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Topic: Nerf Yokomamas hard |
48 replies
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#31 posted Jul 5th 2020, 18:23:40 (last edited Jul 5th 2020, 18:24:20 by Josh Clark)
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Quote ( Jay De Snoo @ July 5th 2020,18:10:06 ) (it just makes Pro more expensive than it already was while it's still the most cost efficient tyre).
This is my main appreciation for Yoko at the moment. Pro is already a very unbalanced tier when comparing the realistic income of a non-promotion season to the realistic improvement and upkeep of the car required to achieve that income. Far more often than not the expenditures to do so drastically overwhelm the income. Adding costs to tyres in this situation when they're not entirely all that important just worsens the matter.
I was in favour of a Yoko price raise last season, but considering that nothing seems too different after a lot of tyre cost changes (which are certainly appreciated either way), I don't think costs were the problem. There's just simply no competition for Yoko because tyres are no longer as impactful to the package as they were before the PHA matching update. Hence small differences like the ones between Yoko and Dunno seem almost irrelevant.
And as DD mentioned, even Conti have shown that it just isn't enough to rely on a tyre to compete, as many with decent cars on Yoko and even Dunno have outpaced the OBP tyres this season.
They certainly make a difference, but in the grand scheme of things I think a lot of people are simply extremely aware of how much more impactful it is to spend more money on the car and less on the tyres. Hence why the cheapest, more balanced tyre is most common. It's not Yoko's fault. Making tyres more expensive just upsets the financial disparity between Ama, Pro and Master even more.
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Quote ( Josh Clark @ July 5th 2020,18:23:40 ) And as DD mentioned, even Conti have shown that it just isn't enough to rely on a tyre to compete, as many with decent cars on Yoko and even Dunno have outpaced the OBP tyres this season.
They certainly make a difference, but in the grand scheme of things I think a lot of people are simply extremely aware of how much more impactful it is to spend more money on the car and less on the tyres. Hence why the cheapest, more balanced tyre is most common. It's not Yoko's fault. Making tyres more expensive just upsets the financial disparity between Ama, Pro and Master even more.
This. I realise that my struggles this season despite choosing a more expensive tyre could be due to the fact that I have not paid proper attention to the PHA, especially since I was broke at the start of the season and have faced a massive struggle just to stay reasonably competitive.
Therefore, the idea that my choice of a more expensive tyre could somewhat compensate for my inability to keep my package at its current level might have been a false assumption on my part, and therefore my "problem" with the Yokos could be simply due to me being out-managed by PHA-thinking managers on cheaper tyres.
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Quote ( Roland Jakobsson @ July 5th 2020,19:56:13 ) therefore my "problem" with the Yokos could be simply due to me being out-managed by PHA-thinking managers on cheaper tyres.
+1
Exact PHA matching for every race is not for the faint-hearted and needs some major data/statistical and serious formulaic spreadsheet abilities to get it right.
I agree that a season pha matching/promotion plan is a complicated algorithm to write but if you start in Pro and are part of a large family of teams then the time learning curve is /should be reduced.
Groups up to Pro are relatively easy, it is when you advance to Master that a managers /teams mettle is tested :)
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The weather in the season was bad for your Dunnolop (and Avon / Hancock and Michelin in the elite). It was an unbalanced season that favored Brigerock / Conti in the elite. Conti / Yoko at Master and Pro.
But the strength of the tires, the costs of the 5 PRO / MASTER tires are at the best level ever.
Avon, Yoko, Dunno, Conti, Bady, all at the moment are in agreement with their value.
Avon weakest/cheaper of the 5, waiting for his 2-4 chance in the cold.
Bady, conti, dominant (and most expensive) in certain conditions, but inadequate in other situations.
Dunno, Yoko, more balanced for all conditions, except for a season without races "in the 21-27º range" (completely abnormal). Dominant dunno in the cold without BADY. YOKO dominant in the heat without the presence of CONTI...
If 8-9 races of the season were at 15-25º, your dunnolop would have a good command in your group, but remember that there is a driver, and a car (with PHA) to complete your set, and make you competitive when the weather doesn't help.
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Quote ( Rogerio Mandler @ July 7th 2020,01:58:11 ) The weather in the season was bad for your Dunnolop (and Avon / Hancock and Michelin in the elite). It was an unbalanced season that favored Brigerock / Conti in the elite. Conti / Yoko at Master and Pro.
Fail to understand why you are posting about Elite when OP has specifically only mentioned Pro and Master?
Quote ( Roland Jakobsson @ July 4th 2020,20:13:40 ) Total waste of money and it feels like Yoko is the Pro (and even Master)
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Quote ( Mike Bennett @ July 7th 2020,00:08:21 ) Groups up to Pro are relatively easy
Fail to understand why you’re posting about rookie/amateur when OP has specifically only mentioned Pro and Master?
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Quote ( Max Watson @ July 7th 2020,10:02:14 ) Fail to understand why you’re posting
Fail to understand why you are posting about understanding posting when the original posting was posting about Yokomamas?
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Fail to understand yours respectives fails 😅
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Fail to have enough energy to read whole thread so here's what I say. I also went dunno this season, and it also hurt a lot that there was only 1 race where they had a decent advantage.
However, I learned a lesson: if everyone else has picked one tyre, just pick the same. Beat them with your car and driver, do not roll the dice on weather if you have the option to be safe against 30 players.
I was blind but now I see.
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Exactly @Chris Shaw (P25) , just do the same thing in Pro as in Ama, there's only a handful of other tyres anyway
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Quote ( Chris Shaw @ July 7th 2020,13:43:05 ) I was blind but now I see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OWWd6X53xw
Lyrics
what you get and what you see
things that don't come easily
feeling happy in my vein
icicles within my brain
(cocain)
something blowing in my head
Winter's ice, it soon will spread
Death would freeze my very soul
makes me happy makes me cold
my eyes are blind but i can see
the snowflakes glistin on the tree
The sun no longer sets me free
I feel the snowflakes freezing me
let the winter sun shine on
let me feel the frost of dawn
fill my dreams with flakes of snow
soon I'll feel the chilling glow
right!
don't you think i know what i'm doing
don't tell me that it's doing me wrong
you're the one who's really the loser
this is where I feel I belong
crystal world with winter flowers
turns my days to frozen hours
lying snowblind in the sun
will my ice age ever come
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Great insight Chris, I will do that from now on; but I am glad I tried Badyears this time around, just for the experience.
and I was thinking it was a reference to "Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound" but I like Andrews choice better.
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Speaking at the Pro level...
Yoko's are in general the safe bet as even if another tire is better for a particular race, Yoko's are usually the second best tire. It's got moderate everything for a moderate price. It's like a getting a cheeseburger at a restaurant - it's unlikely to be the best thing on the menu, but you can have high confidence it's not going to ruin your evening either.
The other tires tend to be focused on doing well in certain conditions. Sometimes you're far and a away the #1 tire in a race, other times you're just going to struggle.
But if you only need to do exceptionally well in 2 races to retain, the situational tires of special magnificence can be your ticket.
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Quote ( Athol Kay @ July 7th 2020,19:15:19 ) The other tires tend to be focused on doing well in certain conditions. Sometimes you're far and a away the #1 tire in a race, other times you're just going to struggle.
Is that because of the nature of those tyres or is it only that way because of how managers tend to use them?
I'd hold out opinions about other tyres until you have tried them, in much the same way the OP should hold out his opinion of yokos.
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Quote ( George Slater @ July 7th 2020,19:49:28 ) Is that because of the nature of those tyres or is it only that way because of how managers tend to use them?
For the extreme tires (hancock and conti) you are going to struggle in certain situations.
But I agree with the point you are making, a lot of times its more about how managers are using them than what the tire is capable of.
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Quote ( Mike Bennett @ July 7th 2020,02:21:45 ) Fail to understand why you are posting about Elite when OP has specifically only mentioned Pro and Master?
You can respond exclusively to Jakobsson's group. I prefer to give the overview. Someone from the elite might think that Hancock / Michelin is very expensive, because this season was very bad for them, especially when compared to Brigerock / Conti (Let's change Brigerock / Conti because of this season).
Tire suppliers have 3 levels. Any discussion of tire values / quality must take into account all levels.
Feel free to comment specifically on PRO only (or only about this season). I prefer to comment on all possible choices. I prefer to comment on the balance of prices / qualities for more seasons.
I'm sure the few who got Hancock and Michelin from the master / Pro must have also regretted it.
If anyone chose Brigerock at Pro / Master, it was also fine. Better to have chosen Conti than Brigerock. In Master / Pro.
Quote ( Mike Bennett @ July 7th 2020,00:08:21 ) I agree that a season pha matching/promotion plan is a complicated algorithm to write but if you start in Pro and are part of a large family of teams then the time learning curve is /should be reduced.
In the same way that I extended the discussion to all groups with a choice of tire, you extended it to PHA. And I understood why.
The broad view is always better than the specific view of a specific season or group.
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Quote ( George Slater @ July 7th 2020,19:49:28 ) Quote ( Athol Kay @ July 7th 2020,19:15:19 )
The other tires tend to be focused on doing well in certain conditions. Sometimes you're far and a away the #1 tire in a race, other times you're just going to struggle.
Is that because of the nature of those tyres or is it only that way because of how managers tend to use them?
I'd hold out opinions about other tyres until you have tried them, in much the same way the OP should hold out his opinion of yokos.
It is tedious work, and I suspect not done by many, but sifting through prominent managers season histories reveals a huge amount of information about tires.
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Quote ( Roland Jakobsson @ July 4th 2020,20:13:40 ) when 25 managers of 40 in pretty much every Pro group pick them
Have you considered the possibility that Yoko might actually not be "better" than other tyres.
The majority of managers in every group do actually retain (22), some (15) relegate and minority (3) promote.
Maybe they don't think Yoko's would be better but instead think that they might be good enough for their respective goals.
It's not just about tyres, it's about the "whole package", tyres being just a part of it.
From a performance point of view, neither of the Dunno users in your group are in relegation spot currently, but there are many (11) Yoko users relegating there.
Quote ( Roland Jakobsson @ July 4th 2020,20:13:40 ) and you will look like a fool (like me) for picking anything else.
I think that a choice like yours has worked for some
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