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Du you want chage point sistem?
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Topic: Change points sistem |
32 replies
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#1 posted Sep 20th 2018, 18:32:47
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I think that too little managers gets points and I think that it need to be changed, at least to modern points sistem (10 managers, 25, 18, 15, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 1)
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#2 posted Sep 20th 2018, 18:34:36
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I'd recommend a read of some of the 2800+ posts here...
/forum/ViewTopic.asp?TopicId=13180
It is probably the best thread to continue the discussion if you feel the need :)
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#3 posted Sep 20th 2018, 18:39:41
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If it's changed it spoils old records. No point adding just 2 more points positions for the sake of losing those records.
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#4 posted Sep 20th 2018, 18:41:31
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Quote ( Partick Majetić @ September 20th 2018,18:32:47 ) I think that too little managers gets points and I think that it need to be changed, at least to modern points sistem (10 managers, 25, 18, 15, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 1) ... and 20-22 cars/group?
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#5 posted Sep 21st 2018, 09:45:33
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And maybe, the managers that left at 0 points, count the avg position, not the best one. so we would not have managers with one 10th place and 16 30th places remaining and others with an avg of 15th place relegate.
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Quote ( Partick Majetić @ September 20th 2018,18:32:47 ) I think that too little managers gets points and I think that it need to be changed, at least to modern points sistem (10 managers, 25, 18, 15, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 1)
Quote ( Mato Nikic @ September 21st 2018,09:45:33 ) And maybe, the managers that left at 0 points, count the avg position, not the best one. so we would not have managers with one 10th place and 16 30th places remaining and others with an avg of 15th place relegate.
Perhaps the solution lies here, addressing the means in which standings position outside of the points is determined is a better approach than messing with the point system.
Feels like a much more balanced system for effort over a season.
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#7 posted Sep 21st 2018, 10:31:59
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#8 posted Sep 21st 2018, 10:48:02
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No... This is very difficult, the statistics would show false datas...
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#9 posted Sep 21st 2018, 11:19:02
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There's no need for a points change. Once you get to the stage where the gap between points is just one then using places is the same as points. Sure it might generate a little end of season $ but that system would need to be changed as a knock on effect.
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The question that should be asked is what does the game want to be?
Does it want to be a "copy" of Real life F1 - then they should change the rules whenever they are changed in RL
Or does it just want to be itself - which currently it very much is - then it doesn´t really matter for me.
@Tibor F1 has that every race... ;-)
By the way - the option don´t care is missing from the poll!
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#11 posted Sep 21st 2018, 12:07:15
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@Gordon This has already bled bone.
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#12 posted Sep 21st 2018, 12:54:04
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Quote ( Mato Nikic @ September 21st 2018,09:45:33 ) And maybe, the managers that left at 0 points, count the avg position, not the best one. so we would not have managers with one 10th place and 16 30th places remaining and others with an avg of 15th place relegate. I'm happy with best result counting.
But I would be up for a change to make managers on 0 points be sorted first by how many races they've taken part in that season (so those with 17 races would be above those with 16 or fewer).
Everyone on 0 points deserves to relegate, but if any of them are to stay up, then it shouldn't be those who miss races. IMO.
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#13 posted Sep 21st 2018, 13:20:12
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F1 history shows that the new points system doesnt actually make much of a to the standings. I think only 3-4 seasons were the work champion different to the actual champion
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Quote ( Mato Nikic @ September 21st 2018,09:45:33 ) And maybe, the managers that left at 0 points, count the avg position, not the best one. so we would not have managers with one 10th place and 16 30th places remaining and others with an avg of 15th place relegate.
As someone who spent his first amateur season way out of the points zone, I like this suggestion
Quote ( Andrew Watson @ September Everyone on 0 points deserves to relegate
well thats pretty harsh on us no-pointers
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#15 posted Sep 21st 2018, 13:34:25
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#16 posted Sep 21st 2018, 13:39:09
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Quote ( Mato Nikic @ September 21st 2018,09:45:33 ) And maybe, the managers that left at 0 points, count the avg position, not the best one. so we would not have managers with one 10th place and 16 30th places remaining and others with an avg of 15th place relegate.
I like this idea.
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Quote ( Andrew Watson @ September 21st 2018,12:54:04 ) But I would be up for a change to make managers on 0 points be sorted first by how many races they've taken part in that season (so those with 17 races would be above those with 16 or fewer).
I like this idea.
It should be the first criteria.
Quote ( MG van Rensburg @ September 21st 2018,09:51:04 ) And maybe, the managers that left at 0 points, count the avg position, not the best one. so we would not have managers with one 10th place and 16 30th places remaining and others with an avg of 15th place relegate.
I like this too as a second criteria.
Mod Edit: Double post fixed
Edit: thanks:)
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#18 posted Sep 21st 2018, 14:55:42
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Quote ( Dusan Sevarlic @ September 21st 2018,14:12:03 ) Quote ( Andrew Watson @ September 21st 2018,12:54:04 )
But I would be up for a change to make managers on 0 points be sorted first by how many races they've taken part in that season (so those with 17 races would be above those with 16 or fewer).
I like this idea.
It should be the first criteria.
Quote ( MG van Rensburg @ September 21st 2018,09:51:04 )
And maybe, the managers that left at 0 points, count the avg position, not the best one. so we would not have managers with one 10th place and 16 30th places remaining and others with an avg of 15th place relegate.
I like this too as a second criteria.
Mod Edit: Double post fixed
Edit: thanks:)
Could work the missed races into the avg calc as a last place finish sort thing, so that commitment adds weight.
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#19 posted Sep 21st 2018, 15:01:23
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Quote ( Mato Nikic @ September 21st 2018,09:45:33 ) And maybe, the managers that left at 0 points, count the avg position, not the best one. so we would not have managers with one 10th place and 16 30th places remaining and others with an avg of 15th place relegate.
I think the current system works perfectly with in the money management system of the game, if it were on average place as opposed to best result there would be less tactical manoeuvring/pushing and spend every race with less long term planning.
knowing when to and when not to push is part of the game weather it be by race or season
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Quote ( Partick Majetić @ September 20th 2018,18:32:47 ) I think that too little managers gets points and I think that it need to be changed, at least to modern points sistem (10 managers, 25, 18, 15, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 1)
what i would say to you, without any kind of disqualification of your proposal for what it is itself, is that it would be great to feel the game, what the game is and how it works for, at least, 4 seasons (68 races). 7 races is still a very initial experience and you will understand through the time the system makes sense.
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Quote ( Kieran Taylor @ September 21st 2018,15:01:23 ) I think the current system works perfectly with in the money management system of the game, if it were on average place as opposed to best result there would be less tactical manoeuvring/pushing and spend every race with less long term planning.
knowing when to and when not to push is part of the game weather it be by race or season
I'd venture the argument that the current system of best result takes away from the tactics, rather adding, as currently, the system feels rather biased towards big pushes, rather than actually offering options to the managers.
Points awarded is the benefit of success at the big push strategy. Going the big push should come with risks so we have tension between the retention strategy options. At the moment it just feels like a case of whoever gets the best 'big push' results gets retention. So feels alot like there is only 1 way to play the retention game.
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#22 posted Sep 21st 2018, 15:26:28
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All these replies and no one has said it yet???
GPRO is not F1 ;)
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#23 posted Sep 21st 2018, 15:37:58
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From a game interest point of view, in my case watching a race when I'm fighting for points positions is way more entertaining than a dull fight for 15th. It isn't even that the scoring is wrong, but mainly the number of cars on the track is too high, because paradoxically so high number of cars reduce the tactical options.
It also leads to OBP strategies that more often than not end at failure (in my group in the last ~15 seasons 4 from 66 Conti pickers have ended arriving in Elite, the remaining 62 ultimately demoting a few seasons afterwards, which is even worse odds than if promotions were randomly assigned) and, instead, handicap the odds of other managers with better consistency but difficulty to score without specialized tyres or wrecking their economies with a full car replacement push.
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#24 posted Sep 21st 2018, 15:48:17
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Quote ( Graham Mercer @ September 21st 2018,15:26:28 ) All these replies and no one has said it yet???
GPRO is not F1 ;)
I think I did say it - maybe not so direct as you
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***cough***
Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ September 20th 2018,18:34:36 ) I'd recommend a read of some of the 2800+ posts here...
/forum/ViewTopic.asp?TopicId=13180
It is probably the best thread to continue the discussion if you feel the need :)
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#26 posted Sep 21st 2018, 17:19:02
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Quote ( MG van Rensburg @ September 21st 2018,15:12:33 ) I'd venture the argument that the current system of best result takes away from the tactics, rather adding, as currently, the system feels rather biased towards big pushes, rather than actually offering options to the managers.
Points awarded is the benefit of success at the big push strategy. Virtually every other outcome besides points is rewarded best by average race position. If there were no need to OBP for points or best non-points position why would anyone do it?
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#27 posted Sep 21st 2018, 17:33:48
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Quote ( Roland Postle @ September 21st 2018,17:19:02 ) Virtually every other outcome besides points is rewarded best by average race position. If there were no need to OBP for points or best non-points position why would anyone do it? .
I can see your point, but the problem is the actual effective rewards. Generally speaking, if you aren't getting top 10th-12th consistency in your group in Pro and upwards, you're doomed. I'm a good example for that: in the last 11 seasons my average consistency is better than 10th (averaging season by season; on a manager basis it's better because some managers defeat me one season of big expenditures and they their performance is abysmal the next season) and my current package is way worse than its day zero state (S55R1).
Consistency is very well rewarded only if your consistency is effectively very good. Being consistent 15th-18th won't do: your sponsorship game will be harmed, retention will be quite hard without desperate pushes for points and the income won't pay for the normal tyres and car expenditures in your league. I've been there: besides Max and me, the third longest tenurers in my group are 2 managers who have retained only 3 times (one of them most likely demoting this season and the other one promoting). The rest of the managers either promote as fast as possible (normally with devastating expenditures) or, given consistency is nice in theory but quite hard in practice, demote quite soon.
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ September 21st 2018,17:33:48 ) if you aren't getting top 10th-12th consistency in your group in Pro and upwards, you're doomed. Sure, but a lot of people fail OBPing too. Consistency is clearly the preferred option.. isn't it? It gets you a better chance of promoting and in much better shape. Most people only fall back to OBP strategy when they're low on resources (the exceptions to that seem to be very temporary, involve careful planning and low success rates.)
If OBPing was so overpowered it's existence didn't add a dramatically different and interesting strategy to GPRO but instead virtually replaced the option of playing for consistency, as MG appeared to be saying, then almost everyone who had any success in the game would be OBPing (and they aren't). The two strategies are in some kind of equilibrium and that equilibrium is dictated in large part by the points system. A change to average position standings would remove all of OBP's power and shift the equilibrium 100% to consistency strategies.
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#29 posted Sep 21st 2018, 20:02:16
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In my experience in Master, OBP-ing happens in 2 opposite situations. Once is when managers are bringing their nurtured drivers and go OBP in order to continue developing their drivers while still securing easy retention with specialized tyres. The second situation is managers in a desperate state who are trying to buy some time.
An example of the former is Radek Sus, who went Michis -> Contis -> Dunnos. It was an expensive approach, but he had the cash and the sponsors to make it work, and then continue the same approach in Elite before ultimately being a championship contender.
The latter is followed by many managers and it never works. As stated in my previous post, only 4 managers who picked Contis in my group have been able to promote; the rest of them went down, and the 4 who did, managed so after very heavy expenditures, and all of them are down in Ammy/Pro already besides Radek Sus).
Hence, in fact I don't think OBP-ing is overpowered at all. When used to further prepare drivers it works, but then again it must be fueled by very important resources. When it's a desperate attempt, it always fails. My reasoning, thus, isn't based on stating OBP is overpowered, but on the fact it's dooming both for most people who do so and for many managers who end demoting because of being outscored by OBPers who will fail 1-2 seasons afterwards anyways.
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#30 posted Sep 21st 2018, 20:03:37
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Sorry to ask, but what is OBP?
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