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Forum topic poll
What should be the point system
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Topic: Point system |
271 replies
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Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ November 21st 2020,18:49:03 ) I wouldn't call having to only score points once in order to retain competitive.
Check S78 Pro standing. Most of the groups needed to score more than once to retain.
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Quote ( József Ozsvár @ November 21st 2020,13:33:25 ) Lot of players would like to change and evolve but the another part of the playerbase is want to stay in the same pond forever.
I dislike this kind of leading language, implying that change is universally positive and continuity is synonymous with stagnation. The primary concern in a game like this one should not be what is fresh, but what works.
Each suggestion should be assessed on its individual merit, otherwise what we end up with is change for change's sake, in a game that is predicated upon long-term planning. This particular suggestion has been debated many times, and its potential benefits largely debunked.
Perhaps skimming through the forums and digesting the relevant arguments would be preferable to forming opinions about the community based on incomplete information.
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Quote ( Toms Polis @ November 21st 2020,19:02:48 ) Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ November 21st 2020,18:49:03 )
I wouldn't call having to only score points once in order to retain competitive.
Check S78 Pro standing. Most of the groups needed to score more than once to retain.
As has already been mentioned, out of the 25 Pro divisions the following happened:
3 groups - scored 1 point to survive
7 groups - scored 2 points
3 groups - scored 3 points
3 groups - scored 4 points
2 groups - scored 5 points
3 groups - scored 6 points
1 group - scored 7 points
2 groups - scored 8 points
1 group - scored 10 points
So on average, it seems you should look to score around 4 points to have a chance of survival but perhaps we could introduce fastest lap gets an extra point.
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Quote ( Max Watson @ November 21st 2020,19:26:52 )
I dislike this kind of leading language, implying that change is universally positive and continuity is synonymous with stagnation. The primary concern in a game like this one should not be what is fresh, but what works.
Each suggestion should be assessed on its individual merit, otherwise what we end up with is change for change's sake, in a game that is predicated upon long-term planning. This particular suggestion has been debated many times, and its potential benefits largely debunked.
Perhaps skimming through the forums and digesting the relevant arguments would be preferable to forming opinions about the community based on incomplete information.
I do not meant my wording as a leading language I am just implying the games and this game also needs to evolve for good. Not saying every change is universally positive but once a problem is found or just an option possible to change for the better then it is higher the chance to become positive change. Not changing for the sake of change but if you look around in lower leagues where the starter players join and leave mostly because the time investment not always meeting with the benefits.
Not so much player want make effort if there is no way to reach something. My example is not exactly bad and I do not have problem with the challenge but not see the reason why cannot the system be improved or others tested like private leagues or just multi layer leagues. Like rookie and amateur have a 10 or 20 point system with the first 20 player rewarded with points (still there are 20) who could not get points also the points could be changed a bit.
I am always seeking for the options and possibilities and my opinion formed on my past experiences and overall experiences by my game time. I do play games for a long time by now and the experiences made me think deeper.
Maybe not fully complete the information here but the chance for new players leave the game before reach something is partially the point system and the less variety in race challenges. Also the game is using rng like many ones so the efforts not every time awarded.
Adding more points is only mean more player have chance to earn points and with it a little more money but this still not mean you are happy with your one point. In my readings you still want to win the maximum possible points so the efforts and challenge is still there.
On higher levels there are options to test other point/race lenght/competition size variations which means the challenge is still there. These are just options, not meant to be necessary but I guess the game is more fun to play with humans than bots.
I can only speak for my name also feel free to agree/disagree.
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i agree with this last post, i must say i did quit the game before because of the point system. Now I am trying again and trying not to get too annoyed with it.
But when you just get promoted and out 40 drivers only the top8 get points it becomes pretty boring if you are around 20-30th position.
ideally top15 or top20 would make this game so much better and rewarding.
But I see that the common ground in this suggestion topic is that a big group of the player base doesn't want change.
I am quite suprised by the outcome of the poll of this thread tbh, I mean what harm can it do to give some more people points, for the top drivers it doesnt matter that much.
i really thing this could help keeping new managers on board.
the f1 point system nowadays is based on a 20 car grid, this game has a 40 car grid.
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Quote ( David Danser @ January 14th 2021,15:12:20 ) i agree with this last post, i must say i did quit the game before because of the point system. Now I am trying again and trying not to get too annoyed with it.
But when you just get promoted and out 40 drivers only the top8 get points it becomes pretty boring if you are around 20-30th position.
ideally top15 or top20 would make this game so much better and rewarding.
But I see that the common ground in this suggestion topic is that a big group of the player base doesn't want change.
I am quite suprised by the outcome of the poll of this thread tbh, I mean what harm can it do to give some more people points, for the top drivers it doesnt matter that much.
i really thing this could help keeping new managers on board.
the f1 point system nowadays is based on a 20 car grid, this game has a 40 car grid.
The statistics page takes a hit when a new points system is introduced.
I say no, and will always say no to a new points system. The current points system makes earning points a much more satisfying prospect, than if you give points to the Top 15 or Top 20.
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The point sistem if fine, but we should have 1 point for fastest lap.
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Quote ( Jun Ho @ January 14th 2021,15:15:19 ) Quote ( David Danser @ January 14th 2021,15:12:20 )
i agree with this last post, i must say i did quit the game before because of the point system. Now I am trying again and trying not to get too annoyed with it.
But when you just get promoted and out 40 drivers only the top8 get points it becomes pretty boring if you are around 20-30th position.
ideally top15 or top20 would make this game so much better and rewarding.
But I see that the common ground in this suggestion topic is that a big group of the player base doesn't want change.
I am quite suprised by the outcome of the poll of this thread tbh, I mean what harm can it do to give some more people points, for the top drivers it doesnt matter that much.
i really thing this could help keeping new managers on board.
the f1 point system nowadays is based on a 20 car grid, this game has a 40 car grid.
The statistics page takes a hit when a new points system is introduced.
I say no, and will always say no to a new points system. The current points system makes earning points a much more satisfying prospect, than if you give points to the Top 15 or Top 20.
True+Rookie groups would mostly have every single person get points in a race
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the problem with the points system is a for new player like me, when I am out of Rookie I will not score points in probably a couple of seasons..
also in the bottom half of the standings it is really unclear now what kind of result you need to pass all the other players with 0 points.
I am going to try and continue this time, but it does take the fun away, grinding around 20-30thth position with no real incentive in the race.
with top 15/20 I would at least have a small chance of getting points in a race..
but I think people dont want the change because the statistics get messed up or something.
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Statistics, in my opinion, are the most stupid reason there is for opposing a change. First of all statistics are nothing more than an interesting side note, and secondly all game changes affect statistics in a way.
The better argument against changing the points system is the fact that getting higher positions is already rewarded by higher prize money (among other effects). I still think that the current points system works very poorly for this game, but if points are handed out to the top 15, then there will need to be some serious rethinking of the game's financial structure to avoid a situation where the snowballing effect of good results becomes too large.
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Quote ( David Danser @ January 14th 2021,15:34:38 ) also in the bottom half of the standings it is really unclear now what kind of result you need to pass all the other players with 0 points.
Simply get a better result than their highest finishing position.
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Quote ( David Danser @ January 14th 2021,15:34:38 ) also in the bottom half of the standings it is really unclear now what kind of result you need to pass all the other players with 0 points.
That's actually quite easy, the ones with the best results are on top of the non scorers.
If you score the whole season a 25th place and the last race a 9th place, you'll be ahead of someone who was the whole season between place 10-20
Quote ( David Danser @ January 14th 2021,15:34:38 ) the problem with the points system is a for new player like me, when I am out of Rookie I will not score points in probably a couple of seasons..
also in the bottom half of the standings it is really unclear now what kind of result you need to pass all the other players with 0 points.
I am going to try and continue this time, but it does take the fun away, grinding around 20-30thth position with no real incentive in the race.
with top 15/20 I would at least have a small chance of getting points in a race..
but I think people dont want the change because the statistics get messed up or something.
It's not only the statistics, but also the point money. It would make the moneygap wider between the ones that get a good result compared to those that doesn't.
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I would like to see the current F1 points system of 25-18-15-12-10-8-6-4-2-1 being used from S101. Vlad was talking about a possible v2 of GPRO, why not do it and keep the URL. New points system, private leagues, a mobile app, and some kind of complex formula solver can't figure out in 30 seconds... all to be released on a target date?
The points system in F1 changed to this style 11 years ago. I think this is a necessary course of action.
The main statistics that matter are the wins, podiums, and championships. As Jasper has said, using stats as the main reason for shooting down an idea isn't very clever.
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wait what? the whole standing is based on the best result?
Not the average of results?
imo that as an even bigger argument for a better point system..
so consistency is not rewarded but the one freak result?
this not the case irl right?
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Quote ( David Danser @ January 14th 2021,16:00:58 ) so consistency is not rewarded but the one freak result?
of course. We have OBP tyres after all :)
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ January 14th 2021,16:03:15 )
Quote ( David Danser @ January 14th 2021,16:00:58 )
so consistency is not rewarded but the one freak result?
of course. We have OBP tyres after all :)
for me this makes me really wonder if I continue this game, makes 90% of the races even more useless if it is about that 1 result.
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Quote ( David Danser @ January 14th 2021,16:00:58 ) so consistency is not rewarded but the one freak result?
this not the case irl right?
It's the same in F1. For example Giovinazzi and Räikkönen both had 4 points.
Giovinazzi had 2 10th places and 1 9th place.
Räikkönen had 2 9th places.
So Räikkönen is ahead of Giovinazzi.
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Quote ( David Danser @ January 14th 2021,15:12:20 )
i really thing this could help keeping new managers on board.
the f1 point system nowadays is based on a 20 car grid, this game has a 40 car grid.
So maybe it would be better to reduce the grid to 30 cars, for example
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Quote ( David Danser @ January 14th 2021,16:06:22 ) makes 90% of the races even more useless if it is about that 1 result
There's many different ways to play the game so I don't think you should lose heart. Some players like to pick something like Contimental tyres and push in a couple races that are very warm, other players prefer cheaper tyres for consistent performance across more races, but sacrificing tyre performance. I think the game has many, many strategic options and I don't think that should change, personally. You should be heartened when you look at some group standings and see that someone can finish well even on cheaper tyres. Some have even performed very well on Pipi's at this level (and Master) too I should add. I think I did ok on Avonn this season. The point is that it's not so much about the ability to achieve something in one race, but how you plan for the whole season. Planning around fewer races has many, many downsides in the game, I can tell you. Not least sponsors. Which are very important as you go up the leagues. I hope this helps you to at least not lose confidence in playing :)
For me, I would like the game to create its own unique point system than just follow F1. 15-12-9-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 could work just as well if people want 10 scoring places. Imagine if F1 changes its system again, so do we just change it again in order to follow F1? I think it would be better to have our own, unique system, than just follow F1. I do think the current system could do with being updated though just because right now people join here and see we are using 'old' (or very old) F1 structures. I'd prefer it that we just did something uniquely different that draws no comparison and is a good mechanism to move forwards (obviously that's for debate)
:)
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For those who don't read enough:
https://wiki.gpro.net/index.php?title=Points_System_%26_Grou...
Quote ( David Danser @ January 14th 2021,16:06:22 ) for me this makes me really wonder if I continue this game, makes 90% of the races even more useless if it is about that 1 result. F1 uses the same logic (best result, not average result). Does anybody cry?
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just my personal opinion about the game, dont have to talk to me like that.
But fair enough if it is the case irl cant fault the game, although it is much different on a 20 car grid or a 40 car grid.
tnx for your reply Stuart, going to think about it before I put my time etc into the game.. for me personally consistency and every race counts is a more fun way of playing. But that is just my personal opinion,
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But I do agree with others that it's a fair argument to consider some kind of change :
Points System
The old Formula 1 point scoring system (used from years 2003-2009) is used where managers in positions 1-8 get 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 points respectively.
Anyone who did read this, after all, might be put off from playing if they see a game is using a formula based on old/tired/out-dated mechanisms. Not that the current system doesn't work, but there is an argument to be had that its a pretty bad look that the basis of part of the game is from an F1 rule in the years 2003-2009. At least if GPRO had its own system people couldn't criticise or wonder why they are involving themselves in something appearing outdated. If it had its own system instead, I think that would be better....even better than just using the current RL F1 system cos it just leaves the game open to further change for what some might (rightly or wrongly) consider as change for change sake. Which is also a valid argument, even if I or anyone else disagrees :)
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Quote ( David Danser @ January 14th 2021,16:21:20 ) for me personally consistency and every race counts is a more fun way of playing. But that is just my personal opinion
Over a season this is a better strategy from a financial viewpoint, but people look at what they want to achieve and what their long term plans/goals are. This is far better than 40 cars in Pro all on the same tyres all doing the same 2 stop (think 90% of F1 races, the only highlight is a pit error), otherwise it's just a procession of cars running around a track after the first couple of laps worth of excitement.
GPRO is NOT F1, and for that generally we should be thankful.
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Honestly I think the point system doesn't even matter that much, and funnily enough while one of the main arguments of people opposing a change is that this isn't real F1, I'm pretty sure the reason why we have the current system is real F1.
I do still think that 15-20 scoring positions could make it more fair for those that aren't at the front.
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I only have one argument for points for lower places - it will reward consistent players. Because for players with 0 points, the highest position is what matters. So if I will race and be 19th all season, and someone comes and races only once and finishes 18th, he has a higher position than me. But if we had points for these positions, then I would be better because he would get for example 2 points, and I would get 17x1 points.
This would probably change a lot in the fight for staying in the group or relegating. But I don't know if for the better or for worse.
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Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ January 14th 2021,15:36:52 ) Statistics, in my opinion, are the most stupid reason there is for opposing a change. First of all statistics are nothing more than an interesting side note, and secondly all game changes affect statistics in a way.
The better argument against changing the points system is the fact that getting higher positions is already rewarded by higher prize money (among other effects). I still think that the current points system works very poorly for this game, but if points are handed out to the top 15, then there will need to be some serious rethinking of the game's financial structure to avoid a situation where the snowballing effect of good results becomes too large.
This im so bored of people still banging on about stats. I love stats but to not evolve the game because of it. Laughable.
As max pointed out. Suggestions should be looked at on individual basis and see if they improve the game etc
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Let's just remove stats altogether then! If no one cares about them, then no need for those pages to exist! That way, any chances can be done :)
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Honestly, if it's stats holding back the game from improving, then get rid of them for all I care. They're a really fun thing to click through from time to time but they shouldn't be the reasoning for rejecting any suggestions.
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Quote ( David Danser @ January 14th 2021,15:12:20 ) But when you just get promoted and out 40 drivers only the top8 get points it becomes pretty boring if you are around 20-30th position.
ideally top15 or top20 would make this game so much better and rewarding.
Didn’t bother to read discussions after this so don’t flog me too hard if this has been said but 9th place and below DO matter for count-back purposes. If 20 or even 15 people scored points you will probably be ending the strategy of OBP or a couple big pushes to retain. You would probably even have people pushing much more often to stay in top 20 which would be a gigantic change for the game finances.
For those promoting I think the points system is fine and for those relegating I think it has more to do with their management or long term strategy than anything else. There are some things to this game that are not realistic to life such as having 9 tyre suppliers in the top classes. Most of these are done in the name of strategy, points are one of those things. Changing to the modern F1 system might be fun but top 15 or 20 is just too much.
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ January 14th 2021,16:03:15 )
so consistency is not rewarded but the one freak result?
I can see where you are coming from but instead of looking at the game from rookie upwards, why not look at it from elite downwards?
Players learn to plan that "one freak result" as they go up and use it effectively to retain in the group they want.
Yes, that means the amateurs end up relegating at times but it's their fault for not learning how the game works and adapting to it.
That being said, this method is not guaranteed to succeed. One can retain by being consistently fast and it rewards you more in the form of money and sponsor progress.
Your suggestion to have a new points system may lead to other problems that we may not have expected. And F1 only updates it's point system for the purpose of entertainment and to have a more competitive midfield. This game is about management so the points system is not the primary source of entertainment here, at least for me.
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