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Topic: YAFR - yet another FOBY rant |
16 replies
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#1 posted Feb 27th 2020, 20:25:48
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To foBY or not to foBy, that is the question.
I stated in a thread a while back that
Quote ( Steve Branson @ October 31st 2019,00:54:19 ) Ii is hard to convince me that you can't compete without paying.
24% of the elite class and 55% of the master class are not supporters. I like that it is possible to rise to the top without supporter status
maybe I was wrong...
We can and have all agreed that "pay to win" is bad for the user base
but I think we have a "pay a third party to win" which is bad for GPRO as well
Point 1: The developers have created an opportunity for 3rd parties to charge for tools and formulas that, while not perfect, help new players understand the game.
I think this is the worst case scenario for any game developer. If it was a game I managed, it would cause me to lose a lot of sleep.
Point 2: The complexity of this game lies somewhere near that of chess. It is definately more complicated than most board games and card games. Is is my belief that with a complete understanding of the game mechanics it would STILL be very hard do dominate in this game. Imagine sitting in front of a chess board (or any game) for the first time and being told you have to find out what the pieces do by yourself?
Point 3: Financial management and Strategic planning are the areas that seperate the winners from the rest of us. Every race, every season and every cycle we need to make several choices based on our goals and possibly adapt those choices based on our assessment of what strategies the other 39 managers might have.
Therefor IMHO: Our strategies are what make or break us and hiding game mechanic details only serve to decimate the retention rates of new registrants.
I, for one, would rather support GPRO than some other site. How about you?
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#2 posted Feb 27th 2020, 20:38:31
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I don't understand what any of this has to do with FOBY. Part of the game is learning the game and making game mechanics freely available would mean you lose that part of the game.
Digging at the mechanics is one of my favorite things about this game. Gathering data, testing hypotheses, trying to crack the code. If this wasn't a FOBY game but just a complex one I'd have quit.
Also, those tools you mentioned? None of them have it all exactly right. None know the mechanics, some are closer than others, but they are all lacking at some point. You could put your money in them, but would that make you better at the game? I don't think so.
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#3 posted Feb 27th 2020, 20:57:26
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Quote ( Thijs Rieken @ February 27th 2020,20:38:31 )
I don't understand what any of this has to do with FOBY. Part of the game is learning the game and making game mechanics freely available would mean you lose that part of the game. Exactly. Verbatim.
Quote ( Thijs Rieken @ February 27th 2020,20:38:31 ) Digging at the mechanics is one of my favorite things about this game. Gathering data, testing hypotheses, trying to crack the code. If this wasn't a FOBY game but just a complex one I'd have quit. Research is interesting in the game. That's why I'm playing.
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#4 posted Feb 27th 2020, 21:23:54
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Quote ( Steve Branson @ February 27th 2020,20:25:48 ) but I think we have a "pay a third party to win" which is bad for GPRO as well
False.
Ultimately GPRO can't control what happens outside of this site, but it's entirely possible to succeed in this game without using any third-party tools. I can tell you that I don't use any such tools and I suspect that most other managers in elite don't either. That's not a coincidence.
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#5 posted Feb 27th 2020, 21:36:38
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i think you are mistaken something here.....
1) yes there are tools and yes for some you have to pay if you wanna use them but there are enough Tools around that you can get for free (like GPRO GO) or other tools which are free.
2) when you think a tool helps you to understand this game, good luck mate, you might get to Pro and maybe even Master (which i doubt) but you will not get into Elite because you don't understand this game due to a tool you use to help you with your setup but do you understand WHY you lose despite having the best setup?..... don't think so
and therefor if you wanna understand this game you have to FOBY or ask teammates and as Thijs Rieken already said, its fun to do some FOBY ...That is the difference between other games, "the devil is hidden in the detail"
but when you think you can get to the top with only a tool that helps you with the setup, again good luck (but you won't get far)
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#6 posted Feb 27th 2020, 21:56:01
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The best manager among the ones I know runs his data from pen and paper. GPRO is not about tools nor paying to win.
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The big problem is that there are calculators.
Even worse is that they are inaccurate.
... and asking for money?
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#8 posted Feb 27th 2020, 23:12:25
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Even I had to thumbs up all the replies so far. I agree with all of you on the major points.
To clarify, I don't trust the tools either, and the the best tool I have (other than the one I was born with) is my open office spreadsheet. The info I think should be available will not get anyone to the top of the heap, but rather it would help get the first timers off the basement floor.
For example:
What I mean by open game mechanics is something like: X relies on (A,B,D,R,Y,Z)
(letting us know the other 70+ variables are irrelevant to this calc)
whereas the full formula, which might look like: X = 0.5R * (2R * A + ((Z - Y) * B) + ((2R * Y - 5R * A + 4R * Z - D) * B^2) + ((-Y + 3R * A - 3R * Z + D) * B^3))
is for the coders eyes only and what we try to estimate.
Just for fun: That is a real formula by the way and I am offering a 5 supporter credit prize to the first person who can name it.
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#9 posted Feb 28th 2020, 00:46:30
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Quote ( Steve Branson @ February 27th 2020,23:12:25 ) X = 0.5R * (2R * A + ((Z - Y) * B) + ((2R * Y - 5R * A + 4R * Z - D) * B^2) + ((-Y + 3R * A - 3R * Z + D) * B^3))
is for the coders eyes only and what we try to estimate.
Just for fun: That is a real formula by the way and I am offering a 5 supporter credit prize to the first person who can name it.
That's the equation I use when deciding how much money to spend at Valentines day.
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#10 posted Feb 28th 2020, 00:56:54
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Quote ( Steve Branson @ February 27th 2020,20:25:48 ) Our strategies are what make or break us and hiding game mechanic details only serve to decimate the retention rates of new registrants.
The hiding of game mechanics and the desire to solve them with like-minded nerds is the about only reason I started, and continue to play, this game. I would be profoundly bored if it were all uncovered by administration.
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#11 posted Feb 28th 2020, 00:59:12
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Quote ( Steve Branson @ February 27th 2020,23:12:25 ) X = 0.5R * (2R * A + ((Z - Y) * B) + ((2R * Y - 5R * A + 4R * Z - D) * B^2) + ((-Y + 3R * A - 3R * Z + D) * B^3))
Pretty sure this is the formula to work out how many actual women play GPRO...
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#12 posted Feb 28th 2020, 01:09:28
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You need a formula for that??? Surely just counting on your fingers would do.
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#13 posted Feb 28th 2020, 03:15:43
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Quote ( Jonathan Beagles @ February 28th 2020,00:59:12 ) Quote ( Steve Branson @ February 27th 2020,23:12:25
Pretty sure this is the formula to work out how many actual women play GPRO...
Nonsense. Internet is the place where men are men, women are actually men and children are FBI agents.
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#14 posted Feb 28th 2020, 11:40:06
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Quote ( Steve Branson @ February 27th 2020,23:12:25 ) whereas the full formula, which might look like: X = 0.5R * (2R * A + ((Z - Y) * B) + ((2R * Y - 5R * A + 4R * Z - D) * B^2) + ((-Y + 3R * A - 3R * Z + D) * B^3))
This is why GPRO will only ever capture 10% of its possible market share. Do you think the average F1 fan has a clue what that means? Is knowing that formula what makes you a good manager? A good manager makes the right choice without having all of the available information, at least in the real world...
Anyway, I'll take my 5 credits this weekend unless someone beats me to it
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#15 posted Feb 28th 2020, 12:36:30
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I work with paper, pencil, abacus. I'll calculate everything. From truncated numbers - exactly.
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#16 posted Feb 28th 2020, 12:40:24
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Well, I am playing GPRO for 5 months, my most complicated formula is something like (A+B)/C and I am just LOVING the game. Coming to Amateur this season by my own, with just observation and the great scientific method of "trying and error" since my team don't even said "Hi" when I joined them...
One time I tried a third party calculator. I was SO lost in the numbers generated by the App that I though "What the...". From that, I knew I would learn nothing by using this kind of program so I went back to my good old spreadsheet (at least I can fool my boss when he sees the Excel on the screen :D. Just kidding boss, I love you!)
Of course, if you want an audience base like World of Warcraft and League of Legends games you can try making an easy and straight forward mechanics with public number, but good luck with the 12 years old kids flooding the groups and raging everywhere...
My point is: I am a noob and I am loving the FOBY mechanics.
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#17 posted Mar 19th 2020, 16:30:43
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Quote ( Chris Shaw @ February 28th 2020,11:40:06 ) Quote ( Steve Branson @ February 27th 2020,23:12:25 )
whereas the full formula, which might look like: X = 0.5R * (2R * A + ((Z - Y) * B) + ((2R * Y - 5R * A + 4R * Z - D) * B^2) + ((-Y + 3R * A - 3R * Z + D) * B^3))
This is why GPRO will only ever capture 10% of its possible market share. Do you think the average F1 fan has a clue what that means? Is knowing that formula what makes you a good manager? A good manager makes the right choice without having all of the available information, at least in the real world...
Anyway, I'll take my 5 credits this weekend unless someone beats me to it
You don't need to know that formula, though, you just need to have some kind of idea about the patterns of gameplay, results, and specifics.
If you understand the fundamentals, you can easily apply them to everything else and come up with answers that help.
Right now, I'm working on trying to figure out the risk of driver mistakes and how it's related to CT, O/T, Defense, and driver concentration, talent, experience.
I know I won't be able to come up with a complex formula to calculate my strategy, but I can come up with a general concept.
Sure, that makes me more like Shelby than Newey, but that's fine by me. I don't come here to work with numbers, I come here to use my "powers of deduction".
And that is why I actually love FOBY. There's so much in the game that you can figure out through careful observation.
Oh, and the formula...it's how much cake you need to bake to get through quarantine. The answer, of course, is all the cake.
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