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Author Topic: [F1] 2020 season 708 replies
Paul Bright
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Old post #691 posted Dec 9th 2020, 20:43:49 Quote 

Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ December 9th 2020,18:11:14 )


Playing devil's advocate, but screenshots can be faked and a confession can be coerced. Just sayin'.

Priceless.....is he your secret crush or something? :D
Stefan Gommans
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Old post #692 posted Dec 12th 2020, 19:13:09 (last edited Dec 12th 2020, 19:13:43 by Stefan Gommans) Quote 
I guess we all know what's going to happen tomorrow

Option 1
Max has a poor start and both Mercedes cars just drive off to never be seen again

Option 2
Max keeps P1 at the start, but bottas and max pit early to cover or do the undercut, whilest hamilton goes long and wins the race by overtaking them with fresh tyres or he gets lucky with a vsc ot sc!

Option 3
Max's engine explodes halfway the race whilst still leading, then Hamilton, takes the win after bottas bottles it again

Option 4
Perez wins again, after being able to use a higher engine mode then everyone else due to his fresh engine
Peter Willmore
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Old post #693 posted Dec 12th 2020, 19:17:37 Quote 
you forgot option 5

Which is Max does something stupid , because he doesnt understand that the race is not won on lap 1 :)
Roy Mitchell
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Old post #694 posted Dec 12th 2020, 19:17:58 Quote 
I like option 4
Norbert Márfi
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Old post #695 posted Dec 13th 2020, 17:00:00 Quote 
The last race of the season is over, see you next year!

/forum/ViewTopic.asp?TopicId=29811
Claudio Lima
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Old post #696 posted Dec 13th 2020, 17:59:38 Quote 
Good-bye F1 in 2020. A poor season, in a terrible year.
Marcelo Ascencio
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Old post #697 posted Dec 13th 2020, 22:28:37 Quote 
Quote ( Stefan Gommans @ December 12th 2020,19:13:09 )

I guess we all know what's going to happen tomorrow

Option 1
Max has a poor start and both Mercedes cars just drive off to never be seen again

Option 2
Max keeps P1 at the start, but bottas and max pit early to cover or do the undercut, whilest hamilton goes long and wins the race by overtaking them with fresh tyres or he gets lucky with a vsc ot sc!

Option 3
Max's engine explodes halfway the race whilst still leading, then Hamilton, takes the win after bottas bottles it again

Option 4
Perez wins again, after being able to use a higher engine mode then everyone else due to his fresh engine


Well, Max drove away, never to be seen again.. Who could have seen that coming..
and it was also a boring race..
Cameron Halsall
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Old post #698 posted Dec 13th 2020, 23:28:06 Quote 
Man that was a bad race. Only thing of interest was 3rd in the constructors, and even that was an anticlimax. Apart from Monza, Istanbul, Sakir and possibly Silverstone, Imola and Mugello, every race was forgettable, and it's almost entirely because of DRS being so OP, and the tyre choices brought to each weekend means that unless there's an incident, the strategy is the same every time. Even then most of these races were affected by these issues to some extent. Good tyres is something most drivers have wanted for years and again Pirelli can't seem to make a tyre you can push hard for a significant portion of the race without blowing up. That's even without talking about all the other stuff that's happened off track which has only been possible because of little to no fans. If this was a normal season it would have been dropped very quickly or significantly neutered. At the very least Hamilton's legacy is significantly damaged and that's a real shame, he was someone I looked up to growing up purely because of his merits and his attitude to racing.

The media are already hyping up Red Bull for their chamionship chances. Sure Verstappen has a lot of talent and I'm sure he'll eventually win a championship, but the car is simply not where it should be to make a consistent challenge. I think they might have had a few more wins if things went their way, but this race was an example of how significant starting on pole or at least the front row can do for your weekend. They've been too far off the pace to be in with a chance. At least for next year Mercedes have an advantage and as much as I want the title fight to be close next season I don't think the signs are there. Also I think they've not treated Albon well, they simply haven't given him the chance to perform and that's partly down to the car, but partly because he's taken the brunt of the bad strategy choices. When Albon can put the car at the front he can do great things, Austria and Mugello showed that. So why Red Bull insist on playing musical chairs with the 2nd seat when it clearly hasn't worked baffles me. I'm not saying that there are drivers out of contract who don't deserve the seat more, certainly I would be happy if Perez got the drive, but Red Bull are just not competent enough to challenge Mercedes consistently right now unless changes are made.

Things to look forward to in 2021 - Alonso back at Renault/Alpine, Vettel at Aston Martin, Ricciardo at Mclaren with Norris and Mercedes engines, Dutch GP coming back... but yeah that's about it. It was nice to see more European races and/or some old favourite return, but while I remain looking foward to Zandvoort coming back the fact we're getting a race in Saudi Arabia shows where Liberty are taking F1 going forward. My reasons for continuing to follow this sport are wearing thin.
Petrus Taskila
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Old post #699 posted Dec 13th 2020, 23:39:46 Quote 
Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ December 13th 2020,23:28:06 )

it's almost entirely because of DRS being so OP

A fake mechanic for overtaking because the cars can't overtake without it anymore. Hoping the best for 2022.
Cameron Halsall
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Old post #700 posted Dec 13th 2020, 23:47:34 Quote 
Well they clearly could, it's not an excuse. Look how far back it is possible to make an overtake from now compared to before it was introduced. Hardly any passes are being made on the brakes. More overtaking does not mean better racing and clearly the FIA have forgotten this, pandering to the "new generation" who think it does.
Jay De Snoo
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Old post #701 posted Dec 14th 2020, 02:43:39 (last edited Dec 14th 2020, 02:44:21 by Jay De Snoo) Quote 
Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ December 13th 2020,23:28:06 )

Man that was a bad race. Only thing of interest was 3rd in the constructors, and even that was an anticlimax. Apart from Monza, Istanbul, Sakir and possibly Silverstone, Imola and Mugello, every race was forgettable, and it's almost entirely because of DRS being so OP, and the tyre choices brought to each weekend means that unless there's an incident, the strategy is the same every time. Even then most of these races were affected by these issues to some extent. Good tyres is something most drivers have wanted for years and again Pirelli can't seem to make a tyre you can push hard for a significant portion of the race without blowing up. That's even without talking about all the other stuff that's happened off track which has only been possible because of little to no fans. If this was a normal season it would have been dropped very quickly or significantly neutered. At the very least Hamilton's legacy is significantly damaged and that's a real shame, he was someone I looked up to growing up purely because of his merits and his attitude to racing.

The media are already hyping up Red Bull for their chamionship chances. Sure Verstappen has a lot of talent and I'm sure he'll eventually win a championship, but the car is simply not where it should be to make a consistent challenge. I think they might have had a few more wins if things went their way, but this race was an example of how significant starting on pole or at least the front row can do for your weekend. They've been too far off the pace to be in with a chance. At least for next year Mercedes have an advantage and as much as I want the title fight to be close next season I don't think the signs are there. Also I think they've not treated Albon well, they simply haven't given him the chance to perform and that's partly down to the car, but partly because he's taken the brunt of the bad strategy choices. When Albon can put the car at the front he can do great things, Austria and Mugello showed that. So why Red Bull insist on playing musical chairs with the 2nd seat when it clearly hasn't worked baffles me. I'm not saying that there are drivers out of contract who don't deserve the seat more, certainly I would be happy if Perez got the drive, but Red Bull are just not competent enough to challenge Mercedes consistently right now unless changes are made.

Things to look forward to in 2021 - Alonso back at Renault/Alpine, Vettel at Aston Martin, Ricciardo at Mclaren with Norris and Mercedes engines, Dutch GP coming back... but yeah that's about it. It was nice to see more European races and/or some old favourite return, but while I remain looking foward to Zandvoort coming back the fact we're getting a race in Saudi Arabia shows where Liberty are taking F1 going forward. My reasons for continuing to follow this sport are wearing thin.


TLDR for partsl ;) But yes, these aren't F1's most glorious days and that isn't just because of the sound of it's engines. I remember late 80's / early 90's (and everything after) where wheel to wheel racing was much more present. That has to do with aero & tyres to, parhaps refuelling as well as part of tactical play.
After that I learned to appreciate the tactical game, even after refill was taken away. But I fully reckon nowaydays F1 is just a rehash since 2006 or so.
(but I'm no fool, those roaring engines probably never come back as does anything 'unsafe'...)
Luke Frost
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Old post #702 posted Dec 14th 2020, 05:38:09 Quote 
Every year of f1 I've seen classic or present, has included great races & boring races. I haven't witnessed a season with as many entertaining races as 2020. Boring races always happen in f1. All it takes is the cars to Q & get off the line in their order of race pace and they'll all break away from each other. Obviously it'll happen sometimes.
Bradley Preen
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Old post #703 posted Dec 14th 2020, 16:19:51 Quote 
Poor Grosjean
Jonathan Beagles
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Old post #704 posted Dec 14th 2020, 20:52:15 Quote 
Quote ( Luke Frost @ December 14th 2020,05:38:09 )

All it takes is the cars to Q & get off the line in their order of race pace and they'll all break away from each other. Obviously it'll happen sometimes.


I've maintained for years that what ruins races is qualifying. Line the cars up in order of pace 1st to last and why is anyone surprised that they don't overtake each other!

Do appreciate that there are nuances to this of course and that what makes a car fast over one lap is not necessarily the same as what makes a car fast over a race distance...but there are certainly similarities. Would love to see them address that...but doubt it'll ever change tbh.
Stefan Gommans
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Old post #705 posted Dec 14th 2020, 21:19:38 Quote 
Ziggosport F1 yearclip

https://youtu.be/X4tG2XxoL-U

Practice your dutch xD
Luke Frost
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Old post #706 posted Dec 15th 2020, 03:54:27 Quote 
Quote ( Jonathan Beagles @ December 14th 2020,20:52:15 )

Quote ( Luke Frost @ December 14th 2020,05:38:09 )

All it takes is the cars to Q & get off the line in their order of race pace and they'll all break away from each other. Obviously it'll happen sometimes.

I've maintained for years that what ruins races is qualifying. Line the cars up in order of pace 1st to last and why is anyone surprised that they don't overtake each other!

Do appreciate that there are nuances to this of course and that what makes a car fast over one lap is not necessarily the same as what makes a car fast over a race distance...but there are certainly similarities. Would love to see them address that...but doubt it'll ever change tbh.


The argument against that is it would turn F1 into a circus, purely existing for entertainment and disregarding the hard work involved from all people in all teams to earn their rank on the grid. Although saying that, shit teams would not complain and might build tyre spikes on the sides to prevent being overtaken. :D
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Old post #707 posted Dec 15th 2020, 12:24:56 Quote 
Quote ( Jonathan Beagles @ December 14th 2020,20:52:15 )

I've maintained for years that what ruins races is qualifying. Line the cars up in order of pace 1st to last and why is anyone surprised that they don't overtake each other!

They cannot start 20 of them side by side and don't suggest the reverse qualifying garbage. That's like telling Barcelona that they have to start every game 1-0 down because they have the best player in the world.

F1 might be the only sport where people criticize you for doing your job well. You made a great car. How dare you!
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Old post #708 posted Dec 15th 2020, 17:18:17 Quote 
The Big Race:
https://twitter.com/f1visualized/status/1338550411071021066

Obviously it was the most exciting season since 2012 when McLaren was 3rd for the last time. :-)

I was really expecting this but more at the expenses of Albon than the Ferrari debacle with Seb at the top of the cake.

The Pink Mercedes almost spoiled it but... next year it's all Mercedes engines in the grid? And Renault. And... I'm not following next year yet. Don't want to forget this one so fast as some want. :-)
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Old post #709 posted Dec 15th 2020, 20:55:06 Quote 
Quote ( Luke Frost @ December 15th 2020,03:54:27 )

The argument against that is it would turn F1 into a circus, purely existing for entertainment and disregarding the hard work involved from all people in all teams to earn their rank on the grid. Although saying that, shit teams would not complain and might build tyre spikes on the sides to prevent being overtaken. :D


OR it would actually reward people who design cars that can overtake...? If you changed it up and forced teams to have to factor in more overtaking (however that was done) then the engineering focus would move to looking at how best to follow another car.

Also there are no points awarded for grid rank - only for what is done in a race.

Quote ( Sudeep Pednekar @ December 15th 2020,12:24:56 )

They cannot start 20 of them side by side and don't suggest the reverse qualifying garbage. That's like telling Barcelona that they have to start every game 1-0 down because they have the best player in the world.


Reverse qualifying isn't what I'd suggest in and of itself - but I definitely think they should look at the system for determining the grid order. It's all entirely hypothetical this conversation btw - as they will never change it again I fear, given how badly the last big quali change went!

Not sure a 1-0 advantage is a reasonable comparison to F1 - to use your analogy the football equivalent of qualifying is all 20 football teams in the Premier League doing e.g. a penalty shootout vs a neutral keeper the day before - and then the team that do the best start their Sunday match with 20 goals, the next best team with 19 goals etc etc. Madness clearly! Yet in F1 it's considered just the norm, because it's what's always been done.

Back in the day when they first did this, the cars were able to overtake FAR more easily and so lining them up in that order made sense, also from a safety point of view the difference in the cars was massive (look at results from the 1950s F1...regularly 2+ laps between 1st and 5th!). Neither of those factors are true nowadays.

In F1, I would equate scoring goals to overtaking - in the sense of the drama it creates and how fans react. With that in mind, you would want everyone to have the opportunity to showcase their overtaking ability.

As I say, it's all entirely hypothetical - but I do like to dream that there would be a way of making races more exciting than they are. Now that there is barely any unreliability, something is needed to make the races better than they often are.
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