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Fórum téma Szavazás
Will you be taking the Covid 19 vaccine?
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Téma: Will you be getting the Covid Vaccine? |
262 válasz
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#91 Elküldve: 2021. január 6. 15:22:20
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Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ January 6th 2021,15:05:52 ) Quote ( Mark Witney @ January 6th 2021,09:25:51 )
One thing people overlook is how China dealt with it, no pussyfooting around, army straight in, a couple of months and it's over. A year later the rest of the world is a total mess, maybe freedom of speech , movement and expression aren't always the best way...
Too many people have the " it won't kill me so I don't care." attitude, its these self obsessed idiots that are causing most of the mess. It might well not kill them, but it might kill someone they supposedly care about. The only way to get back to "normal" is if people get vaccinated or if the various governments send the army in to enforce lockdown.
They also WELDED PEOPLE INTO THEIR HOMES
But seemingly saved plenty of lives into the bargain.... This where the balance needs to be struck.
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Admittedly I've not done an awful lot of research into this, but at this stage I haven't considered getting the vaccine.
I'm certainly wary of the implications of ensuring people voluntarily comply with the vaccine by guaranteeing their freedoms.
From my limited knowledge, my understanding is that vaccines take years to develop because that's how long it takes to know definitively that they won't produce unwanted and potentially serious complications of their own, years and decades down the road.
My other thought (which judging by peoples responses I'm started to suspect may well be wrong) - I see a lot of people saying they would get it to protect their loved ones more than anything.
I figured it would be a case of the vaccine making you immune from the illness it causes but not immune from carrying the transmittable virus itself. Can someone confirm this to be true, one way or the other?
Frankly if the vaccine were not to prevent transmission, only illness, as a young healthy person myself I would accept the risk of getting sick over a rushed vaccine that will in all likelyhood not be required for me to survive.
As an older person with less years on the clock, obviously the vaccine makes a lot more sense in that scenario.
If the vaccination were to also give the ability to repel transmission from other infected people, only then for mine does it make a lot of sense for young people to get it.
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#93 Elküldve: 2021. január 6. 15:26:19
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Quote ( Armin van Hülkenburg @ January 6th 2021,15:24:26 ) Admittedly I've not done an awful lot of research into this, but at this stage I haven't considered getting the vaccine.
I'm certainly wary of the implications of ensuring people voluntarily comply with the vaccine by guaranteeing their freedoms.
From my limited knowledge, my understanding is that vaccines take years to develop because that's how long it takes to know definitively that they won't produce unwanted and potentially serious complications of their own, years and decades down the road.
My other thought (which judging by peoples responses I'm started to suspect may well be wrong) - I see a lot of people saying they would get it to protect their loved ones more than anything.
I figured it would be a case of the vaccine making you immune from the illness it causes but not immune from carrying the transmittable virus itself. Can someone confirm this to be true, one way or the other?
Frankly if the vaccine were not to prevent transmission, only illness, as a young healthy person myself I would accept the risk of getting sick over a rushed vaccine that will in all likelyhood not be required for me to survive.
As an older person with less years on the clock, obviously the vaccine makes a lot more sense in that scenario.
If the vaccination were to also give the ability to repel transmission from other infected people, only then for mine does it make a lot of sense for young people to get it.
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#94 Elküldve: 2021. január 6. 15:26:43
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Yeah that wasn't the edit button
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#95 Elküldve: 2021. január 6. 15:37:13
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Quote ( Kevin Fortin @ January 6th 2021,00:29:29 ) I wonder if everyone was thinking the same thing when the Polio vaccine was made available?
Are you aware the polio vaccine took 20+ years to be developed and properly tested? Also, polio is a disease which have sequels for life, unlike covid, which is a mild disease with a 99% early treatment cure.
So they're VERY different. But sure, when I think I can trust it, I'll have it. Just not now, it's too early for me, no long term studies whatsoever. And a lot of side effects so far.
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Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ January 6th 2021,14:51:48 ) In this whole debate, there's no reference to non-Corona patients whose medical procedures have been put on hold due to the medical staff and overall hospital capacity being stretched to it's limits tending to Corona patients
lol pay attention I have mentioned it multiple times
Quote ( Peter Willmore @ January 6th 2021,13:27:49 ) as I said before it's also about indirect deaths
Quote ( Peter Willmore @ January 6th 2021,09:31:47 ) you then need to consider the potential indirect deaths, if this is allowed to spiral out of control.
Quote ( MG van Rensburg @ January 6th 2021,13:47:16 ) Like to see about the 40%. Sources/statistics I've had access to have had that rate alot higher, over double. Not sure reason, but you're excluding the two/three of the most significant co-morbidities on your list which, considering how many of the annual deaths they contribute worldwide I find kinda odd, so curious about the source information, and potential misrepresentation? as have seen quite a few try ignore heart disease, age and obesity for reason I can only guess.
I ignored the one's which aren't lived with easily day in day out
the statistics are here
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas...
Quote ( Torge Thorsson @ January 6th 2021,14:53:50 ) German government is thinking about extending the time period for the 2nd dose
from 3 weeks to 12 weeks. Do we have analysis about this impact from the pharmaceutical company ?
They have already said they are doing this in the UK, as for the science I believe they are saying there is a reduced efficency but I guess they are working on the basis of short term gain to get the european countries through winter and into the spring when the pressure on health services drops off after the winter
Quote ( Jaime Sinclair @ January 6th 2021,15:37:13 ) Are you aware the polio vaccine took 20+ years to be developed and properly tested? Also, polio is a disease which have sequels for life, unlike covid, which is a mild disease with a 99% early treatment cure
You realise we almost a 100 years since they started developing the polio vaccine and science has moved on quite a bit since then , also this is not a totally new thing, not to mention there was an unprecedented co-operation by the science community around the world, along with the fact that they were keeping the regulators updated feeding them data throughout the trials rather than presenting at the end of the trials which then all that data had to be worked through and questions/problems assessed rectified , all of this was done in real time rather than after trials.
Also the key is in the full name of the virus SARS-CoV-2 , SARS was almost 2 decades ago, Also Mers was almost a decade ago , also Coronavirus's have been studied for 50 years , so it's not like it was fully unknown, scientist have been working on this kind of virus for decades.
Out of interest do you have a flu vaccine each year? , if so you realise they are developed each year it's not the same one right?
Quote ( Jaime Sinclair @ January 6th 2021,15:37:13 ) Also, polio is a disease which have sequels for life, unlike covid, which is a mild disease with a 99% early treatment cure.
Actually an issue with covid is long covid, not to mention any longer term effects for people who have only suffered a mild version, not to mention again the indirect deaths if this was allowed to run rampant
Quote ( Jaime Sinclair @ January 6th 2021,15:37:13 ) And a lot of side effects so far.
I would love to see any reputable source for that
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#97 Elküldve: 2021. január 6. 16:07:06
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Of course not. Because here in the third world we won't have any vaccines in a very long time, while first world countries bought enough to vaccinate their population several times if wanted, but their people are debating whether to get it or not.
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#98 Elküldve: 2021. január 6. 16:07:29
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Quote ( Henri Svensson @ January 6th 2021,09:24:56 ) Anyone that will not take the vaccin is the cause of delaying the stop of the pandemic.
More people will die and if you want that on your conscience... you are cruel.
Nonsense. If you want to take it go ahead and take it. Don't try to force it on others because "oh, see, now the blood is in your hands". I live alone, I take care when going outside and I do all of they told me to do to prevent contagion and/or spreading of the virus. If it's up to me to choose whether to take this shot, I'll choose and no one else has anything to do with it.
So you want everybody to take it just because you'll take it. That's cruel.
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#99 Elküldve: 2021. január 6. 16:15:53
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ January 6th 2021,16:07:06 ) Of course not. Because here in the third world we won't have any vaccines in a very long time, while first world countries bought enough to vaccinate their population several times if wanted, but their people are debating whether to get it or not.
this is literally one of the aims of the Oxford/Astrazeneca Vaccine and the covax plan, with regards to countries by enough to vaccinate their population several times over is only the case if all the vaccines in trial were successfull.
I guess it's called hedging your bets but I refer you back to the Covax plan which goal
Quote ( Jaime Sinclair @ January 6th 2021,16:07:29 )
Nonsense. If you want to take it go ahead and take it. Don't try to force it on others because "oh, see, now the blood is in your hands". I live alone, I take care when going outside and I do all of they told me to do to prevent contagion and/or spreading of the virus. If it's up to me to choose whether to take this shot, I'll choose and no one else has anything to do with it.
So you want everybody to take it just because you'll take it. That's cruel.
Fair enough but if that's the case, in my opinion it's everyone elses choice whether you should be able to access their business etc
Quote ( Jaime Sinclair @ January 6th 2021,16:07:29 ) , I'll choose and no one else has anything to do with it.
Apart from anyone you kill or hospitalise if you catch and infect them
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Quote ( Armin van Hülkenburg @ January 6th 2021,15:24:26 ) I figured it would be a case of the vaccine making you immune from the illness it causes but not immune from carrying the transmittable virus itself. Can someone confirm this to be true, one way or the other?
Former, I don't think it can stop you from being a carrier.
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No, I wont.
Why?
1)Its not tested enough.
2) Its just a flu, not Ebola or Antrax.
3) The majority of "covid" reported deaths that the news daily thow at us are people that die WITH covid, not FROM covid. Any intrahospitalary pneumonia could kill an old patient with complications just as effectively. Im not saying that all cases are like that, but I know of many. I also know cases like a 90 year old woman with 4 pneumonia in her clinic history who had Covid with no symptoms.
Also, I think the numbers are certainly pumped up because of (3). I refuse to jump into a paranoia trend.
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Quote ( Peter Willmore @ January 6th 2021,16:15:53 ) Quote ( Edwin Silva @ January 6th 2021,16:07:06 )
Of course not. Because here in the third world we won't have any vaccines in a very long time, while first world countries bought enough to vaccinate their population several times if wanted, but their people are debating whether to get it or not.
this is literally one of the aims of the Oxford/Astrazeneca Vaccine and the covax plan, with regards to countries by enough to vaccinate their population several times over is only the case if all the vaccines in trial were successfull.
I guess it's called hedging your bets but I refer you back to the Covax plan which goal
Quote ( Jaime Sinclair @ January 6th 2021,16:07:29 )
Nonsense. If you want to take it go ahead and take it. Don't try to force it on others because "oh, see, now the blood is in your hands". I live alone, I take care when going outside and I do all of they told me to do to prevent contagion and/or spreading of the virus. If it's up to me to choose whether to take this shot, I'll choose and no one else has anything to do with it.
So you want everybody to take it just because you'll take it. That's cruel.
Fair enough but if that's the case, in my opinion it's everyone elses choice whether you should be able to access their business etc
Quote ( Jaime Sinclair @ January 6th 2021,16:07:29 )
, I'll choose and no one else has anything to do with it.
Apart from anyone you kill or hospitalise if you catch and infect them
Of course business owners have the right to decide whether they want my money or not. It's totally up to them.
How can I "infect and kill" someone living alone and taking ALL the precautions WHO told me to take, and them some more? I'm curious. Did you even read before posting?
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Just to add some facts here rather than any conjecture, or rumour, all of the vaccines produced thus far are based on work that began in 2002 on SARS, as Covid is a variant of the same virus, so there is the best part of 20 years of research into this already. It is also an mRNA vaccine, so does not contain any of the infectious elements of the virus itself, just the RNA sequence required for your own body to recognise and produce the antigens required to fight the virus
Also, the efficiency as stated by the manufacturers is based on community immunisation, not individual.
So whilst an individual with the vaccine is far less likely to be infected, or seriously affected, by the virus, they will not be immune from catching it or passing it on to others. That's why it's important for as many people as possible to have the vaccine, to reduce the overall risk to the general population. And that is true of all vaccines, not just the Covid vaccines
By choosing to not have the vaccine, you are actually reducing the overall efficiency, so instead of 90%+ as in some of the stated figures, and using the poll figures in this thread as an example and if everyone who voted yes was vaccinated and those who voted no were not, the overall efficiency amongst GPRO members would be somewhere around 65% or less
My personal opinion: Would I take the vaccine if offered? Absolutely.
I've seen what it can do to people first hand, people who were previously young, fit, active and healthy, and now can't walk up a flight of stairs without getting out of breath, months after having had it
I've also seen the families mourning loved ones who passed well before they would have done otherwise, both because of Covid and because of the impact of Covid (cancelled operations and such)
If you choose not to have it, that is your right, but please do consider that there are implications to you catching Covid as an individual that could well be with you for the rest of your life, even if it doesn't kill you
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So, um, about that age demographic...... some 90% of deaths over the age of 60 years old. Somewhere between 50-60% of total deaths above 80 yearsold.
Yeah, Im not sure how you coming to just 40% of co-morbidity. Age itself is such a factor and its pretty much accounting for the deaths according to that data you sharing.
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i'll take it only if it is indeed mandatory..
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Yep, examples of the double standards I keep speaking of. All this irresponsible behaviour being given a blind eye, but damn... any mention of debate over vaccines or data of deadliness and oh boy... you a cruel murderer..
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Quote ( Armin van Hülkenburg @ January 6th 2021,15:24:26 ) I figured it would be a case of the vaccine making you immune from the illness it causes but not immune from carrying the transmittable virus itself. Can someone confirm this to be true, one way or the other?
Quote ( Sudeep Pednekar @ January 6th 2021,16:24:40 )
Former, I don't think it can stop you from being a carrier.
Quote ( Ian Brooks @ January 6th 2021,17:01:59 ) So whilst an individual with the vaccine is far less likely to be infected, or seriously affected, by the virus, they will not be immune from catching it or passing it on to others. That's why it's important for as many people as possible to have the vaccine, to reduce the overall risk to the general population. And that is true of all vaccines, not just the Covid vaccines
This is the part that confuses me. By all means I'd like to understand your viewpoint.
If the vaccinated are not immune from catching it or passing it onto other (perhaps more vulnerable) people, why does it matter that as many people get vaccinated or not?
Surely the only reason you would have to get it is to protect yourself from getting sick?
It doesn't make sense to me how getting the vaccine protects anyone but myself if I can still pick it up and transfer it onto others. Playing devils advocate (and ignoring the after affects of COVID), I would think that being a vaccinated carrier may mean that you miss the potential warning signs of sickness that would help ensure you were isolated from everyone sooner rather than later.
I'd probably be encouraging older people and others with more-than-minor preexisting health conditions to be getting it, and people under the age of 35 to be vigilant and have access to the vaccine if they so wish.
EDIT: The only way it makes sense to me is if you're suggesting that having the vaccine makes you somehow less likely to catch it
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i'm only 25 and i have never had symptons.
i'm ok
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Quote ( Bradley Preen @ January 6th 2021,18:29:27 ) i'm only 25 and i have never had symptons.
i'm ok
I think you got that figure by adding up the ages of each of your 5 DA's.
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Armin, the reason vaccinated people aren't considered dangerous is due to the virus being attacked by the immune system, in an early stage of infection or even before cells are penetrated.
This renders the virus unable to rapidly replicate, and thus greatly reduces the risk of spreading. Because if there's almost nothing TO spread, it is almost impossible to actually spread it.
This reduces the R number (amount of people that a single infected person infects on average) immensely and stops a virus from going around quickly.
You won't stop the virus from existing, but you are inhibiting its movement.
And that, my friends, is why a vaccine works.
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#114 Elküldve: 2021. január 6. 19:00:11 (módosítva: 2021. január 6. 19:02:02 Ian Brooks által)
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Quote ( Armin van Hülkenburg @ January 6th 2021,18:10:41 ) This is the part that confuses me. By all means I'd like to understand your viewpoint. If the vaccinated are not immune from catching it or passing it onto other (perhaps more vulnerable) people, why does it matter that as many people get vaccinated or not? Surely the only reason you would have to get it is to protect yourself from getting sick? It doesn't make sense to me how getting the vaccine protects anyone but myself if I can still pick it up and transfer it onto others. Playing devils advocate (and ignoring the after affects of COVID), I would think that being a vaccinated carrier may mean that you miss the potential warning signs of sickness that would help ensure you were isolated from everyone sooner rather than later. I'd probably be encouraging older people and others with more-than-minor preexisting health conditions to be getting it, and people under the age of 35 to be vigilant and have access to the vaccine if they so wish. EDIT: The only way it makes sense to me is if you're suggesting that having the vaccine makes you somehow less likely to catch it
The vaccine reduces your individual chances of infection significantly, and you can reduce the overall chance of infection in a group of people by vaccinating as many as possible. The more people you vaccinate, the lower the overall risk for everyone. Does that help explain it?
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Wonderful, I've learned something today :)
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Quote ( Armin van Hülkenburg @ January 6th 2021,19:02:48 ) Wonderful, I've learned something today :)
Quite a feat in this snakepit of tinfoil-hattery! You have my respect, sir!
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At least you are sensible people who don't react badly to asking reasonable questions
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Quote ( Peter Willmore @ January 6th 2021,15:40:26 ) lol pay attention I have mentioned it multiple times
Fair enough, Peter, my bad ...
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No vaccine if it is not mandatory. I don't feel old sick or with preconditions to get the hard case.
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I rather die for vaccine than in endless lockdown. But it seems that even if I took the vaccine, I would still die in lockdown. Thanks 32 %.
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