but I feel this is not right and should be tweaked. Let's say next season will be hottest in history of GPRO and I will be constantly outqualified by Pipirelli tires. I know that in race I have upper hand due to durability but still I think it's strange and should be tweaked.
WOW...Even BY users finally found what is going on :)
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Quote ( Mark Webster @ July 10th 2012,15:12:19 ) Maybe our drivers try extra specially hard to beat their brothers!
Perhaps a new strategy order could be implemented: "push brother into the wall"
Quote ( Martin Rosina @ July 10th 2012,09:46:20 ) is very strange to me because I pay 3,25 M more per race for tires yet I'm slower.
As far as I know, most technical stats of tyres remained unchanged as of late seasons. Major changes only in tyre costs. So - unless we accept the hypothesis that Admins made some 'unannounced changes' to the weight of the tech attributes, which I do not consider - what is going on this season is no new feature.
What happens is that like we had a hot dry season in S30, now we are getting a cold/wet one in S31. In previous seasons the weather had been mixed enough and the 'extreme' situations we are now watching have not surfaced or have not affected specific managers that much hard as now.
So, the point is that big money does not secure you dominance in Elite. Plain and simple. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with it nor the Admins are to blame.
It's up to each one to decide how much to pay for tyres and - this may be a noob comment - IMO I dont see any advantageous cost/benefit scenario in taking any of the big tyres ("big" as in costs) when it was clear the vast majority would be taking cheaper BYs.
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my point is that how can i make sound decision when decesion shoud be based on completly random weather attribute - temperature
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above 50 and rain. Will be BR faster? :D
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the average temperature for the season pull up to Bridgerock :)
waiting 70 in the Ahvenisto :D
ps.. Tomasz, congrats with win )
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thx ,and hattrick in elite :)
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Quote ( Tomasz Kaminski @ July 10th 2012,23:14:15 )
acima de 50 e da chuva. Será BR mais rápido? : D
I think the tires are on the same level ... what will differentiate the beginning of the race will be the driver ...
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Damn it....... Lost second place :( Waiting 6 races for perfect weather, and finally getting fu**ed so hard...... Just unfair.....
But incoming race looks even more crazy...... Like racing on surface of Sun :D
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Quote ( Rogerio Pereira @ July 10th 2012,18:25:40 ) It's up to each one to decide how much to pay for tyres and - this may be a noob comment - IMO I dont see any advantageous cost/benefit scenario in taking any of the big tyres ("big" as in costs) when it was clear the vast majority would be taking cheaper BYs.
If I understand you correctly, you're saying that expensive tyres are not worth the extra cost. By the tyre choices this season, it appears we almost all agree. The admins will change this next season, of that I'm sure.
*Prays for BY to be priced at $6m*. Hehe.
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Quote ( Mark Webster @ July 11th 2012,11:14:51 )
*Prays for BY to be priced at $6m*. Hehe.
Don't give them any ideas, my finances are tight enough as it is.
P.S. I was going to wait until I was actually in this group to post here but I guess having promotion secured will have to do.
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I would definitely appreciate an increase in the BY prices for next ssn :d
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Quote ( Dan Neumann @ July 11th 2012,11:33:52 ) P.S. I was going to wait until I was actually in this group to post here but I guess having promotion secured will have to do.
Im keeping your spot warm for you Dan :-)
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Quote ( Martin Rosina @ July 10th 2012,19:12:49 ) my point is that how can i make sound decision when decesion shoud be based on completly random weather attribute - temperature
Sorry, Martin. I'm not saying you are out of reason. To a certain extent you've got a very valid point. However, as you see, all are in the same boat (says the guy that was "left for dust" in M4 for 13 races this season on Yokos, before temps and conditions were right last one).
It can definitively be devastating when you put time and energy for no hope of return.
Quote ( Mark Webster @ July 11th 2012,11:14:51 ) If I understand you correctly, you're saying that expensive tyres are not worth the extra cost.
For this season's weather profile, definitively the BR/Ms proved (now) a waste of money, yes, that's my opinion. But, as I said, we all know this now and not beforehand - and I think here's the link with Rosina's (fair, IMO) indignation.
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Quote ( Janne Väänänen @ July 11th 2012,11:41:54 ) I would definitely appreciate an increase in the BY prices for next ssn :d
I would definetely delete temperature as stat (make all identical for every tire) same time keeping all other stats in their place
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Quote ( Daneks Britāls @ July 11th 2012,20:33:07 ) I would definetely delete temperature as stat (make all identical for every tire) same time keeping all other stats in their place
At least is more real...
In master, in a race with very high grip, not raining and temps around 40º is very easy to take points with P, even win races. I know that performance don't need to be directly related with the price but, imho, P taking points in master is a little bit ridiculous... Also there is something that is bothering me more than the tyres price vs performance: Weather random vs tyres peak temp. Is complicated to be a little bit smart in this game when we are surounded with so many random things. Tyres peak temp vs weather conditions during one season is, maybe, the most random piece of this game atm, at least in high groups (M and E).
I believe that the crew is aware of these situations and will do something very soon :)
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Quote ( Paulo Pinto @ July 11th 2012,21:04:03 ) I believe that the crew is aware of these situations and will do something very soon :)
What can they realistically do though? Either regulate the weather conditions in some way or overhaul the tyre characteristics. Both aren't good options in my opinion.
Quote ( Keri Lovellov @ July 11th 2012,12:03:56 ) Im keeping your spot warm for you Dan :-)
Cheers mate, shame you are leaving though.
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Quote ( Dan Neumann @ July 11th 2012,21:07:18 ) overhaul the tyre characteristics
It's just one that is not much realistic imho ;) ...and it's not the price.
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The performance loss when temps derive from peak temp is, apparently, too steep. Paulo is right about PPs winning in Master. It's rare and quite a feat, but it should not be possible at all in realistic terms.
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Quote ( Daneks Britāls @ July 11th 2012,20:33:07 )
I would definetely delete temperature as stat (make all identical for every tire) same time keeping all other stats in their place
I would definitely not delete it, ok nerf it's importance by 20-25% but take that away and you take away choice. With BY's you choose to benefit in cold races, pick BR's and you choose to benefit in hot races.
Of course we can't predict what the temperatures are going to be but that's another discussion, and one that takes precedence over tyre temperature stat IMO.
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Quote ( Mark Webster @ July 12th 2012,11:06:11 ) I would definitely not delete it, ok nerf it's importance by 20-25% but take that away and you take away choice. With BY's you choose to benefit in cold races, pick BR's and you choose to benefit in hot races.
I'm more along those lines. Keep peak temp, perhaps a bit adjusted, but yet not that much to warrant BR/M unstopable dominance. Just a minor tweak. Then price the 3 big ones (BY, M and BR) at 5M. Presto!
People will choose based on what specific advantage each tyre offer, as the weather system wont change.
This way, Master and PRO will work with Y and D (very underused type at the moment), and Elite fights with the other 3. Pretty even.
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Quote ( Rogerio Pereira @ July 12th 2012,15:55:50 ) D (very underused type at the moment)
That's because it's overpriced for what it is. Yoko is the consistent tyre, mid-peak temperature, decent everything except durability, so Dunno's either has to be become Bridgerock-Lite or BadYear-Lite. Either that or they need to be priced at the same as Yoko's (even then if I was a Pro I'd still pick Yoko's).
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Quote ( Rogerio Pereira @ July 12th 2012,15:55:50 ) Then price the 3 big ones (BY, M and BR) at 5M.
Actually, It doesnt make sense with current stats. If the case, all the field will jump to BR.
IMO, BR and M are overpriced, especially Michelini. Decrease M in 2M and BR in 1M. And at last, restablish original BR peak temp (29ºC). Temperature influence as stat doesnt need to be changed.
BY is not a super tyre, in the best case is the best option in relation price x benefits.
I repeat, this is the first time we gonna have a BY champ, but thats because Elite is sufficiently matured to make the best choices and the strongest managers are on them and of course, this season as an exception is very good for BY.
Why nobody complains when we have a good season for the most expensive tyres?
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Quote ( Rogerio Pereira @ July 12th 2012,15:55:50 ) I'm more along those lines. Keep peak temp, perhaps a bit adjusted, but yet not that much to warrant BR/M unstopable dominance. Just a minor tweak. Then price the 3 big ones (BY, M and BR) at 5M. Presto!
Crazy idea.
Quote ( Rogerio Pereira @ July 12th 2012,15:55:50 ) People will choose based on what specific advantage each tyre offer, as the weather system wont change.
No everybody will go for the same which is BR and the weather system is a random system so how would you plan to change that?
Quote ( Leandro Sereno  @ July 12th 2012,16:39:10 ) IMO, BR and M are overpriced, especially Michelini. Decrease M in 2M and BR in 1M. And at last, restablish original BR peak temp (29ºC). Temperature influence as stat doesnt need to be changed.
BY is not a super tyre, in the best case is the best option in relation price x benefits.
I repeat, this is the first time we gonna have a BY champ, but thats because Elite is sufficiently matured to make the best choices and the strongest managers are on them and of course, this season as an exception is very good for BY.
Why nobody complains when we have a good season for the most expensive tyres?
I couldn't agree more.
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I don't think Bridgerocks are overpriced; I think they're underpowered.
They need to be extremely expensive so that only elite title contenders pick them; they also need to have a definitive edge over the competition, which they are generally lacking, so that the elite title contenders are forced onto them, at the price of compromising their following seasons.
It should be impossible for title winning elites to pick the best tyre, test every race and make a profit on the season. It should also be impossible to win the elite title without the best (i.e. most expensive) tyre.
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Quote ( Sion Francis @ July 12th 2012,17:16:58 ) They need to be extremely expensive so that only elite title contenders pick them; they also need to have a definitive edge over the competition, which they are generally lacking, so that the elite title contenders are forced onto them, at the price of compromising their following seasons.
It should be impossible for title winning elites to pick the best tyre, test every race and make a profit on the season. It should also be impossible to win the elite title without the best (i.e. most expensive) tyre.
like this post!
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