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Začetnik Tema: Bugs and possible bugs 4826 odgovora
Andrea Squizzato
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Stari post #4801 objavljeno 1 Kol 2020, 10:01:18 (zadnji uredio1 Kol 2020, 10:01:39 od Andrea Squizzato) Citat 
Quote ( Luca Sarra @ August 1st 2020,09:28:06 )

Possible bug in last race (hungaroring S77R5 rookie87). At the beginning of lap 77 the driver in first position had a Tyre puncture and didn't finish the race. He made only 76 laps. But in the final ranking he is in the first position. Is it possible? Could you check the race?
thank you

here the link to the race
/it/racescreen.asp?Group=Rookie%20-%2087

Ouch! Very weird: he was leading by 1 lap on everyone, but since he failed on lap 76 I would expect him to finish where the old race screen puts him. Nice bug I guess! Even race summary shows him in first position. Rerun and rain stops in lap 6?
Tibor Szuromi
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Stari post #4802 objavljeno 1 Kol 2020, 10:07:46 (zadnji uredio1 Kol 2020, 10:10:40 od Tibor Szuromi) Citat 
Quote ( Andrea Squizzato @ August 1st 2020,10:01:18 )

Rerun and rain stops in lap 6?
Rerun and rain stops in lap 3. I see this.


I became unsure.


Harsh Sheth
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Stari post #4803 objavljeno 1 Kol 2020, 10:33:13 (zadnji uredio1 Kol 2020, 10:46:32 od Harsh Sheth) Citat 
Quote ( Luca Sarra @ August 1st 2020,09:28:06 )

Possible bug in last race (hungaroring S77R5 rookie87). At the beginning of lap 77 the driver in first position had a Tyre puncture and didn't finish the race. He made only 76 laps. But in the final ranking he is in the first position. Is it possible? Could you check the race?
thank you

here the link to the race
/it/racescreen.asp?Group=Rookie%20-%2087


Oooh it finally happened :P Just not at Indy sadly.

Quote ( Harsh Sheth @ February 10th 2020,18:46:32 )

Only a matter of time before someone DNFing will end up either winning Indy or breaking the engine =)


E: So usually how DNFs are dealt with is that your lap time every lap once you are out is 2 times your race leader's lap time (in other words, your gap from the race leader increases by the race leader's lap time in every lap, which makes sense). In this case, the race leader themselves DNFed, I was not sure how the game engine would reaction is this sort of situation. Apparently they simply used the second place person's lap time instead of race leader's lap time. So in this case, the race leader's lap time was 2 times the lap time of the person in second place, thus reducing the gap between the leader and second place by the lap time of the second place person every lap.
Mark Pinnick
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Stari post #4804 objavljeno 1 Kol 2020, 11:06:15 (zadnji uredio1 Kol 2020, 11:08:19 od Mark Pinnick) Citat 
Never mind,
Ethan Littlejohns
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Stari post #4805 objavljeno 1 Kol 2020, 11:25:05 Citat 
Quote ( Andrea Squizzato @ August 1st 2020,10:01:18 )

Rerun and rain stops in lap 6?


The only sensible solution. :p
Ania Piekarska
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Stari post #4806 objavljeno 1 Kol 2020, 12:31:11 Citat 
Quote ( Harsh Sheth @ August 1st 2020,10:33:13 )

Oooh it finally happened :P Just not at Indy sadly.
IIRC it happened at Indy too.
/gb/RaceSummary.asp?Season=74&Race=10&sort=&orde...
The race leader dropped out on lap 199 but still won the race.
Jasper Coosemans1
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Stari post #4807 objavljeno 2 Kol 2020, 00:27:42 Citat 
The best thing about this race is checking the old race viewer (tip: you have to scroll down a bit).

/RaceReplayHistory.asp?Season=77&Race=5&Group=Rookie...
Matías Alloatti
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Stari post #4808 objavljeno 2 Kol 2020, 00:51:01 (zadnji uredio2 Kol 2020, 00:51:50 od Matías Alloatti) Citat 
According to the old race viewer, after computing lap 75 the leader had a 1:37.197 gap to the 2nd place driver. Starting lap 76 the leader had a tyre puncture so he wasn't able to make any laptime on the last lap.
The 2nd place driver made 1:24.140 on that last lap, which reduced the gap to 13.057. Did the game considered that after completing lap 76 and since the 2nd place driver couldn't reduce enough the difference, the victory had to be granted to the DNF leader?

I know the engine computes the race lap by lap, so:

LAP 75 Gap 1:37.197
LAP 76 Leader laptime -none- / 2nd place driver laptime 1:24.140 -> Gap 13.057
LAP 77 race ended
Danilo Alberghetti
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Stari post #4809 objavljeno 3 Kol 2020, 00:41:32 Citat 
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ August 2nd 2020,00:27:42 )

The best thing about this race is checking the old race viewer (tip: you have to scroll down a bit).

/RaceReplayHistory.asp?Season=77&Race=5&Group=Rookie...

Ok I understand that the old viewer brings a gap of only 13 seconds for the manager who arrived 2nd but who won has not crossed the finish line on lap 77 by not completing the race. So should the verdict be accepted?
Bruno Cestino
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Stari post #4810 objavljeno 3 Kol 2020, 01:03:03 (zadnji uredio3 Kol 2020, 01:04:08 od Bruno Cestino) Citat 
How is it possible to win the race by retiring? Even Hamilton had to go for a lap with only 3 wheels.
The old viewer, in simplified mode, marks the first as "retired from the race".
/gb/RaceReplay_light.asp?Group=Rookie%20-%2087

How can you win without crossing the finish line?

Matías Alloatti
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Stari post #4811 objavljeno 3 Kol 2020, 01:03:27 Citat 
I think the problem here is that the game "had to compute lap 76 twice but didn't do it"

Watching the old race viewer, after computing lap 75, the leader had a gap of 1:37.197 (everyone else was lapped),

On lap 76 the leader had a DNF. Still the game ran lap 76 for "everyone else". After computing lap 76 the 2nd place driver reduced the gap to 13.057.

The problem here is that the 2nd place driver wasn't actually on lap 76, he was on his lap 75 and got unlapped after computing that lap 76 in which the leader had a DNF. So for him, he is starting his lap 76, not finishing it. But the game advanced to lap 77 and finished the race.

There should had been two instances for lap 76. One of those with the leader DNFing because of the tyre puncture while everyone else is lapped, and a second one with the 2nd place driver becoming the new race leader and completing lap 76.

But the game computes 77 laps no matter what so if you are 1 lap ahead and DNF on the last lap, no one will have "enough laps" to catch up and overtake you.
Josh Clark
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Stari post #4812 objavljeno 3 Kol 2020, 02:30:19 (zadnji uredio3 Kol 2020, 02:35:34 od Josh Clark) Citat 
I think (i don't know for sure) it makes sense to look at the race summary and race analysis as completely different entities. Seems more simple this way.

My understanding is the race summary, as well as the lap-by-lap show, the "gaps" to other cars, the "positions" in the race, are all calculated from the cummulative lap times from the race analysis. Meaning the "gaps" and "laps behind" and "positions" are all basically cosmetically added in afterwards.

For example,
Car1
Lap 1: 1:15.600
Lap 2: 1:15.400
Lap 3: 1:15.200.

Car2
Lap 1: 1:15.200
Lap 2: 1:16.000
Lap 3: 1:14:800

Lap 1, Car2 is "ahead" by 0.400s with a total time of 75.200s versus Car1's 75.600s.
Lap 2, Car1 is "ahead" by 0.200s with a total time of 151.000s versus Car2's 151.200s
Lap 3, Car2 is "ahead" by 0.200s with a total time of 226.000s versus Car1's 226.200s


Now that seems obvious. But once you get to the end of the race,

Imagine Car1 is on a total of 5700.000s on their lap 76.
Imagine Car2 is on a total of 5776.000s on their lap 76.

If Car1 crashes, its race time no longer makes any sense, since it will be even lower than it will have been had it completed the next lap. Hence why once a car has a race-ending incident, you will no longer be able to see their total race time anywhere. On the race viewer it will say - Out -, on the summary it will say Tyre Puncture or Technical Problems.

So instead to make it seem like it makes sense on the race summary and race screen, what actually happens (again, to my understanding) is people who crash get double the lap time of the car with the lowest total time, every subsequent lap, added to their total time to produce a made-up gap-to-leader, and therefore a position in the race. (or more specifically a "gap" to the first placed Elite car which is then compared to the rest of the group)






So in the R87 example,
on lap 76,
Paukku had a total time of 6472.311s (guy who crashed on L77)
López had a total time of 6569.508s (next lowest total time)

on lap 77,
Paukku crashes. His advantage over López is reduced to 13.057s
because López set a 84.140s lap time, increasing his total time to 6653.648
Paukku's total time increases by double that lap time, 6472.311 + 168.28 = 6640.591
The difference between which is 13.057.


Bit long winded, sorry.

For another example of this happening, you can also see F. Kiebler in Rookie 73 gaining twice the lap time of the leader when he went out on lap 73, comparing the leader's total time + Kiebler's in Lap 2, then in lap 73 comparing the leader's total time + the total time of the guy behind Kiebler, minus the gap to the car ahead. The difference between Kiebler's total time in those two laps is exactly double the leader's Lap 73 lap time.



Tl;dr,
Race summary = kinda artificially created using race analysis data
Race time = total cummulative laps from race analysis
Race position = that total time sorted by lowest first, every lap
If you crash your total time goes up by 2x the race leader's (car with lowest total time) lap time every lap.
Matías Alloatti
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Stari post #4813 objavljeno 3 Kol 2020, 16:30:41 Citat 
The double time perfectly explains the gap. We still have a problem which is the following:

In order for López to win the race, considering doubling his time for Paukku, López 84.140 lap time was too fast. A 97.197 time would have make it. Which doesn't make logical sense of course. but let me explain.

I'll take your figures:

Paukku had a total time of 6472.311s
López had a total time of 6569.508s

With a 97.197 lap time, López increases his time to 6569.508 + 97.197 = 6666.705
And Paukku with double time, 194.394, increases his time to 6569.508 + 194.394 = 6666.705

And López catches up.

I think the solution is not to artificially increase the time in double (if that's what the game actually does) but to consider if the second place driver is lapped by the lap the leader crashes and add as many lap times are necessary for the second place driver to unlap himself. That ensures that López actually overtakes Paukku and wins.
Malcolm Christiansen
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Stari post #4814 objavljeno 3 Kol 2020, 16:43:39 Citat 
Update the race viewer to include commentary saying they limped home if there is only a few km to go when they suffer the fault /puncture
Sébastien Boulanger
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Stari post #4815 objavljeno 3 Kol 2020, 18:08:07 (zadnji uredio3 Kol 2020, 18:09:08 od Sébastien Boulanger) Citat 
The solution is simple, the race end for every driver after the first cross the finish line, there is no lap time calculations who can make drivers competing after.
If they are drivers 2 laps behind and fight, when they cross the line right after winner, the race end for them and they can't fight during 2 laps.

In this case, the leader was out on last lap, #2 have to win, and the first finish right after the last who have really made the 77 laps.

It's the normality, but gpro have it's own logic 😂
Tibor Szuromi
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Stari post #4816 objavljeno 3 Kol 2020, 18:35:12 Citat 
Quote ( Sébastien Boulanger @ August 3rd 2020,18:08:07 )

It's the normality, but gpro have it's own logic 😂
Yes.
Matías Alloatti
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Stari post #4817 objavljeno 3 Kol 2020, 19:48:30 Citat 
Quote ( Sébastien Boulanger @ August 3rd 2020,18:08:07 )


In this case, the leader was out on last lap, #2 have to win, and the first finish right after the last who have really made the 77 laps.


That's why the game needs to calculate more laps to compensate the lapped drivers if the leader is out. Unfortunately, based on the old race viewer, it looks like the game only calculates 77 laps no matter where the drivers are.

When the leader dropped out, 75 laps were calculated. The leader actually did those 75 laps, the rest did only 74.
When lap 76 was calculated, the leader didn't do any time, he dropped out, everyone else finished their lap 75.
But after that, instead of calculating lap 76 again but for the 2nd place driver, the game jumped to lap 77 and finished the race.
There should had been one more lap calculation to allow the 2nd place driver to overtake the DNF leader and then take the 2nd place driver as the new leader in order to progress to lap 77 and finish the race.
Tibor Szuromi
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Stari post #4818 objavljeno jučer u 11:49:11 Citat 
Sponzor bug?

F-Secure Progress 85,9% Contested: yes (yellow, citrine) Est avg progress 73% (04.08.2020. before the race)

F-Secure notified us that they signed a deal with Phillip Bupp (04.08.2020. after the race)

Phillip Bupp pro20: 14th place.


I always made better progress in the trial.

With 2 negotiators, this cannot be. ... By 3 either.

??????


Alessandro Casagrande
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Stari post #4819 objavljeno jučer u 12:03:02 (zadnji urediojučer u 12:06:50 od Alessandro Casagrande) Citat 
Why do you think it's not possible with 3 negotiators?

73% average with 3 negotiators means a total of 219%. With you at 85.9% the other two together could be at 133.1%. So the guy who signed was a bit below 100% and the other one slightly above 33.1% before the race. Perfectly possibile.
Tomek Kiełpiński
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Stari post #4820 objavljeno jučer u 12:07:05 (zadnji urediojučer u 12:08:25 od Tomek Kiełpiński) Citat 
(85,9 + 100 + x)/3=73
x= 33,1

Edit: Allesandro is faster than me.
Tibor Szuromi
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Stari post #4821 objavljeno jučer u 12:17:36 (zadnji urediojučer u 12:27:25 od Tibor Szuromi) Citat 
Tx.

Looking at the whole story. I do not understand.
If someone entered 3rd. It should appear on average.

Sponsorship repairs are urgently needed.

Quote ( Sébastien Boulanger @ August 7th 2020,12:19:56 )

Average is average, you just don't know how many you are in negociations at same time ;)
I know.
Why a secret?
Quote ( Tomek Kiełpiński @ August 7th 2020,12:22:40 )

What if he joined at the very beginning?

It was green.
I joined, yellow.
3. joined, there will be no orange.

This may be.




Sébastien Boulanger
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Stari post #4822 objavljeno jučer u 12:19:56 Citat 
Average is average, you just don't know how many you are in negociations at same time ;)
Tomek Kiełpiński
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Stari post #4823 objavljeno jučer u 12:22:40 Citat 
Quote ( Tibor Szuromi @ August 7th 2020,12:17:36 )

If someone entered 3rd. It should appear on average.


What if he joined at the very beginning?
Alessandro Casagrande
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Stari post #4824 objavljeno jučer u 12:25:18 (zadnji urediojučer u 12:26:27 od Alessandro Casagrande) Citat 
Quote ( Tibor Szuromi @ August 7th 2020,12:17:36 )

Tx.

Looking at the whole story. I do not understand.
If someone entered 3rd. It should appear on average.

Sponsorship repairs are urgently needed.




You may see a change in the curve if someone entered at a later stage. But the third one could have entered together with the guy who signed. Or maybe their progress combined did not alter the average curve in an evident way.

P.S. This time Tomek was faster :)
Tibor Szuromi
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Stari post #4825 objavljeno jučer u 12:42:45 Citat 
In 23 races, max 33 progress can fit (very low prio).
Andy Goodall
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Stari post #4826 objavljeno jučer u 14:32:59 Citat 
Doesn't yellow mean you and 1 other manager and orange being you and more than 1 other manager?
Tibor Szuromi
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Stari post #4827 objavljeno jučer u 14:35:18 Citat 
Unfortunately not.
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