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Marc Meuleman
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Old post #61 posted Apr 16th 2019, 11:52:07 Quote 
Despites all the analyses the only reality is the 31 points gap between Hamilton and Vettel. I think we are all agree Vettel and Ferrari are the only opponent of Mercedes at this time. I realy dont see where and how they gonna close this gap. Only a DNF for Hamilton can bring them back....in the race, and even this happens, there is Bottas to take points. It seems it's gonna be a long season for Ferrari, even we are all looking forward to a exiting season including a battle for the title until the final race.
Peter Willmore
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Old post #62 posted Apr 16th 2019, 12:01:16 Quote 
Quote ( Marc Meuleman @ April 16th 2019,11:52:07 )

. I think we are all agree Vettel and Ferrari are the only opponent of Mercedes at this time


Only because Ferrari have made it that way, If Leclerc was allowed to just race Vettel he would of had at least 5 more points in China, 2 extra points in Australia.
Add to that if his car had not broke in Bahrain he would of had an extra 10

that would have him 53 points , Hamilton on 61 and Bottas on 60, even without taking into account of Bahrain it still would be enough for Leclerc to be 3rd in the Drivers championship ahead of Verstappen.
It's just stupid to be favoring 1 driver this early in the season when so much could go wrong potentially and as shown in China they cost themselves constructors points as swapping the cars likely cost them having 3rd and 4th instead of 3rd and 5th


MG van Rensburg
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Old post #63 posted Apr 16th 2019, 12:37:48 Quote 
Quote ( Peter Willmore @ April 16th 2019,12:01:16 )

It's just stupid to be favoring 1 driver this early in the season when so much could go wrong potentially and as shown in China they cost themselves constructors points as swapping the cars likely cost them having 3rd and 4th instead of 3rd and 5th



Especially considering the propensity of one of the drivers to self-implode under pressure.
Niek Nijboer
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Old post #64 posted Apr 16th 2019, 13:02:19 Quote 
But Ferrari has been doing this forever, I cna't remember a year when they had 2 drivers competing for the title. It has been always a clear number 1 driver plus a support driver. This year ain't different, as from the beginning they have announced that Leclerc will be supporting Vettel. Probably they were expecting an adaptation time for leclerc and a bit surprised with his performance form the beginning.
Peter Willmore
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Old post #65 posted Apr 16th 2019, 13:13:34 Quote 
Quote ( MG van Rensburg @ April 16th 2019,12:37:48 )

Especially considering the propensity of one of the drivers to self-implode under pressure.


lol yup

Quote ( Niek Nijboer @ April 16th 2019,13:02:19 )

But Ferrari has been doing this forever, I cna't remember a year when they had 2 drivers competing for the title. It has been always a clear number 1 driver plus a support driver. This year ain't different, as from the beginning they have announced that Leclerc will be supporting Vettel. Probably they were expecting an adaptation time for leclerc and a bit surprised with his performance form the beginning.


Can disagree with anything you said there, I must also say I have been very impressed by how Leclerc has conducted himself on and off the track
MG van Rensburg
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Old post #66 posted Apr 16th 2019, 15:37:19 (last edited Apr 16th 2019, 15:51:17 by MG van Rensburg) Quote 
Quote ( Peter Willmore @ April 16th 2019,13:13:34 )

Can disagree with anything you said there, I must also say I have been very impressed by how Leclerc has conducted himself on and off the track



I wonder how long he'll stay with Ferrari if an opportunity comes knocking to race for championships, or is there some sort of notice that Vettel isn't going to be around much longer, and then he'll get that number 1 spot himself?
Jasper Coosemans
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Old post #67 posted Apr 16th 2019, 15:45:10 Quote 
I'm pretty sure Vettel will be out of Ferrari before Leclerc will. I think for Vettel it will be 2014 all over again, when he couldn't deal with new kid Ricciardo in his team.
Lyee Chong
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Old post #68 posted Apr 17th 2019, 04:27:24 Quote 
It is really ugly to see the Ferrari went for team order, you can argue that it is a good call or so, but can't they do it in a nicer way?

The Mercs actually also beat the Ferrari in the other way, by executing a "nicer" team order, at least to me.

Isn't the Mercs' double stack stop tactic also some kind of "team order"? Well, it was carried out perfectly, and looks like no one is losing time. But I struggle to understand why can't the first car to pit pit 1 lap earlier? Or the 2nd car to pit pit 1 lap later?
I mean this tactic simply risk Bottas to suffer loss of time unnecessarily. Just imagine if anything goes haywire in the pit.
With this, Bottas also lost the opportunity to do something "differently", like maybe to catch up Ham, or even to overtake Ham.
I only see Toto opt to do this to ensure the cars order of Mercs team are no change after the pit.
Peter Willmore
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Old post #69 posted Apr 17th 2019, 07:50:19 Quote 
I disagree Lyee, the reason that the Merc's double stacked them was to protect Bottas from the under cut.

If you remember earlier in the race Verstappen was 4/5 secs behind Vettel and Vettel came out of the pit's barely ahead of him.

It was to ensure that both the Mercedes got out ahead of the Ferrari's, so I guess in that sense it was a team order and Mercedes do run team orders but not in the same blinkered way Ferrari do this early in the season
Michael Jones
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Old post #70 posted Apr 17th 2019, 08:43:43 Quote 
Ferrari have for a long time run team orders.

You only have to go back to Schumi times and his partner was not allowed to win and Im pretty sure if they had the chance he would not have won the titles he did.
Roland Postle6
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Old post #71 posted Apr 17th 2019, 17:03:49 (last edited Apr 17th 2019, 17:05:01 by Roland Postle) Quote 
Quote ( Lyee Chong @ April 17th 2019,04:27:24 )


Isn't the Mercs' double stack stop tactic also some kind of "team order"? Well, it was carried out perfectly, and looks like no one is losing time. But I struggle to understand why can't the first car to pit pit 1 lap earlier? Or the 2nd car to pit pit 1 lap later?
I mean this tactic simply risk Bottas to suffer loss of time unnecessarily. Just imagine if anything goes haywire in the pit.

Way I see it they couldn't pit Bottas first and Hamilton a lap later or the undercut might have put Bottas in the lead and it'd be awkward asking him to give the place back. They *could* have pitted Bottas a lap later since he had a whole 10seconds gap over Vettel after the pit and had no chance of getting out ahead of Leclerc either way, but it was better not to give Vettel an extra lap to reduce that gap and if they did leave Bottas out in the lead maybe he'd smell the win and start saying he could finish the race without pitting.. (though it looked unlikely with 20 laps to go)?

It did feel a bit like team orders, the pit instructions were really firm ("Box box box box box. Box box box..") and seemed late so no chance for drivers to challenge the decision, but it was at least the fair kind which maintained their relative positions and improved both their tyre situations.
Jasper Coosemans
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Old post #72 posted Apr 17th 2019, 17:11:38 Quote 
By pitting them on the same lap, neither of them got any advantage over the other. I'd say that is the opposite of team orders.
Mike Brummert
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Old post #73 posted Apr 18th 2019, 14:34:31 Quote 
Top marks for Seb taking it out on the press. If there’s ever a sign that someone’s head is in a bad place, it’s giving angry journalism lessons in press conferences.
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