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Tema: Retiring and Rejoining |
38 odgovora
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#31 objavljeno 22 Stu 2019, 14:47:54
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Maybe fewer new players would leave the game if they were able to max their untrainables in the first season also?
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#32 objavljeno 23 Stu 2019, 23:12:52
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Quote ( Stefan Olofsson @ November 22nd 2019,14:47:54 ) Maybe fewer new players would leave the game if they were able to max their untrainables in the first season also?
While I agree that would make it very easy for returning players to regain their untrainables, it would take away the differences between managers overall because everyone would have them by the end of season one and they would not longer be important, so you might as well drop them completely if that was the way to go. However It is good to point out at least this as an option.
I guess having read all of this the idea I like the best is to have returning managers dropped into AM instead of Rookie where it is just a waste of everyone's time. That player and the rookie players. Drop them into AM "IF" there is room under the existing "ADDITIONAL PROMOTIONS" and otherwise drop them into rookie if the manager is not willing to wait to come back. Then from there have the untrainables set at 50% of whatever they were and let them increase at 4 times the normal rate until they are all back. That tries to meet a middle ground between returning them completely and having to rebuild them from zero which might hold returning managers out of the game.
I like to view the game as a whole and not what is good for one manager or another. I personally would like to see the game grow to double or triple it's current size and have a greater number of racing levels, maybe ...AM-1, AM-2, Mast-1, Mast-2...... At the same time, it would be good to add in some differences at each level. For instance we have the addition of tires and TD at the PRO level but never anything else in the other levels. I think what to add would be a separate thread/question and I have ideas there too.
In the mean time, lets see if we can get some of the players who have left encouraged to come back into the game.
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#33 objavljeno 24 Stu 2019, 02:06:49
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One of the points addressed here is how fast are untrainables being developed. For that, in this and other threads I've seen numbers ranging from the theoretically fastest, which isn't reasonable, to something like 6 years or so, which whereas less absurd, it's still a very optimistic value in my book.
Back in the 40s (so these values might not be an accurate representation of the current state, but I'm not digging recent data), the average testing per manager per race between Amateur and Elite had a weighted value of about 0.22, or ~3.8 testings per manager per season. Assuming these values are similar nowadays, and with roughly 4500 managers between Amateur and Elite, that means ~4200 staff experience were gained each season IF none of those testings were done when untrainables were already maximized (we can let that slide). However, ~800 managers each season lose their untrainables just by demoting to Rookie, and that doesn't include Rookie resets plus untrainables being lost by retiring managers. All in all, if these demoting to Rookie managers have in average more than 5.25 staff experience to lose, in overall the total untrainables balance per season is a net loss (again, assuming none of the testings was wasted because experience was at 100 already and not including retiring or resetting managers).
The reality, thus, is way more dire than just stating "untrainables may be maximized in N seasons" and calling it a day. I won't insist on the subject about how valuable untrainables are. In my limited data, I think they are more important than what Alex suggests, but that doesn't matter, also because of what Alex pointed out: if they are important, newcomers are quite handicapped; if they aren't, it shouldn't matter if changes were done to tackle the untrainables loss (or in my more drastic opinion: they shouldn't even exist).
In any case, I think this should be addressed, either with Alex' suggestion, the elimination of untrainables altogether or at least with some other option, such as untrainables not being resetted when going to Rookie.
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#34 objavljeno 25 Stu 2019, 21:41:13
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I can't see the logic why a manager retiring should have help to get his untrainables back and every manager relegated to rookie have to start over at zero. Do really the experienced managers need more help than all of the managers being relegated to rookie?
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#35 objavljeno 26 Stu 2019, 00:59:45
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It is more about how we can encourage managers of any level to come back into the game. Right now if you spent 50 seasons building up and you leave the game, you have to start all over from scratch. Most will not come back because of that and we lose those managers for good. The question, is that good for the game? I don't think so. While many think we should not fix this problem, it means by taking that stance you do not want to see most of those members back and therefore that group of people are suggesting that the game is better off for not giving a method of encouraging those players back in some way.
My issue at hand is that it seems like the game only has about a 5% retention of players that come into the game and stay for any longer period of time. Over time the game has not grown in numbers and perhaps slowly reducing. To that end bringing back as many old players as possible is of interest to everyone even if you do not like the idea of letting them have their retrainables back in some fashion. Without that, I fear the game will die in time when there is an option to help keep it going. Eventually the costs of providing the servers and support to the game will be above what the game brings in and then the writing is on the wall. A high proportion of the older members that left are also supporters which helps the finances of the game. There has to be give somewhere. I would rather let it be something small like untrainables being given back so established players out of the game for a number of seasons (5??) have reason to come back and not face that wall to get back to where they left off.
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#36 objavljeno 26 Stu 2019, 01:31:03
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I made a suggestion a few years back about this - /gb/forum/ViewTopic.asp?TopicId=26788
I like the below options as well that were posted. I think we still need a change, but mainly to encourage old players to return.
Quote ( Edwin Silva @ December 30th 2016,22:49:05 ) I'd simply get rid of them altogether, to be honest.
Quote ( Roland Postle @ December 30th 2016,22:43:15 ) I don't see what purpose a newbie penalty stat serves at all. How about something like:
Each race you don't test XP falls by 1%
Each race you test it rises by 1% of 100-XP
So that it's practically impossible to reach 0 or 100 but the more you test or don't test the closer you get. Tech Insight could be the same but move a bit faster, say 2.5%
Then a new player / rookie reset would start with the skills on 50, or perhaps 60 (in recognition of the staff skills starting on 10 currently) but not so high that it actually became worthwhile for someone to rookie reset just to get higher staff skills. This way new players still have to work to raise it up, but they won't start at the bottom of the pile.
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#37 objavljeno 26 Stu 2019, 18:46:40
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Quote ( Alex Holland @ November 26th 2019,00:59:45 ) The question, is that good for the game?
Is it good for all managers relegating to rookie to have their untrainables reset every time? Rookie reset used to affect over half of the managers every season but that is okay. Resetting a few experienced retired manager coming back to the game is bad. I pick having my untrainables reset once on returning to the game over having them reset every season.
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#38 objavljeno 26 Stu 2019, 19:11:04
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I think you appear to be deliberately missing Alex's point Stefan:
If a manager relegates to rookie deliberately, or does not promote from rookie deliberately (and thus gets reset in both cases), then they know the consequences of that action every season - and therefore are voluntarily accepting the untrainable reset. So no problem to reset them....
If a manager gets relegated to rookie (or stays there) by ACCIDENT, then let's be quite honest, given how difficult it is nowadays to NOT retain in amateur, or to NOT promote from rookie if trying, then that manager is clearly not very good at the game - so loss of untrainables is really not something they need to worry about as a priority!
Either way - they are staying in the game.....which has to be a good thing for the longevity of the game.....
However - if a long term manager leaves for a period (due to real life issues or whatever), and then never returns because they can't face the battle to get their untrainables back (over the next 4+ years), then that is a manager who will never play the game again - and a potential paying customer lost for Vlad.
The two bits - which you are refusing to accept are totally separate issues, are totally different. Trying to treat them as similar is just wrong.
For the record - I actually agree with you that I wouldn't particularly like to see Alex's proposal implemented (certainly not with the 'pay credits to keep untrainables' model) - but your arguments are not applicable to the original proposals IMO.
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#39 objavljeno 26 Stu 2019, 20:20:52
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Everybody can't avoid relegating to rookie. Almost half of the managers is forced to reset every season. Somehow you think how that lower half is treated is not important, that they deserve to be reset. Kick on the already fallen ones. My guess is that lots more people leave the game by the lack of feeling any lasting progress than by fear of later losing it returning to the game.
I think the two questions are very related - player progress. And I'll show you how very related they are...
The point I tried to make but intentionally left out is: Why exclude relegated rookies and not adding them also to this proposal? Let all managers speed up their development until they reach their collected values.
Btw, non-supporters generates money to the game also through ads.
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