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Tarık Karagül
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Old post #1 posted Sep 2nd 2021, 01:23:28 Quote 
I started to play gpro at the end of the last season. In start I started really good but I continued to improve my cars but still i am in back of other managers. Am I doing something wrong? I can't understand, I do all the setting good but my driver is always slower than others.
Geoff Todd
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Old post #2 posted Sep 2nd 2021, 01:31:46 Quote 
It can take several seasons before one gets to understand the ins and outs of the game and how to improve everything. Strategy, driver training, etc are all things that are needed to learn not just improving car levels. Maybe a mentor would help.
David Evans
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Old post #3 posted Sep 2nd 2021, 01:32:28 Quote 
You’ve answered your own question. All about the driver in rookie and AMA. Certain driver skills are key to being competitive. Search the forums for some info or put in a request for a mentor for some advice on the mentor thread 👍🏻
Daniel Humphreys
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Old post #4 posted Sep 2nd 2021, 02:50:29 Quote 
Hey Tarik, I'd suggest searching the forums, there are some good threads discussing what makes a good driver that can give you a head start.
Adrian Zanoli
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Old post #5 posted Sep 2nd 2021, 03:21:31 Quote 
Both Ur car and Ur driver are "fine", still, U're always the slower in Q1 with around 5s deficit to the pole... probably Ur setup is wrong, what does the driver tell you after the practice laps? is he "confortable" with the setup or does he complain about it? Maybe try different risks in Qualify and during the race.
Jens Jäschke
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Old post #6 posted Sep 3rd 2021, 13:17:39 Quote 
Quote ( Adrian Zanoli @ September 2nd 2021,03:21:31 )

Maybe try different risks in Qualify and during the race.


No risks! Until you have some basic understanding of the more important game mechanics, risks just make things more complicated and muddy the data you gather.

I'd also stay away from car upgrades for now, until one plans to promote. You can get decent results in Rookie with a level 1 car and the right driver.


Rytis Astrauskas
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Old post #7 posted Sep 3rd 2021, 14:13:21 Quote 
As other players say, probably, you should try to change your driver a couple times, to find out what attributes matter the most. You should analyse driver market and watch what drivers have best statistics, as points per race, wins and other things, to get a brief understanding which drivers can bring you points:)
Tibor Szuromi
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Old post #8 posted Sep 3rd 2021, 14:31:41 Quote 
@Tarık Karagül (R45) It’s hard to give a smart answer because the speed of the car depends on a lot of things. In addition, they change dynamically.

I wonder if the car is set to PS + WS? (Perfect Setup + Wing Split)

This is the first step you need to do well - I think.
Rytis Astrauskas
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Old post #9 posted Sep 3rd 2021, 14:34:48 Quote 
Quote ( Tibor Szuromi @ September 3rd 2021,14:31:41 )

@Tarık Karagül (R45) It’s hard to give a smart answer because the speed of the car depends on a lot of things. In addition, they change dynamically.

I wonder if the car is set to PS + WS? (Perfect Setup + Wing Split)

This is the first step you need to do well - I think.


I dont think, that wingsplit is the key thing in competing in Rookie, there is more important things, than that.
Tibor Szuromi
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Old post #10 posted Sep 3rd 2021, 14:37:25 Quote 
Quote ( Rytis Astrauskas @ September 3rd 2021,14:34:48 )



I dont think, that wingsplit is the key thing in competing in Rookie, there is more important things, than that.
... but the PS does.
Cameron Halsall
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Old post #11 posted Sep 3rd 2021, 15:24:50 Quote 
I can't understand why. I mean, what does it mean?
Rytis Astrauskas
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Old post #12 posted Sep 3rd 2021, 15:44:01 Quote 
Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ September 3rd 2021,15:24:50 )

I can't understand why. I mean, what does it mean?


He is reffering PS with perfect setup, you should know what perfect setup means, if you are in amateur :D it is done in practice, if you are questioning wing split, then it is a difference between front and rear wings:)
Richard Robin Paukson
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Old post #13 posted Sep 3rd 2021, 15:46:48 Quote 
Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ September 3rd 2021,15:24:50 )

I can't understand why. I mean, what does it mean?


It's an English word that you can use if you want to know the cause of an event or the reason for doing something.
Cameron Halsall
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Old post #14 posted Sep 3rd 2021, 15:54:53 Quote 
Yeah but why does it mean that?
Tarık Karagül
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Old post #15 posted Sep 8th 2021, 02:33:53 Quote 
Actually, I wanted to learn what are my mistakes so that I wrote the forum. I am really sorry because I am new in the game so I wrote my message with wrong grammar and lack information. Thank you to all of you. I read your messages and lots of other forum messages in the game and some friends send messages to me about game so that I saw my mistakes.
Richard Robin Paukson
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Old post #16 posted Sep 8th 2021, 06:00:15 Quote 
It is fine, Tarik. A lot of people here speak English as a second or third language so as long as people can understand you, it's all fine. :)
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Old post #17 posted Sep 9th 2021, 06:58:26 Quote 
I thik is a lot of stuff you are not watching. But in rookie the driver is the number one to get promoted to ama. But driver not only is necesary. you need to get a good car, and is vital understand the mecanics. You need to know about HR (hapy range), PS (perfect setup), WS (Wings splits), TDC (time diference compounds), Change setup for weather, wet to dry and backward, CT (clear track), overtaking risk, car wear management, testing, sponsor negotiation, trainig driver, etc... is a path.. seems to long but is not!!! But you need patience!!!

Find a goot tutor, mentor o team!! ask!!!
And try... you don´t fear to fail.. Fail but learn!!!
Jens Jäschke
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Old post #18 posted Sep 9th 2021, 13:29:02 Quote 
Quote ( José Luis Navarro @ September 9th 2021,06:58:26 )

you need to get a good car, and is vital understand the mecanics. You need to know about HR (hapy range), PS (perfect setup), WS (Wings splits), TDC (time diference compounds), Change setup for weather, wet to dry and backward, CT (clear track), overtaking risk, car wear management, testing, sponsor negotiation, trainig driver, etc..


You can get to ama without knowing about wing splits just fine. Been there, done that. On most tracks, the wing split doesn't matter enough that it would bump you from a promotion spot
You can also do reasonably well without knowing how to convert between wet and dry. It's something that comes up maybe two or three times per season. Again, been there, got the t-shirt
Risk management is also optional. With the right package, it works with 0 risks, too. Knowing at least a bit makes things easier, though.
Sponsors also just make it easier. You can get by without any sponsors in Rookie, but the additional cash will certainly help with retention in Ama.
You could probably even do it with a level 1 car, but upgrading to level 2 when things are worn isn't that much skill either. The more important knowledge here is to know when and where to stop upgrading.

The rest, I agree with. Happy range and getting close to perfect setup in practice are a must. As is driver management (both selecting, training and keeping your driver). Those two, together with being able to set a good race strategy and estimating fuel use within 5l/stint, you're 95% there.
The remaining 5% are either luck or dabbling in one of the other areas.
Tibor Szuromi
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Old post #19 posted Sep 9th 2021, 13:45:55 Quote 
For me, the joy is: discovery.
Chris Shaw
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Old post #20 posted Sep 9th 2021, 13:48:28 (last edited Sep 9th 2021, 13:50:40 by Chris Shaw) Quote 
I disagree with the above point of view! (edit: not Tibor, he posted as i was writing)

If you know wingsplits you can gain 0.5s vs poor ones. Knowing how much difference in CT that makes, and how much difference in car wear that is, you can save money a lot easier by performing good laps. I agree to the extent that it isn't important to chase the last 0.1s per lap but having totally wrong WS will hurt you financially from reduced income or from pushing the car harder.

The weather effect is more severe, you can run a dry setup on a wet track and see this yourself.

You dont need a good car to be at the front in Ama. I have the 25-30th ranked car this season and I got podiums, I dont disclose my CT but it was low...

Sponsors: they help at all levels. 1 sponsor at £1m/race is £17m a season, and if you aren't accounting for 17m in your budget you aren't going to go far. Take my season as an example, I know that on paper I havent saved much money compared to what is normal for a rebuild season in Ama, however I have a significant sponsor related budget for next season which combined with more race winnings will produce a massive profit to provide a budget for pro. Just to give you an idea of how I personally think.

My experience in my current group in Ama is that more people will throw away time with wrong pit strategies. Lots of people forgetting the importance of blocking.
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Old post #21 posted Sep 9th 2021, 13:58:56 (last edited Sep 9th 2021, 13:59:14 by Tibor Szuromi) Quote 
Every second is important. Let’s not trivialize things on a beginner level either. Discovery is very important. Start immediately!
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Old post #22 posted Sep 9th 2021, 14:06:42 (last edited Sep 9th 2021, 14:07:11 by Richard Robin Paukson) Quote 
Quote ( Chris Shaw @ September 9th 2021,13:48:28 )

I disagree with the above point of view! (edit: not Tibor, he posted as i was writing)

If you know wingsplits you can gain 0.5s vs poor ones. Knowing how much difference in CT that makes, and how much difference in car wear that is, you can save money a lot easier by performing good laps. I agree to the extent that it isn't important to chase the last 0.1s per lap but having totally wrong WS will hurt you financially from reduced income or from pushing the car harder.

The weather effect is more severe, you can run a dry setup on a wet track and see this yourself.

You dont need a good car to be at the front in Ama. I have the 25-30th ranked car this season and I got podiums, I dont disclose my CT but it was low...

Sponsors: they help at all levels. 1 sponsor at £1m/race is £17m a season, and if you aren't accounting for 17m in your budget you aren't going to go far. Take my season as an example, I know that on paper I havent saved much money compared to what is normal for a rebuild season in Ama, however I have a significant sponsor related budget for next season which combined with more race winnings will produce a massive profit to provide a budget for pro. Just to give you an idea of how I personally think.

My experience in my current group in Ama is that more people will throw away time with wrong pit strategies. Lots of people forgetting the importance of blocking.


Jens was talking about what you need to get past Rookie. And in my opinion he is correct.
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Old post #23 posted Sep 9th 2021, 14:11:16 (last edited Sep 9th 2021, 14:14:03 by Mark Pinnick) Quote 
Quote ( Jens Jäschke @ September 9th 2021,13:29:02 )


The rest, I agree with. Happy range and getting close to perfect setup in practice are a must. As is driver management (both selecting, training and keeping your driver). Those two, together with being able to set a good race strategy and estimating fuel use within 5l/stint, you're 95% there.
The remaining 5% are either luck or dabbling in one of the other areas.

95% is a little on the high side for the importance of what you've listed there.

Although, for retention in Ama, you probably don't need as much as that. Personally, I think the ability to convert between wet and dry setups is huge; it gives you such an advantage in a race where Q1 is dry and the race is predominantly wet. If you can't do that, you're allowing others to retain easily, which in turn makes your retention harder.

Interesting that you mention running a L1 car; advice to anyone reading this - once your parts have worn in rookie, never run a L1 car. ;) Agree with the skill to know where to stop though.

Ultimately, it's all about knowledge; the more you know, the more you realise you need to find out!! There are so many little things that can combine to make huge differences to your season; knowing which to focus on, and when, is the key to this entire game. :)

Quote ( Richard Robin Paukson @ September 9th 2021,14:06:42 )

Jens was talking about what you need to get past Rookie. And in my opinion he is correct

Agree partially; however, by extension, retaining in AMA is required to get past rookie - otherwise, you're back in rookie! And I think you need a little bit more (not much, but a little) to achieve this. :)
Jens Jäschke
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Old post #24 posted Sep 9th 2021, 14:23:33 (last edited Sep 9th 2021, 14:28:11 by Jens Jäschke) Quote 
Quote ( Chris Shaw @ September 9th 2021,13:48:28 )


If you know wingsplits you can gain 0.5s vs poor ones.


Sure, but you rarely get that much compared to neutral split. Either that or I'm trying the completely wrong splits, as I'm often seeing around or less than .1s difference to neutral on most tracks.

Quote ( Chris Shaw @ September 9th 2021,13:48:28 )


The weather effect is more severe, you can run a dry setup on a wet track and see this yourself.


Again, sure, this sucks, but how often does the (majority of the) race have different weather than practice? This season it was 4 races, if I didn't count wrong. Last season, it was 3, iirc.
You can afford to throw 3-4 races when promoting out of Rookie.


Quote ( Chris Shaw @ September 9th 2021,13:48:28 )


You dont need a good car to be at the front in Ama.


Pretty much what I said. You can promote from Rookie with a bad car, if your driver is good. Money management is far more important than having a good car.


Quote ( Chris Shaw @ September 9th 2021,13:48:28 )


Sponsors: they help at all levels. 1 sponsor at £1m/race is £17m a season, and if you aren't accounting for 17m in your budget you aren't going to go far. Take my season as an example, I know that on paper I havent saved much money compared to what is normal for a rebuild season in Ama, however I have a significant sponsor related budget for next season which combined with more race winnings will produce a massive profit to provide a budget for pro. Just to give you an idea of how I personally think.


Sure sponsors help. I never claimed otherwise. I just said that sponsor management isn't required to promote to Ama (out of Rookie).
Promoting out of Ama into Pro obviously needs more skills/knowledge than promoting out of Rookie. I, personally, have no experience with anything beyond retention in Ama, so I'll defer to your knowledge there.

Quote ( Mark Pinnick @ September 9th 2021,14:11:16 )


Interesting that you mention running a L1 car; advice to anyone reading this - once your parts have worn in rookie, never run a L1 car. ;) Agree with the skill to know where to stop though.

I never said it's a good idea to do so. Just that it is most likely doable :D
There is one reason to run a L1 car in Rookie, though: Data collection. By running only L1 parts, you eliminate an entire set of variables from your data, making the effect of the rest much more obvious.
It's obviously not a good idea for promo-seasons, though.
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Old post #25 posted Sep 9th 2021, 14:40:22 Quote 
We need a good Rúki group and we have to stay there for many seasons and experiment, experiment.
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Old post #26 posted Sep 10th 2021, 09:09:40 Quote 
I still think is a wrong not to do all stuff... you get out of rookie yes... is to easy... in the half of the groups only 3 o 4 run.. 4 get promoted.. not much you need... But only aspire toretain in ama.. So low aspirations.. If you want to run good need to get al posible time.. Is tru if you have a low group in ama.. You get resoult... But if you get a competitive group... And have a copuple or more.. you get so bad results.
You can´t tell a noob you are to fine with a car level 2... in ama..
You don´t tell don´t use ws...
You don´t tell the weather is not important...

Why?? HMG... so you tell run bad.. so is not important.. and the guy is to boring.. and let the game...

You play a game of races to win.. to be fast.. they need to learn how to be fast and not die in the path!!!
Is nt so heavy... Is only get the rigth data.. And if you want to promote always witout winning.. Good for you.. I want to won..

Rookie is not challenge!!
Ama is Easy..

Pro is hard.. may be I never win in pro.. but is fine a have fun... may be is my limit..

But don´t say the details is not importante..

In rookie you need to test and learn all... Make mistakes, make errors but learn....

But if don´t use ct, not find ws, don´t get PS, you don´t know how to get wrigt setup for diferent weather (dry to wet o simple temp. change!).

so why play???

I realy think yu need to learn all... But is an opinion...

And is true... with a good driver you can promote to amateur.. you don't need much more. But: it's still a bad decision!!
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Old post #27 posted Sep 10th 2021, 09:56:33 Quote 
Quote ( José Luis Navarro @ September 10th 2021,09:09:40 )

I still think is a wrong not to do all stuff... you get out of rookie yes... is to easy... in the half of the groups only 3 o 4 run.. 4 get promoted.. not much you need... But only aspire toretain in ama.. So low aspirations.. If you want to run good need to get al posible time.. Is tru if you have a low group in ama.. You get resoult... But if you get a competitive group... And have a copuple or more.. you get so bad results.
You can´t tell a noob you are to fine with a car level 2... in ama..
You don´t tell don´t use ws...
You don´t tell the weather is not important...

Why?? HMG... so you tell run bad.. so is not important.. and the guy is to boring.. and let the game...

You play a game of races to win.. to be fast.. they need to learn how to be fast and not die in the path!!!
Is nt so heavy... Is only get the rigth data.. And if you want to promote always witout winning.. Good for you.. I want to won..

Rookie is not challenge!!
Ama is Easy..

Pro is hard.. may be I never win in pro.. but is fine a have fun... may be is my limit..

But don´t say the details is not importante..

In rookie you need to test and learn all... Make mistakes, make errors but learn....

But if don´t use ct, not find ws, don´t get PS, you don´t know how to get wrigt setup for diferent weather (dry to wet o simple temp. change!).

so why play???

I realy think yu need to learn all... But is an opinion...

And is true... with a good driver you can promote to amateur.. you don't need much more. But: it's still a bad decision!!



I don't think anyone said the details aren't important, but like they said, if you get the basics right you can get out of Rookie and should be able to retain in AMA (I think, still trying...) The more you learn, the better you are equipped to be successful at the game, sure, no one is disputing that, but getting to linger in AMA by getting the basics right is a great first step...
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Old post #28 posted Sep 10th 2021, 10:17:29 Quote 
Quote ( José Luis Navarro @ September 10th 2021,09:09:40 )



I realy think yu need to learn all... But is an opinion...


Of course you need to learn it all. Eventually.
If you're new and just started the game, you know pretty much nothing. You can't learn everything at once, so you need to prioritize. At the same time, most people want to see some progress and success.

So all I'm saying is that they should focus on learning those things that are necessary to promote out of Rookie first. Those are the most important skills to have, anyway. After they've nailed those, they can then move on to the skills necessary for retaining safely in Ama and promoting to pro.

Quote ( José Luis Navarro @ September 10th 2021,09:09:40 )

But only aspire toretain in ama.. So low aspirations..

Quote ( José Luis Navarro @ September 10th 2021,09:09:40 )

Rookie is not challenge!!
Ama is Easy..


You need to learn how to walk before you can run. Promoting to Ama is easy for an experienced player, but it is a big achievement for a newcomer. Telling them otherwise will just demoralize them and make them lose interest in the game. They'll become more ambitious on their own, as they get better

Quote ( José Luis Navarro @ September 10th 2021,09:09:40 )

You can´t tell a noob you are to fine with a car level 2... in ama..
You don´t tell don´t use ws...
You don´t tell the weather is not important...

Quote ( José Luis Navarro @ September 10th 2021,09:09:40 )


But if don´t use ct, not find ws, don´t get PS, you don´t know how to get wrigt setup for diferent weather (dry to wet o simple temp. change!).


I never argued against getting close to PS. That's one of the most important core skills a player needs.
I also never claimed that a level 2 car would be fine to retain in Ama. I said it would be fine in Rookie.

About wing splits and weather-setup-change, I merely said you don't need them.
If you have practice laps left over, sure, try a wing split or two, but you probably shouldn't make that a priority if you have more important things to do with your practice laps.
If you have accumulated enough data on wet and dry races on the same track, it would of course be stupid not to evaluate them. But you don't need to wait for that data before trying to promote out of Rookie.

Regarding risks, again, you don't need them. Not using them also gives you data on a clear baseline and makes your data a little bit easier to analyze, as you eliminate a bunch of variables. You can then either play around with them while you promote out of Rookie, or once you've arrived in Ama. Of course, if you already have a bunch of seasons worth of data, this becomes less important.
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Old post #29 posted Sep 10th 2021, 12:36:25 Quote 
I have in the past said many times, that promoting from rookie to ame. is a simple task with a little experience and data learnt, the problem then is that you then find yourself in a group which will almost certainly include managers that have demoted from pro. and seasoned ame. managers all of whom have vastly more experience, higher level drivers and, in some cases vast amounts of cash to spend. Trying to compete with with these is in 9 out of ten cases is almost impossible unless you are lucky enough to have promoted into a "weak" group, highly unlikely and leads to nothing but despair frustration and loss of motivation and the loss of interest.
I believe there is an argument for the introduction of interim groups being being set up into which all promoting managers from all rookie groups and demoting managers from Ame. should enter. This would "level the playing field " somewhat giving all managers the opportunity the hone their knowledge and skills and more importantly retain their interest and desire to progress within the game.
This will not happen of course, and we will have to accept that. A quick glance at my own involvement in the game will show that I do know what I am talking about to some extent having ridden this roller coaster many times !! But I do keep coming back for more, why? I don`t really know, perhaps I am mad!!
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Old post #30 posted Sep 10th 2021, 13:23:47 (last edited Sep 10th 2021, 13:28:11 by Twig Fahaji) Quote 
Seems like we're getting away from the original question here. Tarik is struggling to score points in rookie, and it's not because he isn't getting his wingsplit correct in the rain.

Of course for consistency and improvement you need to learn how to train your driver and improve your car while managing your finances. But if it's purely about each race in turn then the first steps should be:

- Setup. When your driver says he is happy, it doesn't mean he is perfectly happy. Once you get the 'satisfied' message, keep making changes and see what happens to your NET time.

- Strategy. Look at the Race Summary afterwards and see how many stops the winners/podium made. Did you have the same strategy? Perhaps they were on faster tyres, or perhaps they took slower tyres but didn't have to stop so much. Look for patterns over the race calendar to see what links races with fewer stops/harder tyre compounds.

- Risks. The newbie guide states that 20ct (clear track risk) is HIGH for a rookie driver. If you see lots of 'Driver Mistake' in the Race Analysis, then you may be running risks that are too high. It is possible to get good results with 0ct in rookie.

If you think you are getting all of these things right and are still slow, then it could just be that your driver isn't good enough, but I suspect there is still room for improvement on both of the above, particularly the strategy bit, before you start blaming your recruitment skills. Unless you are signing drivers based on their name. Do not do this.

It's easy to get disheartened, but I'm glad to see you're still racing. The key thing to remember is that Rookie is the only tier where it doesn't matter if you get things wrong - the game forgives and forgets every season. So make the most of it!

Apologies if this seems REALLY basic stuff, but if you're finishing last in rookie, then that's what you need to focus on.
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