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Topic: Is Nico Rosberg the worst F1 Workld Champion ever? YES! |
213 replies
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Quote ( Dave Pegg @ December 11th 2017,16:54:03 ) FANTASTICShumy, Lewis, Seb V. Alonso. Max. Ayrton Senna.GREATMassa, Ricciardo, Kimi, Prost No Mika Hakkinen? Thats shocking! :P
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Schumy said that the best driver he ever haced was Hakkinen. And remember, he raced with Senna, Prost, Alonso, Lewis, Seb, Massa, Kimi, Ricciardo. So only Max missing from that list :p
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Quote ( Matija Gjurčević @ December 11th 2017,23:46:58 ) Schumy said that the best driver he ever haced was Hakkinen. And remember, he raced with Senna, Prost, Alonso, Lewis, Seb, Massa, Kimi, Ricciardo. So only Max missing from that list :p
He only race with Ricciardo for 2 seasons when he was in HRT and first year Toro Rosso so its unfiar to make that assumption. Tbh anyone in the "2nd career" of Schumi you can possibly rule out Hamilton and possibly Vettel also in his best driver debate
Even then, Schumacher's was probably 1994-2006 so he raced against properly Raikkonen, Hill, Hakkinen, Coulthard, Barrichello, Montoya, Villeneuve and possibly R.Schumacher. Out of all them, no doubt, Hakkinen was the best driver
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Quote ( Matija Gjurčević @ December 11th 2017,23:46:58 ) Schumy said that the best driver he ever haced was Hakkinen. And remember, he raced with Senna, Prost, Alonso, Lewis, Seb, Massa, Kimi, Ricciardo. So only Max missing from that list :p
He did say that, but he said it before he ever raced against Alonso, Lewis, Seb, Ricciardo - possibly Kimi too
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Wow, you guys really couldn't care less about the champions who cheated/won through very unsporting behaviour could you? Just the one's who apparently got "lucky" in some way?
How come?
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Quote ( Riley Dunlop @ December 12th 2017,10:44:45 ) Quote ( Matija Gjurčević @ December 11th 2017,23:46:58 )
Schumy said that the best driver he ever haced was Hakkinen. And remember, he raced with Senna, Prost, Alonso, Lewis, Seb, Massa, Kimi, Ricciardo. So only Max missing from that list :p
He did say that, but he said it before he ever raced against Alonso, Lewis, Seb, Ricciardo - possibly Kimi too
He raced against Kimi and Alonoso then.
And also, even tough he wasn't so great in his comeback run, I think he could judge drivers by just seeing how they race.
I don't think Hakkinen was the best of all of them, but if Schumy said that he thinks Hakkinen was the best out of all of them, that has to at least mean something.
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Quote ( Jon Day @ December 11th 2017,14:26:05 ) Quote ( Robert Enright @ December 11th 2017,10:28:58 )
If you're a world champion I think it's completely disingenuous to even say the guy doesn't deserve the title. He won it fair and square In reality there have been very few world championships won "fair and square"....Although I may be saying this as a "butt hurt" Ivan Capelli and Jean Alesi fan. :P
Same! Well, mainly a Capelli fan, but liked Alesi too. 1990 Paul Ricard - best F1 race of all time ;-)
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Quote ( Matija Gjurčević @ December 12th 2017,15:43:13 ) I think he could judge drivers by just seeing how they race.
I also value the judgements of people are close enough to it to know what they are talking about (which excludes 99.9% of people on social media and 90% of journalists).
In this sense I find it interesting that the F1 team bosses voted Hamilton as best driver of 2016, by a large margin. Rosberg who 'beat Hamilton' was a distant third in that list, behind Verstappen. I don't think it ever happened before that a world champion was beaten by his team mate in this list.
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I have enjoyed F1 for a long time and you could see that Rosberg was doing enough to keep the points tally above Hamilton. He knew he had a lucky start to the season and simply had to follow Hamilton home to the world title. He still had to hope that reliability didn't get him. Hamilton drove hard and got the victories. He did everything he needed to do to win, but Rosberg just had to sit behind him in second and count down the days.
I don't think that makes him a bad champion.
Look at Mike Hawthorn from '58. Won only 1 race to Moss' 4, but became champion.
Or Jochen Rindt in '70 where he had enough of a margin at the half season, that Dying! didn't stopping him from becoming champion.
Mercedes are strong and Hamilton is a fighter. He will often be considered the better driver against whoever he goes up against.
I like Rosberg, but he found himself in a good position and simply defended his points total to the end of the season.
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Quote ( Stuart Aspey @ December 12th 2017,16:23:43 ) I have enjoyed F1 for a long time and you could see that Rosberg was doing enough to keep the points tally above Hamilton. He knew he had a lucky start to the season and simply had to follow Hamilton home to the world title. He still had to hope that reliability didn't get him. Hamilton drove hard and got the victories. He did everything he needed to do to win, but Rosberg just had to sit behind him in second and count down the days.
This was only the situation after Malaysia though. Before that, Rosberg was trying quite hard, but whenever he did, it usually ended in tears (Barcelona, Austria, Spa).
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Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ December 12th 2017,16:29:39 ) Quote ( Stuart Aspey @ December 12th 2017,16:23:43 )
I have enjoyed F1 for a long time and you could see that Rosberg was doing enough to keep the points tally above Hamilton. He knew he had a lucky start to the season and simply had to follow Hamilton home to the world title. He still had to hope that reliability didn't get him. Hamilton drove hard and got the victories. He did everything he needed to do to win, but Rosberg just had to sit behind him in second and count down the days.
This was only the situation after Malaysia though. Before that, Rosberg was trying quite hard, but whenever he did, it usually ended in tears (Barcelona, Austria, Spa).
True, it wasn't as though he was sitting back during the whole season, of course he took hard fought victories, but many argue, in Hamilton's' absence. But yes, he still had to be faster than everyone around him in order to win. As did Bottas in this years season.
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Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ December 12th 2017,16:29:39 ) This was only the situation after Malaysia though. Before that, Rosberg was trying quite hard, but whenever he did, it usually ended in tears (Barcelona, Austria, Spa).
Or the time where he smashed Hamilton in Singapore into oblivion.
People only remember Hamilton's big wins, never Rosberg's, like in Baku where he knew what setting to change, where he was quicker in Austin in 2015 until his mistake and passed Hamilton(HAMTILIDIE fans always forget that, he never passed our hero).
He more than held his own and troubled him. He passed him in a massively impressive move into turn 1 in Spain, where I'm sure it entered his mind that Hamilton would try and run him off the road like he's done many times. And it was 50/50 blame for the crash, even more so on Hamilton for being an idiot driving into a closing door, no matter the closing speed, well done Lewis, really smart.
And add to that, a move on Verstappen in Abu Dhabi which was fantastic, where as Hamilton beans it when trying it in Suzuka.
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So one of Rosberg's big wins was in Austin in 2015 where he made a mistake and... lost the win. You're making a lot of sense again Robert. :)
Regarding Barcelona, it is true that the stewards didn't want to intervene so declared it a racing incident, but the letter of the law says Rosberg was at fault (because Hamilton had his front wing alongside while still having all wheels on track, which is exactly what the rules stipulate as the condition for your opponent to be obliged to leave one car's width, which Rosberg didn't). I'm fine with him not getting penalized, but the rules are quite clear in this matter.
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Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ December 12th 2017,16:48:14 ) So one of Rosberg's big wins was in Austin in 2015 where he made a mistake and... lost the win. You're making a lot of sense again Robert. :)
Thanks Jasper, but I won't let you slaughter my hero of recent times so I'll battle my points away.
Letter of the law is the same in turn one in Austin but Hamilton ran him off the road then too.
He also did it in Canada in '16. Stewards are crap.
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Quote ( Robert Enright @ December 12th 2017,16:55:00 ) Letter of the law is the same in turn one in Austin
A turn is a turn. A straight is a straight. Different location, different rules. Don't believe me? Look it up, it's on the FIA website.
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Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ December 12th 2017,16:57:25 ) A turn is a turn. A straight is a straight. Different location, different rules. Don't believe me? Look it up, it's on the FIA website.
Ok, but by that logic, Verstappen should have been banned for what he pulled on Raikkonen in Spa. Inconsistency.
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Nope, because Kimi never had part of his car alongside. I'm not approving of that move, but it was not explicitly forbidden by the rules like Rosberg's move in Barcelona.
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Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ December 12th 2017,17:52:03 ) it was not explicitly forbidden by the rules like Rosberg's move in Barcelona.
Where Rosberg started moving over before Hamilton had any part of the car alongside him?
Quote ( Robert Enright @ December 12th 2017,16:55:00 ) Stewards are crap.
Like the steward (I forget which one) that said something to Martin Brundle regarding the fact that he wanted Hamilton to win at the 2016 British GP?
The stewards really had it out for Rosberg last year. Was it really necessary to give him a 10 second penalty for causing a collision in Austria when Hamilton turned into him and he was the one who sustained all the damage? What about the penalties he got in Germany and Malaysia?
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Quote ( George Slater @ December 12th 2017,18:53:40 ) Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ December 12th 2017,17:52:03 )
it was not explicitly forbidden by the rules like Rosberg's move in Barcelona.
Where Rosberg started moving over before Hamilton had any part of the car alongside him?
It doesn't matter when you start a move. The rule is, as soon as your opponent is partly alongside you on a straight, you have to leave a car's width. Lewis came partly alongside and Rosberg didn't leave a car's width, those are facts. Like I said I'm fine with him not getting a penalty, but all I'm saying is the incident was his fault if you follow the letter of the law.
(And this is just about the only case in the whole F1 rulebook where a rule about driving is made crystal clear. There are basically no written rules for how to behave in corners, but this rule that applies on straights only is a clear one.)
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Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ December 12th 2017,19:00:27 ) Lewis came partly alongside and Rosberg didn't leave a car's width
By the time Hamiton was alongside, there was already less than a cars width of room. Hamilton went for a gap that simply no longer existed.
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Quote ( George Slater @ December 12th 2017,19:06:50 ) Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ December 12th 2017,19:00:27 )
Lewis came partly alongside and Rosberg didn't leave a car's width
By the time Hamiton was alongside, there was already less than a cars width of room. Hamilton went for a gap that simply no longer existed.
What you're saying can only be true if he already had part of his car off the track at that moment, which he didn't.
Anyway, I don't even know why we are discussing this. My point was that Rosberg fighting for wins/positions often ended in tears, and whether the blame was 50/50 or 100/0 or something in between, the point stands.
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Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ December 12th 2017,23:42:14 ) What you're saying can only be true if he already had part of his car off the track at that moment, which he didn't.Anyway, I don't even know why we are discussing this. My point was that Rosberg fighting for wins/positions often ended in tears, and whether the blame was 50/50 or 100/0 or something in between, the point stands.
I seem to remember Lauda coming out after this particular incident after looking at the data and saying that Rosberg was using a wrong setting that sent his car into energy harvesting mode that created a speed differential between him and Hamilton rendering any move by him unsafe.
Also, regarding Rosberg fighting for position; dive inside, run opposition off outside of corner, make the latest apex the world has ever seen. He had one move. That was it. When he got it wrong he would lock the fronts and sail either off track or into the car he was trying to pass.
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Jasper, reality is he made moves he had to make to win the title, like the move on Verstappen and all those moves up the pack in Malaysia and Canada. So please move on.
Mike are you effing serious or have you selective amnesia?
Oh, that time he locked up with no tyres left in Austria. Sureeeeee. Not like your god Hamilton does that. He's the king of lock-ups. Oh wait, he just gets on the radio when he can't pass Verstappen like in Australia or Suzuka.
(Mod-edit: Language, Robert. No F-bombs, please. Thank you.)
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Quote ( Robert Enright @ December 13th 2017,09:45:24 ) Mike are you effing serious
Yes.
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Quote ( James Keeble @ January 27th 2020,16:58:07 ) still the worst ever!
Keeble you can't just comment here and ignore the fact that your own news thread is crying out for the best news anchor it ever had..
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Hamilton is the most overrated driver ever.
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Quote ( Eoin Farrelly @ January 27th 2020,17:45:44 ) Keeble you can't just comment here and ignore the fact that your own news thread is crying out for the best news anchor it ever had..
I think he's ready for the big time, I want a Keeble commentary on tomorrows race, we've needed it for so long.
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