| Začetnik |
Tema: How to tell That someone is NOT a Double Account |
205 odgovora
|
|
|
In England false imprisonment is an offence.
To withhold anyone’s right to a fair trial in modern life is unjust, and yes I do know this is only a game not a murder trial
Evidence was gathered, correct or not make no odds here until both sides are allowed to put their case.
Any time a judgement is made before both side can be heard is always likely to be flawed.
All I ask is that all evidence is gathered and then the case can be put to the offender, and if the facts cannot be explained or a flaw pointed out then bans ect should be implemented. I do not wish to see innocent people punished for doing nothing wrong whilst there are people that may or may not be double accounts or other rule breakers playing week in week out unpunished.
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Simon Chittenden @ July 14th 2011,15:01:10 )
In England false imprisonment is an offence.
To withhold anyone’s right to a fair trial in modern life is unjust, and yes I do know this is only a game not a murder trial
Evidence was gathered, correct or not make no odds here until both sides are allowed to put their case.
Any time a judgement is made before both side can be heard is always likely to be flawed.
All I ask is that all evidence is gathered and then the case can be put to the offender, and if the facts cannot be explained or a flaw pointed out then bans ect should be implemented. I do not wish to see innocent people punished for doing nothing wrong whilst there are people that may or may not be double accounts or other rule breakers playing week in week out unpunished.
This is all well and good, but the admins have said they DO have evidence that both accounts were logged onto one PC / Tablet. Under teh clearly written rules, this isnt allowed.
Not sure where there is a 'grey zone' in that?
|
|
|
|
|
And giving details of what constitutes evidence for a ban, especially to someone accused/caught breaking the rules, will weaken the Admins' hand when it comes to detecting DAs etc. Won't be happening.
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Andrew Watson @ July 14th 2011,15:09:17 )
And giving details of what constitutes evidence for a ban, especially to someone accused/caught breaking the rules, will weaken the Admins' hand when it comes to detecting DAs etc. Won't be happening.
Which is a bit of a problem. There could be a perfectly reasonable explanation for something which might appear to be suspicious, but if you are not told what you have done wrong then you cannot explain it.
Having said that, I also believe that we have to trust that Mr Shadow is doing the job as well as it can be done. I have worked with weblogs in the past, and with my limited knowledge know that there is more than one way to identify a computer, so if Mr Shadow says that one machine was used to access both accounts then I have to accept that is true. Of course, you dont know who it was that used that computer to log into the accounts, but your account is your responsibility so that ends that debate.
As for the additional evidence that Mr Shadow will have come up with, again, I have to trust that it was compelling enough to warrant a ban. The only downside to this is that revealing what that evidence was cannot be done without telling the community what to avoid doing in future (or just telling a suspected DA how to avoid being caught in future).
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Gordon Ashford @ July 14th 2011,15:17:18 )
Which is a bit of a problem. There could be a perfectly reasonable explanation for something which might appear to be suspicious, but if you are not told what you have done wrong then you cannot explain it.
Having said that, I also believe that we have to trust that Mr Shadow is doing the job as well as it can be done. I have worked with weblogs in the past, and with my limited knowledge know that there is more than one way to identify a computer, so if Mr Shadow says that one machine was used to access both accounts then I have to accept that is true. Of course, you dont know who it was that used that computer to log into the accounts, but your account is your responsibility so that ends that debate.
As for the additional evidence that Mr Shadow will have come up with, again, I have to trust that it was compelling enough to warrant a ban. The only downside to this is that revealing what that evidence was cannot be done without telling the community what to avoid doing in future (or just telling a suspected DA how to avoid being caught in future).
I do agree with you Gordon, but then what about cases like this which clearly isnt a DA... "oops we got it wrong, but we do have 1 double login recorded, so lets use that to excuse the race they missed" is that acceptable for us to have a loss of 10 mill (bonus and cup knockouts), potentially a lot more if we lose our negotiating sponsor to a competitor?
You would think that a couple like us who have put collectively way over 100 dollars into their bank account would get at least an apology or some kind of compensation, because im sure theres a LOT of others out there who have had a flag on them and got a mail instead of a ban.
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Stuart Gibson @ July 14th 2011,15:23:17 )
I do agree with you Gordon, but then what about cases like this which clearly isnt a DA...
We had this conversation via PM already, but the fact is we dont know exactly what the additional evidence is. If it was what you thought it was then it does seem harsh. If there is any more to it than that we dont know.
As said early on, we only have a half of the story here, we dont know why Shadow took the action that he did, and frankly for all 'I' know, you could actually be a DA that has been caught but wriggled free.
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Gordon Ashford @ July 14th 2011,15:32:42 )
we only have a half of the story here, we dont know why Shadow took the action that he did
so unlike most police in most countries is Mr Shadow not accountable
an easy way to prevent issues like this one is that the evidence need to be put to the GM / admin team ( not the forum mods, they are doing there job of cutting other offences out )
and then rather then one person banning people becouse he spots some "eveidence" then a small group should take the info and use it to get the correct result.
dont get me wrong , I am sure that Mr Shadow is doing his best , but with the constant threat of DA's ect into the game he has a lot to do and mistakes can happen.
All , and it has been said before, that is required is a sorry( that really hard word) to both Heather and Stu and maybe reallow the 17 race bonus if they complete the rest of the season.
In the mean time maybe the current way of tracking DA's is now out of working order as the ones that wish to cheat will always find new ways to do this.
|
|
|
|
Making assumptions to what happened or not in this case does not help either side.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about an evidence for cases like this, i have my own one. The fact is they wont provide those (for a lot of reasons) and since im a guest here i just have to accept that.
I also have years of experience my self, hunting cheaters in another type of game and i know for a fact, providing evidence for a cheater how obvious it might be, does not come with a confession anyway. (Not saying Heather and Stuart are a DA or that they actually did log in to "wrong" computer, just to clarify that most internet users should not always believe everything they hear or read). We have only been provided by one side of the story, the other side using their right not to comment at all. These facts does not prove anything for me, it just makes it harder to have an opinion.
One thing is certain though, using 2 or more computers from the same household will not only bring the attention to a possible DA but will also increase the chance of breaking a rule, deliberately or not.
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Simon Chittenden @ July 14th 2011,15:58:31 )
so unlike most police in most countries is Mr Shadow not accountable
Also unlike the police in most countries, you presence here or participation is completely at your discretion. If you don't like their ruling you can walk away and never deal with them again. So let's not go trying to make a federal case out of things. :-)
As I said before, there's just too much grey area, too much room for confusion and so on. It's a crappy situation for Stuart and Heather to be in. Fortunately it's just a game.
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Vladimir Alexandrov @ July 14th 2011,12:07:35 )
Then our logs must be telling lies. Pretty strange since they have been pretty reliable during the last 5 or so years :)
People make mistakes, and it's pretty obvious one of your guys made a huge mistake!
I really am getting sick and tired of Shadow and his idiotic ways of accusing people for no reason sometimes. I mean, I was accused once just because I was taking care of one of my team-mates account (this was before the whole holiday feature came about) and I had already told him I was taking care of that account, and he still accused me of double-accounting? Really?
This is a great online game, but I can understand why a few people, myself included, have stopped or are unlikely to donate to this game. I don't want to be critical of this game, but things like these shouldn't really happen. And these are just my opinions, you people have got yours too.
And I know it's just a game, but these stupid little things (accusing of double accounts and those idiotic randoms that happen at horrible timing) can make or break a season, just like it has for both Stu and Heather now and myself in the past!
|
|
|
|
|
We all know the gibson's are DA so never mind
|
|
|
|
|
We all know you're a trouble maker, so never mind.
|
|
|
|
personally I will never understand what motivates people to create more than one account
seriously, I have no idea why they want to compete in an international game with just fake meriths
I can see there are some benefits, but if you work with a team you can achieve the same benefits and probablly in a much better way, as you will have the time to focus on other aspects of the games that no data from as many extra accounts you have will help you out
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Dylan van den Berg @ July 14th 2011,16:25:59 )
We all know the gibson's are DA so never mind
Slander , now that a real law that's been broken can this person with his sour grapes at being caught by the team cheating and trying to take the teams info get into trouble for this?
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Magnus Seigner @ July 14th 2011,16:04:41 )
We have only been provided by one side of the story, the other side using their right not to comment at all. We have been provided with the other sides story as well. I'm referring to the removal of the ban and the later labelling it as 1 race ban to cover for the missed race.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Kashvinder Mann @ July 14th 2011,16:24:45 )
People make mistakes, and it's pretty obvious one of your guys made a huge mistake!
And this is based on what evidence exactly ? Based on what your team mates have told you maybe ? You know for a fact that Stuart & Heather did not both log in from the same computer at whatever time they are supposed to have done so?
I dont know the facts, I have my suspicions but that is all they are, but I doubt the whole set of facts will ever be made fully public so it is somewhat pointless.
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Gordon Ashford @ July 14th 2011,17:17:07 )
And this is based on what evidence exactly ? Quote ( Shoaib Mohamed @ July 14th 2011,17:11:53 )
We have been provided with the other sides story as well. I'm referring to the removal of the ban and the later labelling it as 1 race ban to cover for the missed race.
|
|
|
|
I do feel sorry for all the people who are wrongly accused of having DA's since I have been in a similar situation before, due to suspicious activities by another manager.
EDIT-Marcelo, to me your picture looks like it says "Winners don't use DRS"
|
|
|
|
Leo - at least bother to get your fact & story straight.
Kash referred to Mr Shadow making a mistake in relation to Vlads post about the logs being wrong. There is no evidence at all, beyond Stuart & Heathers denial, that these logs are wrong.
If there was any 'mistake' in the suspicious activity that was found after that incident I dont know, as no one knows what that relates to. Maybe an explanation was given that was acceptable, maybe Mr Shadow is giving a final chance, we dont know.
But the removal of the perma ban in no way at all proves that a mistake was made in relation to the logs.
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Gordon Ashford @ July 14th 2011,17:17:07 )
And this is based on what evidence exactly ? Based on what your team mates have told you maybe ? You know for a fact that Stuart & Heather did not both log in from the same computer at whatever time they are supposed to have done so?
I know the both of them well that they won't make these kind of mistakes. After all, if they were accused of being double accounts, how come they're still around here? I'm just making my own observation that someone has wrongfully accused them of doing something they didn't do.
As for the Mr Shadow part, I have my reasons for blaming him. After all, he's given me problems in the past too, and I know for a fact that he was, back then, wrongfully accusing me of having a double account, which I obviously don't have, since it was my freaking team-mate, who lives half-way across the world! He might have just done the same thing.
And come on, the whole thing is that someone has already ruined Stu and Heather's season for no damn reason, how about an apology for the both of them? I know there's no way they will get reimbursed for what has happened!
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Leonardo Bittencourt @ July 14th 2011,17:23:15 )
New post #137 posted today at 17:23:15
Quote ( Gordon Ashford @ July 14th 2011,17:17:07 )
And this is based on what evidence exactly ?
Quote ( Shoaib Mohamed @ July 14th 2011,17:11:53 )
We have been provided with the other sides story as well. I'm referring to the removal of the ban and the later labelling it as 1 race ban to cover for the missed race.
This can't really be considered solid evidence. It is circumstantial evidence at best.
I think the best way to remedy this is going forward, any ban should be agreed upon by more than 1 person before being placed into effect.
|
|
|
|
|
And the fact that i logged both accounts onto my tablet pc, just proves that there is something wrong in their detection as neither of us own any mobile devices whatsoever, just 2 desktops.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Gordon Ashford @ July 14th 2011,17:28:33 )
But the removal of the perma ban in no way at all proves that a mistake was made in relation to the logs.
You are just grasping at straws.
If they were perma banned, but then had the decision revoked, then what possible explanation that gives us?
Quote ( Gordon Ashford @ July 14th 2011,17:28:33 )
Mr Shadow is giving a final chance, we dont know.
Final change of what?
Do it again and you are perma banned? That is ridiculous, how many DAs are perma banned without second chances?
If they got a "second" chance, it is obviously because the evidence was not 100% in favor of it. You don't need to be Phd in logic here.
Which means they were accused wrongly, and should have a formal apology together with the 5mil.
As said before, you can't just go ban people, then go back and pretend nothing happened and cover up in the DA hunting excuse, this is not the way to show respect for your loyal players(like they who were supporters).
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Stuart Gibson @ July 14th 2011,17:31:30 )
And the fact that i logged both accounts onto my tablet pc, just proves that there is something wrong in their detection as neither of us own any mobile devices whatsoever, just 2 desktops.
I can't answer on behalf of Mr Shadow, but I looked at both of your latest browser strings, and Heather's does come up including "Tablet PC 2.0".
Try it yourself:
http://whatsmyuseragent.com/
|
|
|
|
Game Rules:
"8.4 Multiple accounts
There may be only one account per player, and one player per computer. Multiple accounts are not allowed! If we notice at any time that a person has more than one account, or more than one account is being used on the same computer (except in the case described in 8.3) then we reserve our right to close one or both accounts without prior warning."
It is not allowed more than one account per computer. What about IP? In the case of several computers that share the same internet?
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Dylan van den Berg @ July 14th 2011,16:25:59 )
We all know the gibson's are DA so never mind you really are a nasty piece of work arent you...kicked from our team for passing info to another team, then you have to come onto this thread and spout your vitriol.
you were PART of our team, you absolutely 100% KNOW stu and heather are 2 different accounts.
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Chris Williams @ July 14th 2011,17:39:14 )
"Tablet PC 2.0".
Windows Vista based. Could also be some tools faking a user agent string.
Edit: I've also seen those kind of "desktops" that are monitors with pc inside instead of having a separate case,, who report that user agent
|
|
|
|
|
I believe shadow (because unlike whoever started this thread he can ban me).
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Dave Haustead @ July 14th 2011,17:41:01 )
you were PART of our team, you absolutely 100% KNOW stu and heather are 2 different accounts.
That's the funny part, but we all know his motives for posting here, just another sad and angry kid who just wants to get back for no reason.
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Dave Haustead @ July 14th 2011,17:41:01 )
you were PART of our team, you absolutely 100% KNOW stu and heather are 2 different accounts.
Thats what the Tigers said about Joan
|
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Română
Italiano
Português
Português
Français
Polski
Русский
Български
Македонски
Српски
Nederlands
Vlaams
Suomi
Lietuvių
Čeština
Magyar
Eesti keel
Slovenčina
Türkçe
Shqip
Ελληνικά
Bahasa Melayu
Dansk
Pirate
