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Author Topic: Hamilton vs Schumacher - Which One? 109 replies
Sudeep Pednekar
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Old post #91 posted Oct 15th 2020, 16:26:47 Quote 
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ October 15th 2020,16:21:12 )

Schumacher didn't have to save his engine for the next race. Without that rule, Hamilton's average win margin would surely be higher.


It would probably be, but I'm not saying that Schumacher had a more dominant car.
I'm just pointing these things out because people are disillusioned by the fact that Michael had it more difficult and his cars were somehow worse.
Both had dominant cars & deserve more or less equal praise.
Who is better can be down to opinion or bias, whatever.
But saying that Hamilton has won so many just because of the car is absolute bollocks.
The best driver gets to be in the best car, and like Toto said if the other drivers think that they're better than Hamilton somehow & he's only winning because of the best car then they should ask themselves why they haven't replaced Hamilton in that seat. Because they ARE NOT better.
Ankit Jakhar
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Old post #92 posted Oct 15th 2020, 17:02:14 Quote 
Quote ( Sudeep Pednekar @ October 15th 2020,16:20:05 )

What is this machinery gap?

look at best times of each sector of a specific sector with low fuel and new softest compounded that is your time ... if u want to remove driver variable - there are some lap time simulations that do everything ideal and time to time some of these telemetry data comparisons is released ... have a look at merc. domination.

Quote ( Sudeep Pednekar @ October 15th 2020,16:20:05 )


and wtf does cheating ferrari not included mean? Ferrari weren't stripped off their 17-19 points. They were still very competitive.

the only time when fearrai was clear threat to merc. was when they were fooling the fuel pressure injector sensor... everyone knows that... and everyone knows why FIA didn't penalize them.

Quote ( Sudeep Pednekar @ October 15th 2020,16:20:05 )


Hamilton doesn't have a "wingman". It's another thing that Bottas cannot match Hamilton when it comes to a Sunday, but there is no agreement or contract that says Bottas is number 2. He's always allowed to compete. So much so that even in Hungary 2017, Hamilton gave up a podium back to Bottas just because of an agreement when it was obvious that Bottas was never going to compete with Vettel for the WDC.

lol really how out of those little and rare chances when bottas is ahead of Lewis u listen to this statement *Valteri it's James* , and if bottas isn't 2nd in wdc how often these statements come by saying to save Lewis from pseudo attack at WDC - pretty much every time.
saying bottas is not no 2 is the joke of the century lol
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Old post #93 posted Oct 15th 2020, 17:17:57 (last edited Oct 15th 2020, 17:19:12 by Alessandro Casagrande) Quote 
Quote ( Sudeep Pednekar @ October 15th 2020,16:26:47 )

Because they ARE NOT better.


There is no proof of this.

Anyway, you can just see how dominant were LH cars by checking who was his main competitor during the seasons... Quite often the 2nd was his own teammate on the same car and both together had a dominant season for the team. I don't understand how one can say that Mercedes has been as dominant as Ferrari in the Schumacher's era.

Quote ( Ankit Jakhar @ October 15th 2020,17:02:14 )

and everyone knows why FIA didn't penalize them.


Why?
Daniel Douglas
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Old post #94 posted Oct 15th 2020, 17:53:09 Quote 
Quote ( Alessandro Casagrande @ October 15th 2020,17:17:57 )

Why?


Ferrari international assistance
Juan Diego Milán
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Old post #95 posted Oct 15th 2020, 17:56:35 Quote 
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ October 15th 2020,16:21:12 )

Schumacher didn't have to save his engine for the next race. Without that rule, Hamilton's average win margin would surely be higher.

As for Schumacher's praised consistency - this was much easier to do in his days because of traction control. Nowadays drivers have to do it without, and with engines that have way more torque in the low RPM range. And on less consistent tyres. So I don't see a good comparison here either.

I guess the best comparison between drivers is to take their absolute numbers (wins, poles etc.) and divide by the number of races entered. Hamilton is well ahead of Schumacher in this regard (34.9% races won vs. 29.5%). Some will argue we should not count Schumacher's Mercedes years, in which case they would be virtually tied here too (on a similar level to Clark, but well behind Fangio and Ascari).

My own answer to the question in the poll is Hamilton, because he's competed against better team mates, won at least one race in every car he's driven, and because his qualifying sessions are some of the best racecraft I have ever seen. But it is only a matter of opinion.


+1... fully agree with you!
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Old post #96 posted Oct 15th 2020, 17:59:16 Quote 
Quote ( Daniel Douglas @ October 15th 2020,17:53:09 )

Ferrari international assistance


Explain it better, please.
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Old post #97 posted Oct 15th 2020, 18:08:53 (last edited Oct 15th 2020, 18:09:20 by Daniel Douglas) Quote 
Quote ( Alessandro Casagrande @ October 15th 2020,17:59:16 )

Explain it better, please



Lets fast forward

Me: blah blah blah fia favors ferrari
you: yada yada yada *gets upset*
me: blah blah look at history
you: *goes on a rant about how ferrari is the greatest thing ever*
me: idiot
you: down thumb all posts and continue to spew BS


OK, thanks for the quick conversation.... lets move on.
Sudeep Pednekar
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Old post #98 posted Oct 15th 2020, 18:12:15 Quote 
Quote ( Ankit Jakhar @ October 15th 2020,17:02:14 )

look at best times of each sector of a specific sector with low fuel and new softest compounded that is your time ... if u want to remove driver variable - there are some lap time simulations that do everything ideal and time to time some of these telemetry data comparisons is released ... have a look at merc. domination.


The qualifying times are kind of irrelevant to race pace, Mercedes never use their highest engine mode in the race. It cannot be used as an indicator of dominance.


Quote ( Ankit Jakhar @ October 15th 2020,17:02:14 )

the only time when fearrai was clear threat to merc. was when they were fooling the fuel pressure injector sensor... everyone knows that... and everyone knows why FIA didn't penalize them.


again irrelevant, it's only affected them this season. They gave tough competition in 17-18, and were competitive in 19.


Quote ( Ankit Jakhar @ October 15th 2020,17:02:14 )

lol really how out of those little and rare chances when bottas is ahead of Lewis u listen to this statement *Valteri it's James* , and if bottas isn't 2nd in wdc how often these statements come by saying to save Lewis from pseudo attack at WDC - pretty much every time.
saying bottas is not no 2 is the joke of the century lol


Cold, hard facts-he isn't a number 2. James has only asked Bottas to comply twice, afaik. Once in Russia because they wanted to protect Hamilton(tyre issue) from Seb and once in Germany because they wanted to save the 1-2, not because they were favoring Hamilton.
So yeah twice in 3 and a half seasons isn't a lot. But you're deluded af so there isn't any hope for you.
Alessandro Casagrande
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Old post #99 posted Oct 15th 2020, 18:26:29 Quote 
Quote ( Daniel Douglas @ October 15th 2020,18:08:53 )

Quote ( Alessandro Casagrande @ October 15th 2020,17:59:16 )

Explain it better, please


Lets fast forward

Me: blah blah blah fia favors ferrari
you: yada yada yada *gets upset*
me: blah blah look at history
you: *goes on a rant about how ferrari is the greatest thing ever*
me: idiot
you: down thumb all posts and continue to spew BS


OK, thanks for the quick conversation.... lets move on.


You serious? I suppose it's your habit to insult and place thumbs down around if you believe others would do the same, but you targeted the wrong guy. Take my thumb up and smile.
Sudeep Pednekar
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Old post #100 posted Oct 15th 2020, 18:30:49 Quote 
Quote ( Alessandro Casagrande @ October 15th 2020,17:17:57 )

There is no proof of this.

Anyway, you can just see how dominant were LH cars by checking who was his main competitor during the seasons... Quite often the 2nd was his own teammate on the same car and both together had a dominant season for the team. I don't understand how one can say that Mercedes has been as dominant as Ferrari in the Schumacher's era.



There is no proof? Why is the best team on the grid not hiring driver which are supposedly better than the driver they have? Makes sense to you?

Who was Michael's main competitor in his winning seasons? He only had competition with other drivers in 95, 00 & 03.
Hamilton had competition in 08, 14, 17, 18. I did not even include 15 in that.

Who was the last driver to win the WDC when the team did not win the Constructors?
HAMILTON in 08.


Luke Frost
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Old post #101 posted Oct 15th 2020, 18:36:36 Quote 
Quote ( Sudeep Pednekar @ October 15th 2020,16:20:05 )

Hamilton doesn't have a "wingman". It's another thing that Bottas cannot match Hamilton when it comes to a Sunday, but there is no agreement or contract that says Bottas is number 2.


"Valteri, it's James..."


Yes, when a team mate is slower, they become a wing man. Bottachello is always slower.
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Old post #102 posted Oct 15th 2020, 18:38:21 Quote 
Quote ( Alessandro Casagrande @ October 15th 2020,18:26:29 )

You serious? I suppose it's your habit to insult and place thumbs down around if you believe others would do the same, but you targeted the wrong guy. Take my thumb up and smile.


Nah, its just the stock standard reaction from Ferrari fans and it just isn't worth repeating
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Old post #103 posted Oct 15th 2020, 18:51:43 (last edited Oct 15th 2020, 18:55:25 by Alessandro Casagrande) Quote 
Quote ( Sudeep Pednekar @ October 15th 2020,18:30:49 )

There is no proof? Why is the best team on the grid not hiring driver which are supposedly better than the driver they have? Makes sense to you?


The key word is "supposedly". But how do you know if you don't see them in the same car?


Quote ( Sudeep Pednekar @ October 15th 2020,18:30:49 )

Who was the last driver to win the WDC when the team did not win the Constructors?
HAMILTON in 08.


Could hardly be Schumacher...

Quote ( Daniel Douglas @ October 15th 2020,18:38:21 )

Nah, its just the stock standard reaction from Ferrari fans and it just isn't worth repeating


And certainly yours is not a fan's view, right?

Anyway, I thought the thread was Schumacher or Hamilton, not Ferrari or Mercedes.
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Old post #104 posted Oct 15th 2020, 18:53:06 Quote 

Quote ( Alessandro Casagrande @ October 15th 2020,18:51:43 )

But how do you know if you don't see them in the same car?


Nice backwards logic, but you somehow know they are better, eh?

Also good job not replying to the relevant bit.
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Old post #105 posted Oct 15th 2020, 19:47:29 (last edited Oct 15th 2020, 19:48:01 by Alessandro Casagrande) Quote 
Quote ( Sudeep Pednekar @ October 15th 2020,18:53:06 )

Also good job not replying to the relevant bit.


Which bit? Your second paragraph you mean? I don't agree but simply I need some time to go through data to answer... Time that I don't have right now.

But if you want to say that team mates are real competitors for Lewis, ok... you are right. If you think that Bottas is a driver who can really compete with Lewis constantly and not only occasionally, ok.
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Old post #106 posted Oct 15th 2020, 19:55:12 (last edited Oct 15th 2020, 19:55:31 by Sudeep Pednekar) Quote 
At least he can compete occasionally. Rosberg would compete more.
Schumacher had absolute trash for team mates. Hamilton has had 3 WDCs as teammates.
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Old post #107 posted Oct 15th 2020, 20:13:23 Quote 

Umm let's see how i post this without been hated to death, first of all plz stop the hamilton wins
because of his car debate, love him or hate him he is clearly by a mile better driver than anyone
else in the grid at the moment, is he on par with Michael level? HELL NO! not even close!, don't get me wrong i thought ever since hamilton debut that he was gonna be better than Alonso and vettel
i never got caught up in those to hyped up debuts but i saw the raw talent in lewis since day one and knew he was gonna be a champion material driver, just don't on par of michael or other greats of the history in F1(tough he can still change it), but to me Hamilton is a specialist driver you can count there are some races that he will always win but that's it, most of his wins are in the same tracks, he's a FT driver.

ALL that aside, many folks here seems to be home country biased (english drivers) and others seems to be confusing been the FASTEST with been the GREATEST and no plz just no, senna was the fastest hands down that's undeniable but he was definitely not the greatest i mean clearly Prost wasn't as fast as he was and still he humiliated senna even tough senna fans seems to forget that fact and tend to remember senna as if he was driving a corolla beating everyone because he was the greatest!!, no face it that was not, he was in the best car for many years he did not drive a corlla and No 2 even tough prost was slower than him he was more successful both driving as teammates nonetheless.

Another point is that peaople forget that before ferrari's dominance they were literally trash and the man who helped rebuild ferrari's glory was michael even though haters doesn't giving the credit.

Also c'mmon he won his first titles back to back with FREAKING BENETTON!! call him a cheater or wathever you like but he did it TWICE! and benetton was not the fastest car on the grid, many peaplo buy the media bias against Benetton, but Williams back then was a powerhouse team and we all know that in any sport, any country, anywhere in this world those powerhouse team get the media bias and the federation back-up specially against a smaller underdog team that no one is going to defend.

Last but not least to me and that's just mi personal opinion the best Overall driver of all time is Michael, lightning speed he's younger years, strategist and reliable he's older ones, master during rainy races and he could perform top notch in any style of circuit.

PS: 1Michael, 2Prost, 3Senna, 4Sir Jackie,5 G. Hill(only triple crown winner)
Bonus: Juan Manuel Fangio the first great
Sudeep Pednekar
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Old post #108 posted Oct 15th 2020, 20:21:16 (last edited Oct 15th 2020, 20:21:36 by Sudeep Pednekar) Quote 
The above post is so delusional I cannot be bothered breaking it down to point out everything that is wrong with it.
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Old post #109 posted Oct 15th 2020, 21:05:44 Quote 
Quote ( Sudeep Pednekar @ October 15th 2020,19:55:12 )

Schumacher had absolute trash for team mates. Hamilton has had 3 WDCs as teammates.


Well, Irvine and Massa went very close to become World Champions.

By the way, the point is exactly the competition from other cars. IMHO denying that Mercedes dominated the last seven seasons (including this) is denying the reality.

But this doesn't mean I don't consider Hamilton a superb driver. He rarely had to fight wheel to wheel but from what I remember I rarely seen him losing a fight on pure driving skill.
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Old post #110 posted Oct 16th 2020, 03:13:35 Quote 
Quote ( Reymon Vicioso @ October 15th 2020,20:13:23 )

but to me Hamilton is a specialist driver you can count there are some races that he will always win but that's it, most of his wins are in the same tracks, he's a FT driver.


Let me see... "Hamilton holds the record for most wins at different Grands Prix (26) and most wins at different circuits (27)"

Lewis & Michael have the same number of victories, so... FT driver? really?

Lewis is awsome since his 1st race, he had a lot of mistakes when he was in Mclaren and now he is much stronger. Sadly we can't see it cuz Mercedes is that dominating.

This is a worthless topic, i mean, here some ppl will choose Lewis, others will choose michael, and we have millions of reasons to pick one of them but that won't change anything...


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