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Topic: Names and genders |
149 replies
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Quote ( Constantin Heller @ May 8th 2021,20:39:28 ) Honestly I don't even get why GPRO requires our real names anyway. No other game I've ever seen does this. And it's not like it's checked on registration. GPRO isn't a social network,
I know a big huge "gaming platform" that claims to be a social network but it's just a huge smart advertising scam, that requires real names and even demands ID copies of anyone around the world. I mean, fool enough to even use this service already labeled by government bodies as something like "unreliable bunch irresponsible kids" to "cyber gangsters".
Hint: It's the very first site you "visit" when you login on GPRO.
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Not willing to discuss the issue as it's a topic I only go into with people IRL when I feel that they are open to listening.
But I fully support Constantin about adding options to the gender question. Hiding the choice should also be available.
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Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ May 8th 2021,22:36:40 ) Regards the gender question, I realize we Dutch are quite liberal and progressive on these sort of topics,
Indeed. I just had a colleague changing her name to his name with no fuss and all legal and official with no need to resort to any surgery.
But, back in 99, all services provided the Other gender option. Is this game like... 1899?
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Quote ( Jukka Sireni @ May 8th 2021,21:47:15 ) I really prefer having Jukka Sireni in the champions list instead of Googol or Jalkahiki (foot sweat)
I'm gonna put this in my quotebook. Wise words, very wise words!
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Quote ( Michael Galler @ May 9th 2021,02:32:56 ) FYI: If I didn't have to use my real name, I wouldn't
I'd use a boys name
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Quote ( Keri Lovell @ May 9th 2021,09:33:05 )
I'd use a boys name
Aw but I think your name is quite Lovelly
Bet you've never heard that one
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As a transgender person I would like to add to discussion that option of changing my deadname in my seasons before would be great. Because everytime I look into my driver's profile, I see it. :(
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Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ May 8th 2021,21:08:32 ) You can't change your biological sex either. Gender is merely the social reprocussions of such. It doesn't make you invalid as a human being for believing you were born into the wrong body, you just have a mental illness that needs medical attention, not validation by pseudoscience.
That's your opinion and questioning the majority of modern science makes you as respectable as antivacciners and flatearthers. So to whom it may concern, f you.
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Keeble changed his first name in GPRO, I don't see why Nikola can't.
In cases like this, I can't see a single person being bothered about it. Well, maybe two people, but that's a pretty good majority.
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The way I see it, ignoring all the people who genuinely don't care, the two sides are "extremely offended that some people want to change their name or have more gender options" and "just wants to be allowed to live as who they are".
It's one really small change in the case of gender options and not something that will happen often regarding the name changes, but it would have a huge positive effect for some people while not affecting anyone else in the slightest. I genuinely don't see how anyone could be against at least having these options other than just wanting to be angry for the sake of it.
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#72 posted May 9th 2021, 13:21:25 (last edited May 9th 2021, 13:22:24 by Jon Day)
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Quote ( Keri Lovell @ May 9th 2021,09:33:05 ) I'd use a boys name lmao you muppet. :D
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Quote ( Nikola Brojak @ May 9th 2021,11:04:08 ) Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ May 8th 2021,21:08:32 )
You can't change your biological sex either. Gender is merely the social reprocussions of such. It doesn't make you invalid as a human being for believing you were born into the wrong body, you just have a mental illness that needs medical attention, not validation by pseudoscience.
That's your opinion and questioning the majority of modern science makes you as respectable as antivacciners and flatearthers. So to whom it may concern, f you.
First of all questioning the majority is the entire point of science. Second, the majority opinion is that genetics determine gender and as far as humans are concerned there is only male and female. So to accuse me of putting me in the same group as other people who believe in pseudoscience is pretty laughable, but that you also took time out of your day to send me a PM over your own rigid beliefs is just plain cowardly.
I really don't want to have to keep responding to this topic, but I don't see this potential change as being inclusive, what it would do is endorse political activism. We cannot be a politically neutral forum while allowing people to push this dogma.
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Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ May 9th 2021,17:29:51 ) I really don't want to have to keep responding to this topic
Please do this.
Im not amused that I only could watch half of Cameron podcast episode, and 75% of the time thinking... geez, this guys....
About main topic I love the name in the game, I dont know, it makes community being like they are, the memories you create here is about a person, not by a nickname.
And about sex genders, here I see the reason behind a different name, I agree we can have other as a gender and I didnt find any good solution on how people in this gender could put their names, the names they are called irl, not the documental name, unfortunately.
Thanks for the topic @Constantin Heller (A51) and for some great messages we had here, its inspiring, we can have a world where old dogmas can be put aside to start thinking in many other more important questions.
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Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ May 9th 2021,17:29:51 ) We cannot be a politically neutral forum while allowing people to push this dogma.
Actually we can - quite easily. Adding an 'Other' box (or simply hiding gender/not asking for it) doesn't have to be a huge political statement; just acknowledging the fact that we live in a society where not everyone identifies in the old male/female way.
I find it amusing you have used the term 'inclusive', when what you are pushing for is anything but.
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It's actually funny, the most political thing here would be to keep only male and female as the only options, because it's widely socially accepted by now that other genders can very much exist or at least an "other" option is necessary.
I gotta be honest though, more than anything this topic has made me realize how annoying it is to have the same initials as Cameron.
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Quote ( Constantin Heller @ May 9th 2021,11:28:59 ) ignoring all the people who genuinely don't care, Oh what a fabulous world this would be!
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Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ May 9th 2021,17:29:51 ) Quote ( Nikola Brojak @ May 9th 2021,11:04:08 )
Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ May 8th 2021,21:08:32 )
You can't change your biological sex either. Gender is merely the social reprocussions of such. It doesn't make you invalid as a human being for believing you were born into the wrong body, you just have a mental illness that needs medical attention, not validation by pseudoscience.
That's your opinion and questioning the majority of modern science makes you as respectable as antivacciners and flatearthers. So to whom it may concern, f you.
First of all questioning the majority is the entire point of science. Second, the majority opinion is that genetics determine gender and as far as humans are concerned there is only male and female. So to accuse me of putting me in the same group as other people who believe in pseudoscience is pretty laughable, but that you also took time out of your day to send me a PM over your own rigid beliefs is just plain cowardly.
I really don't want to have to keep responding to this topic, but I don't see this potential change as being inclusive, what it would do is endorse political activism. We cannot be a politically neutral forum while allowing people to push this dogma.
Since you're so scientifically minded, surely it wouldn't be difficult for you to cite peer-reviewed scientific papers that conclude that gender can only be influenced by genetics and that there can only be two genders. I'm eager to read those. I'll be waiting in anticipation.
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Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ May 9th 2021,17:29:51 ) Second, the majority opinion is that genetics determine gender and as far as humans are concerned there is only male and female.
Think you're gonna have to provide a source for this. Majority opinion of scientificality illiterate bigots maybe? https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/lesterfeder/this-is-how...
Most people don't even know their sex chromosomes for definite.
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This thread is getting way too toxic, I hope it gets closed soon, people are arguing about different things.
I am on the same page with Beagles (or my interpretation of it), add "other" or remove the option in general and be done with it and lets get back to managing our rubbish drivers. GPRO is really not the place for this conversation.
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Yep you understood me correctly Harri.
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Quote ( Juniorism Beagles @ May 9th 2021,19:08:48 ) our rubbish drivers.
Dino Miles would like to have a word with you.
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Quote ( Ricardo Antunes @ May 9th 2021,19:28:39 ) Dino Miles would like to have a word with you.
Dino is rubbish.
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I think that I have broken down what I feel are maybe the main issues,
The question of "Gender" and the options:- are they valid, and should it be updated ?
1, Sex does not equal gender – it’s actually an entirely different thing that relates to our biology and physical characteristics. Generally we think about sex as a binary: male and female. However, there are several conditions that a person can be born with that don’t fit the typical definitions of female or male.
2, So the above definition establishes that the question is worded incorrectly. It should be "Sex" not "Gender", this then makes the options valid. Sex is what the doctor assigns you at birth, that is it, there is no further option for them to tick.
3, Gender, the meaning of gender has altered constantly through history, and it was used and still is, to assigning a gender to "words" and varies with languages, and the options are and still limited to Male, Female or Neutral.
4, If the option is asking for your gender than the correct options are Male, Female or "Neutral" which has now been changed to "Other" which is also incorrect and now considered offensive.
5, "Gender" is now considered a social construct, which is an idea created by people to help categorize and explain the world around them.
6, Therefore the option of "Other" is viewed as highly offensive due to its dismissive suggestion that if you are neither Male nor Female than you are something other than acceptable by the majority.
7, If a website is using Gender then the accepted options (at time of posting) are Male/Female /"Options" :- Non Binary-Transgender, or you can just have the option to write your preferred choice, currently there are over 110 available options.
8, Having the third option can cause adverse repercussions if this information is not hidden. Unfortunately, trans people often face hatred just because of who they are and so the hidden option must be included in the settings.
9, ...
Next, why is the question even asked?
1, There is only 1 scenario when this type of question is asked, and that is when the website is selling your data. If a website is not selling your data then it will not ask for this information. Financial institutions as an example will not ask for your gender, rather they will ask for your choice of title :- Mr., Mrs., Ms. and Miss +
2, The reason that some questions are mandatory is not that GPRO cares about your preferred gender BUT that the company that it sells your data to requires this information.
3, This brings us to fake names. You cannot sell data if the buyer's algorithm finds "fake" names. (They will match/check your name/profile photo / DOB /Location). There are other reasons but for now I just wish to concentrate on the first issue.
4,...
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Logical option is simply to remove it from the requirements, or based on Mike's comment :
Quote ( Mike Bennett @ May 9th 2021,20:17:10 ) 7, If a website is using Gender then the accepted options (at time of posting) are Male/Female /"Options" :- Non Binary-Transgender, or you can just have the option to write your preferred choice, currently there are over 110 available options.
Create the longest dropdown list in history....
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#86 posted May 9th 2021, 21:11:33 (last edited May 9th 2021, 21:12:01 by Bert Meeus)
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Is there any valid reason to have a 'Gender' in your GPRO Profile? I believe it is not used for anything at all in the game. So what is the benefit of forcing people to select a gender?
I suggest to simple remove the option to have the gender defined in your profile. That is better with regards to GDPR and also puts an end to the discussion in this topic. I think that whatever other solution would be put into place, at least some of use will feel very unhappy about it.
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Just make it non-mandatory :D
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The option should definitely be there, certainly to not display gender or put 'other'. I'm pretty sure I posted about this years ago. Though I'm not sure it will make much difference to the game being welcoming as clearly the forum is full of dinosaurs.
Also I'd love it if I could change my name on here as I feel like anyone who joined as a kid is stuck with it, whilst most are probably using fake surnames
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Quote ( Finn Shaw-McIver @ May 9th 2021,22:41:30 ) The option should definitely be there, certainly to not display gender or put 'other'. I'mpretty sure I posted about this years ago. Though I'm not sure it will make much difference to the game being welcoming as clearly the forum is full of dinosaurs.
Don't worry Finn, my baby self will unleash us all from the claws of those nasty dinossaurs!
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Quote ( Mike Bennett @ May 9th 2021,20:17:10 ) 2, So the above definition establishes that the question is worded incorrectly. It should be "Sex" not "Gender", this then makes the options valid. Sex is what the doctor assigns you at birth, that is it, there is no further option for them to tick.
To be fair I don't get why GPRO would need people's sex at all. Like, what does it care what people have in their pants? For gender I at least somewhat get it as it's woven into personal identity and can influence how you express/present yourself. But sex?
Quote ( Finn Shaw-McIver @ May 9th 2021,22:41:30 ) Though I'm not sure it will make much difference to the game being welcoming as clearly the forum is full of dinosaurs.
Yeah this absolutely, it's not gonna change much for new players reading the forum, but it's definitely something that is necessary IMO even if it's just for people who are already playing the game, we've already seen those exist in this thread.
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