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Téma: Russia has attacked Ukraine! |
18311 válasz
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Quote ( Pedro Lopes @ April 3rd 2022,17:31:44 ) there was a russian city that was bombed.
Yesterday, with the help of two helicopters, similar in silhouette to the Mi-24 (almost certainly they were), an oil depot in Belgorod, a relatively large city near Kharkov, was attacked. I want to emphasize that civilian infrastructure was not attacked.
And here the most interesting begins, which I will write about later, perhaps tomorrow, when I bring all the material together. Also, in this context, I will express my opinion on why we do not attack the territory of Russia or Belarus, from which missiles fly.
Thank you for your concern, I am relatively well (at least physically) and relatively safe.
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Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ April 3rd 2022,13:30:26 ) Have you personally lived in this "authoritarian state" or have your media and those Russians who ran away to you told you all this?
I did...living in Soviet block behind the barbed wire fence to forbid own people to escape , armed soldiers with orders to shoot their natives if they try to escape, jailed if you disagree with regime... propagande since kindergarden...Life, where you are tought since your childhood by your parents, what you should say and what you should avoid to say in public...
no thank you..never more..keep it behind that fence and do not dare to spread that sick mentality again... That is a good system for people, who see no value in human lives...
Based on what you write, it seems like tailorized for you, Dmitry..
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Quote ( Pedro Lopes @ April 3rd 2022,17:31:44 ) Ihor and Serhiy...
I hope you are, and remain OK.
Beside that, why do you think your army didn't attack some russian territory
Well, as I was typing this message I watched on the news that yesterday there was a russian city that was bombed. Ukranians deny the responsability of the attack.
Pedro Lopes (Amateur Group - 2) You have touched upon a rather difficult issue for both peace-loving Europeans! I would like most people to read it! War is the best way to unite society, especially for totalitarianism! Let me remind you that all the greatest inventions were created either during the war or for the war! Example - the Internet, dynamite! During the war, people do not think about themselves - people live for the victory of their state! Russia's militarization has reached its peak! Therefore, we need every reason for society to work for war! This is Bismarck's theory! Read the story! Any provocation unites the people to resist! This is what Putin is trying to do! He wants the Russians to see what exactly they were attacked - they are waging war against them! This will make it possible to mobilize new people for war! The provocation in Belgorod, to which Ukraine has nothing to do, is aimed at militarizing society! Putin wants to continue to fight - not only against Ukraine, but also against Europe! Putin needs soldiers! Putin needs a war! Putin will do anything to continue the war! And our task is to stop him!
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@Tomas Dederle (R86) Thank you for your donations. Choose wisely, and make sure your money ends up helping those in need (this is sometimes a difficult task) or continue to contribute in other ways you can, if you can of course. Don't assume that everyone who doesn't brag about donating is not doing the same. I'm not dictating anyone, I'm just writing an opinion. Telling me to stop playing Putin is offensive, but I guess we are on the same side, so there is no point in feeding this discussion.
Quote ( Mick Ridley @ April 3rd 2022,02:31:00 ) However, we are not actually racing at the Sochi racetrack, please keep in mind, that this only a money management game that we are playing.
This is a community of tens of thousands of users, many of them Ukrainian and who, with good reason, do not want to see any symbols associated with the war they are experiencing.
It makes no diference if it is an online game or my neighborhood club with 20 elements...For me, reading that the administration of this community is neutral is a little sad, that's all.
And I will Stop here.
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Quote ( Aigars Vitolins @ April 3rd 2022,09:35:19 ) @Dmitry Knyazev (M3)
how will you comment the civilian killings in Bucha? You can do a quick search even with yandex.ru - so that should not be biased then?
He believes these news what komsomolskaya pravda writes.
The story: Why the "Buchan Massacre" is a fake
https://www.kp.ru/daily/27374.5/4567342/
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Quote ( Mick Ridley @ April 3rd 2022,02:31:00 )
However, we are not actually racing at the Sochi racetrack, please keep in mind, that this only a money management game that we are playing.
... I'm not going to race on tuesday.
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The text is not mine but it seems to me it is quite logical and after Bucha the puzzle was formed. Please read this, everyone is free to make own conclusions.
I submit the text according to the principle "as is"
***
GENOCIDE OF UKRAINIANS 2022
Another serious but important post to understand.
We simulate the situation:
1. Russia is convinced that it will not meet resistance in Ukraine, it will take Kyiv in three days, and the rest of the country in a maximum of a few weeks.
2. On February 23, the Security Service of Ukraine reported that 45,000 bags for corpse had been purchased by the Katsaps. https://cutt.ly/aD3Szyo
3. We have evidence of the presence of mobile crematoria in Ukraine and the border regions of Russia and Belarus. https://cutt.ly/eD3SY8t
4. The Russian military was immediately followed by the Rosguard, which was to suppress the uprising in the captured cities, such as Kherson.
5. Bloody pigs (Russians) in September approved the NATIONAL STANDARD FOR mass graves.
Detail description of standard: https://cutt.ly/wD3SGNO
6. We all saw photos from Bucha.
Naturally, neither sacks nor crematoria were planned for Russian soldiers. The command did not expect such losses.
We add two and two together. What plan do we have?
Pigs come to Ukraine hope that people's will meet they with flowers> Pigs seize power> Pigs commit genocide of the proactive part of the population
With flowers did not work, with power too. However, these villains have already committed mass killings of Ukrainians in several cities. We must not allow this to continue.
Everyone on the planet should be aware that this is not a conflict in Eastern Europe. We are talking about the deliberate destruction of the Ukrainian nation. Suppression of forty million people. About "final closing of the Ukrainian question".
Our Russophobia will never be enough. We are fighting. Glory to Ukraine!
***
From myself I can add that despite the fact that most of the links are Ukrainian sources, they were published long before the attack and the Ukrainian side simply could not know how events would
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The BBC news agency has debunked the fake Russian propaganda. On Sunday, April 3, Russia announced that its military had completely left Bucha on March 30. However, on April 1, the Zvezda TV channel of the Russian Ministry of Defense, citing the commander of one of the Marine Corps units, Alexei Shabulin, reported that "Russian marines are cleaning up settlements" in the direction of Gostomel - Bucha - Ozera "with the further task of gaining a foothold in them."
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⚡️51% of Russians are “proud” of Russia’s war against Ukraine.
Another 14% experience joy and elation.
In total, at least 65% of Russians were in favor of a war against Ukraine.
Only 5% feel shame
Poll Levada Center.
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Dmitry, I think the simple fact that all of the countries which were under the USSR banner, pre 1990, choose to stay with europe and not go under the "sphere of influence" Russia speaks volumes. Certainly a few would have sided that way if Russia was such a wonderful country in their memory. As soon as the iron curtain came down they all left despite knowing Russian benefits well. Or should we say because they understood Russian dominance well.
I can no longer believe any russian state media, when it gives out details of satisfaction with putins leadership. If he had allowed the open media there to stay free I could have at least understood and accepted their posts. Instead Putin has cracked down on any freedoms with respect to the war reporting and in his own words, told the nation that any reporting, other than official doctrine, would be met with force and jail. This is no longer news reporting but propaganda reporting. None if us are not saying that Ukraine is not using some of their own, but at least they allow free reporters to be there and see the war through their own eyes and report as they see it.
I think what the terrible trio do not understand, is that loyalty to Putin is a one way street. He has no loyalty to you. Only to himself and his closest allies. Putin does not care if 500, 5000 or 50,000 russian soldiers have to die, as long as he accomplishes what he wants. He does not care one bit for the average Russian on the street. In his own words he said he would never stop thinking of Ukrainians as his own people and part of Russia. Is this what he does to people he loves and thinks of as his own? Or, is this really how he thinks of all russians and how he can shell, shoot and kill them, just because he wants more control.
I have said it before. You guys are like dogs on a leash, where the owner will use you to attack others for his own gain. Whether you get hurt or killed is irrelevant to him because he is a sociopath who only views the end he seeks. He does not care who gets hurt along the way. In the end, he will never pay the price that the average russian on the street will pay because of his views. It is much the same with Hitler, who only saw his dream and did not care how many people had to die to achieve it.
I proposed passive resistance before and I still see it as a valid way out. Even Putin cannot jail everyone in the end. There would just not be enough room to lock up everyone. Freedom is a frail thing and must be fought for in whatever way you can oppose tyranny. I realise nationalists can no longer view the situation rationally, because they are caught up in the near religious fervor of nationalism.
Ukraine has democratic elections and widely is supported and fought for by those brave people despite a massive aggressor, who "should" have walked over them. Russia is both nationalistic and socialist. The Nazi were the German Nationalist Socialists party. It seems that if there is any need to fight Nazi's that you should be looking at your own leaders, not a tiny fraction of one wing of the Ukrainian army. Putin only uses this word to stir up more nationalism in his country when the devil is really in your own back yard.
I look forward to the day when Russia can be a free and open country. A strong member of the world community and not afraid of everyone around them. This will only happen if the people take the power from their leaders and demand a better way of living, much the same way the Ukrainian people did it. It has happened before in Russia and can happen again as long as their is the courage to stand up to the bully. Failure to do so will result in much the same result as we saw in Germany at the end of WW2. We are already seeing younger people leaving Russia for hopes of a better life abroad. Before long Putin will close that avenue, claiming more propaganda lies that it somehow hurts Russia and is the fault of the Americans, Brits...west in general.
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Quote ( Alex Holland @ April 4th 2022,07:38:42 ) Ukraine has democratic elections and widely is supported and fought for by those brave people despite a massive aggressor, who "should" have walked over them. Russia is both nationalistic and socialist. The Nazi were the German Nationalist Socialists party. It seems that if there is any need to fight Nazi's that you should be looking at your own leaders, not a tiny fraction of one wing of the Ukrainian army. Putin only uses this word to stir up more nationalism in his country when the devil is really in your own back yard.
Everything is so and even much deeper / worse. I have not abused other people's messages all this time and do not intend to do so in the future. But today I want to show you one more thing. Which, in some way, correlates with yesterday's text about the genocide.
The veracity of yesterday text - is based on logical consistency, and not on direct evidence (please understand this), will be supported if the fact is confirmed that the execution in the basements of people with their hands tied was not accidental. If it turns out that these people are not just those who fell under the arm or resisted, but were executed on a selective basis - according to the lists of volunteers, soldiers, activists, then this would be an undeniable genocide.
And now I want to show what they feed the Russians and what they feed themselves. The text is taken from one pro-Russian ideological telegram group with more 50k readers. I apologize to those Ukrainians who will find it difficult to read this.
***
When communicating with Ukrainians, we make the same mistake over and over again. Our opponents tell us: well, where did you see the Nazis in Ukraine. Their number is negligible.
Nationalist parties have minimal support. Nationalists are in the minority in parliament. The President is Jewish.
So let's figure it out. Who is a fascist in Ukraine and how many of them.
Our main mistake is that we identify the fascists by external signs: symbols, paraphernalia. Tattoos, slogans, stripes, portraits of leaders. There are certainly people who use all this there and there are not a few of them. But in the total mass they make up a small percentage.
But fascism is not an attribute. This is an ideology. This is what is invested in the head, and not what is applied to the body in the form of a tattoo. The ideology of the superiority of the nation over others. Belief that your nation is better than others. Ukrainians consider themselves better, smarter, more hardworking and bolder than Russians. Russians they consider stupid, drunk, dirty cattle. And which cannot forgive them that they are better in everything.
Since the very emergence of modern Ukraine, this ideology has been purposefully promoted. This is the myth of the Holodomor. This is the story invented with the money of Soros, the revival of Bandera. From Russia, year after year, they sculpted the image of the enemy. Everything Russian was purposefully eradicated and is still being eradicated. And it must be admitted that the seeds of this ideology fell on fertile soil. A generation has grown up that, even being often Russian by origin, hate everything Russian. Language, culture.
Back in 2014, I met a family of refugees from Donetsk. They left forever and did not intend to return. When communicating with them, I was then struck by one fact: they spoke with aspiration about Ukraine. I have repeatedly heard from them: we love Ukraine so much. It seemed strange to me then. Ukraine bombed them, forced them to leave forever (they settled in the Rostov region and are not going to return), but in their heads it exists in the form of something bright, kind. Ukraine is like a caring kind mother. In the future, I heard this thesis more than once. In addition to this bright image, another dark image was formed in parallel - terrible, evil Russia. Everything is in the compartment and forms the worldview of the modern resident of the Independent.
Summing up, I want to say that the majority of the population of modern Ukraine is fascists.
Ukraine is a fascist state with a fascist ideology. The denazification process is mandatory. And it should concern not only external paraphernalia or obvious carriers thereof. Denazification must have deep meaning. We need to eradicate this vicious ideology itself.
End.
***
That's what their soldiers come to our land with. They hate us because we love our Motherland, because we are. Because we remember our history.
Pay attention to the history of that family - Russian propagandists cannot understand that they really regret that they had to leave, and that they cannot return, because life in the so-called "liberated people's republics of Donetsk and Lugansk" is much worse even than in Russia.
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Quote ( Ihor Rusnak @ April 3rd 2022,15:01:00 ) Dmitry, here is a video in the best quality. Please look and make sure that you were wrong and your "experts" misled you.
"The corpse does not move its hand", this is a glare on the glass
Yes, in a better video it was confirmed that there is a drop on the windshield, and the view in the side mirror is a feature of such mirrors.
In the Russian media, they tell about the Trouble in detail.
A more detailed analysis is available here.
https://telegra.ph/Situaciya-v-Buche-CHto-bylo-na-samo-dele-04-03
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Quote ( Ihor Rusnak @ April 3rd 2022,14:29:00 ) So who are you, the Russians, in relation to themselves and their power - "trembling creatures or you have the right"?
If 80% support Putin, then who do you think should come out with protests?
7% who are against Putin?
And they do not argue here on the forum, because they often write such nonsense about modern Russia that everyone understands that it is useless to prove something to you.
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Quote ( Tomas Dederle @ April 3rd 2022,14:43:35 ) It is not only West. The whole the World is according to Russia wrong (except Syria, Erithrea, North Korea and Belarus) All the world with free access to information is brainwashed.
China, India, the Middle East, Africa, South America are countries that adhere to neutrality and do not impose sanctions.
Count how many people it is.
Unless, of course, you consider the inhabitants of Asia, Africa and South America to be people.
Do you know about BRICS?
Quote ( Tomas Dederle @ April 3rd 2022,14:43:35 ) And only Russia, where opposition is jailed or disappeared, where you have Roskomnadzor (free speech support agency?) forbiding access to facebook, youtube, twitter for ordinary Russians and soon all internet as planned
Do you think Facebook and Instagram are independent media?
Tell that to Trump. q
Can you watch at least one Russian TV program in a foreign language?
I can watch euronews in Russian on my TV.
You are more restricted in viewing our propaganda than in Russia.
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Quote ( Alex Holland @ April 4th 2022,07:38:42 ) Dmitry, I think the simple fact that all of the countries which were under the USSR banner, pre 1990, choose to stay with europe and not go under the "sphere of influence" Russia speaks volumes. Certainly a few would have sided that way if Russia was such a wonderful country in their memory. As soon as the iron curtain came down they all left despite knowing Russian benefits well. Or should we say because they understood Russian dominance well.
Everyone is looking where they are better off.
Or it seems that it is better. Most
likely, your ancestors also fled to Canada or the USA once upon a time. They
took over an entire continent, drove the indigenous people into reservations.
I'm not going to tell you about it now - this is your story and you will figure it out for yourself - who fled across the ocean, and who stayed.
Therefore, it is not entirely correct to draw conclusions about modern Russians based on the fact that the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991.
China has not collapsed, they still have a Communist party and apparently there is neither democracy nor freedom. Do you think that more than a billion people there are also brainwashed and brainwashed?
And India?
Your main problem is that you are all sure that your state structure is the most correct and correct.
Look at how many people in the world have not joined the sanctions. They're all watching and waiting to see if we can stand it or not.
Because they don't like your world order anymore.
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The war in Ukraine. Total estimated losses of Russian troops on April 4.
~ 18300 (+300) In the personnel
~ 1000 Prisoners
147 (+4) Aircraft
134 Helicopters
647 (+3) Tanks
1844 (+14) BBM
330 (+5) Artillery systems
54 Air Defense Means
107 (+2) MLRS
76 Fuel tanks
92 (+3) Operational and tactical UAVs
7 Ships and boats
1273 (+24) Automotive
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Quote ( Robert Kearney @ April 3rd 2022,17:45:52 ) Released by the Russian unit of propaganda president, Mr Dmitry Knyazev.
I understand you too.
When arguments end and there are no more words, insults begin.
My main difference from you and many Europeans is that I hear and try to understand the arguments from two sides - both from the Kremlin and from the West.
I compare them and draw conclusions.
You read and believe only one side - the Western media.
So which one of us is limited?
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Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ April 4th 2022,10:05:32 ) China, India, the Middle East, Africa, South America are countries that adhere to neutrality and do not impose sanctions.
Count how many people it is.
Unless, of course, you consider the inhabitants of Asia, Africa and South America to be people.
Do you know about BRICS?
Those countries ARE NOT supporting you.
Latest vote in UN says it all WITH YOU are only "Four countries -- Syria, Belarus, North Korea, and Eritrea -- joined Russia in voting against"
4 countries out 193 were voting the same as RUSSIA. The naked truth. Said truth. This tells you exactly where do you stand.
The resolution "demands an immediate cessation of the hostilities by the Russian Federation against Ukraine, in particular of any attacks against civilians and civilian objects."
This voting is however from 2 weeks ago. The bestiality of your regime and your KGB leaders you are tought to admire...made their popularity to suffer since then for sure. The war crimes are that evident now, that whoever supports them, is becoming a criminal himself.
https://www.rferl.org/a/united-nations-civilians-protection/...
Truth in Russia...I was unfortunately grown under that truth...My mother was pregnant with me when Russian troops invaded Czechoslovakia in 1968. They called it Brother´s help in Russia... Your army remained here not welcome for another 23 years, untill 1991
Russia spreads lies and fear...that was Russian policy and that is Russian policy. Surprisingly the fear brings the hate not love. And you ask Ukrainians why do they not love you? That they should throw away their hate? Dmitry, you give the world everyday the proof that there is not that much left in you to love...
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Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ April 4th 2022,09:56:59 ) If 80% support Putin
If 80% would actually know what he does, the numbers would be much different.
But there won't be that 'if', because we see how intellectual persons like you view current situation by taking into account critical thinking, today's technology.
Also that 80% number is just a number to play tricks on the ones who are in doubt.
Same as Alex said, I just wish that this day would come one day
Quote ( Alex Holland @ April 4th 2022,07:38:42 ) I look forward to the day when Russia can be a free and open country. A strong member of the world community and not afraid of everyone around them.
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Poland, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia will begin the process of complete isolation from Russia in the next 48-72 hours.
️Poland proposes to create a special international commission to investigate the events in Ukrainian Bucha
️After Russia's crimes in Buchi, the EU may impose an embargo on Russian oil and gas as early as this week. The ambassadors of the EU countries plan to discuss a package of new sanctions against Russia on April 6. - Financial Times
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Executions were part of Putin's plan to invade Ukraine, says MI6 head of British intelligence Richard Moore
“We knew that Putin’s plans for the invasion included extrajudicial executions by the military and intelligence agencies. Reports of executions of civilians coming from the liberated areas are horrifying and frightening,” wrote Richard Moore.
Bastards will answer for everything!
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The European Union may impose additional sanctions in the form of an embargo on Russian oil and gas as early as this week, which will be discussed on April 6. This decision is likely to hasten the effects of the Bucha atrocities. This was reported by the Financial Times.
"Ukraine has long demanded the introduction of such sanctions, but this was resisted by some" big European economies ", - the media writes.
The new list of restrictions could include the expansion of individual sanctions, a ban on the use of EU ports by Russian courts, and an embargo on exports of Russian goods and energy - oil and gas.
The day before, European Council President Charles Michel said that the EU was already preparing a response in the form of sanctions for Russian atrocities in the Kiev region.
Denmark has imposed a moratorium on the purchase of Russian oil.
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Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ April 4th 2022,10:24:37 ) Quote ( Robert Kearney @ April 3rd 2022,17:45:52 )
My main difference from you and many Europeans is that I hear and try to understand the arguments from two sides - both from the Kremlin and from the West.
Yes, you can see very well how you try to understand both sides.
When they show you facts,it's fake news and misinformation,while the data you bring,from the home of free journalism and tolerance of dissent,is the absolute truth.But do you really think anyone takes seriously the crap you've been posting since the beginning? Do you really want to give journalism lessons? You speaking from a country where if you wave a sign saying "Stop war" you risk 15 years in prison? Where journalists or politicians dissenting from the single thought are kidnapped, killed or poisoned? And in doing so don't you and all the other Putin ass-kissers feel ridiculous?
Do you really want to denazify Ukraine? Simple, just get all the Russians out of that territory and oops...denazified! Because in this story, you Russians are the fucking Nazis.
Greetings from the free world
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Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ April 4th 2022,10:24:37 ) My main difference from you and many Europeans is that I hear and try to understand the arguments from two sides - both from the Kremlin and from the West.
I think that everyone who followed your arguments can agree that if even you make conclusions, then they are false.
But you usually use ready-made information. Other than, that what you post here - just copying other people's thoughts - in the literal sense. And those opinions that are in your head are also copying other people's thoughts - only abstract. You read someone else's information, uncritically assimilate it, and later perceive it as true. You have reached such an extent that, intentionally or unconsciously (I bet on it), you ignore even the facts that are in front of you.
Tell me, please, what conclusions did you make about the "living corpses" and the maternity hospital in Mariupol. Did you carefully read my post and after that you re-watched the video about Mariupol that you posted yourself?
What are your thoughts on these two cases? Try to separate them and answer clearly and consistently. First of all for myself, and then for the forum.
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What conclusions can be made from the video
1. According to the locals, the Russians still had pre-prepared shoot lists (the man indirectly speaks about this when he talks about the fact that they came either for former military men or for activists). However, it still requires a more thorough investigation.
2. There are corpses, it is literally visible from the first few seconds. Dmitry, you continue to ignore the obvious.
3. A lot of crushed cars in the middle of the streets - indirectly - in them, most likely there were people. For a month in different places you can see how the Russians like to crush a passenger car with people with a tank. But maybe it's just crused barricade when russians was retreat. It's hard to tell from this video.
4. Video is cuted by pieces. This is a fact. Basically - shots from the city center. This can be seen from the NOVUS mall. In addition, apparently the sweep was from the north to the south. But this is also situational.
5. The bodies that can be seen on other videos from Bucha (those that "came to life") were not located in the center - there is no high-rise buildings - this is the outskirts with private houses. Sooner or later we will find out where it is. I think that the extreme north of the city is farther from Kyiv, since in one of the other videos the passenger of the car, who filmed the corpse, literally screams at the driver that he did not go further (the Russians retreated to the north).
6. Citizens are obviously glad to see the Ukrainian police and sappers.
Here is an example of conclusions that needs to be done, Dmitry. And the main one - is that the video from the central districts of the city does not in any way refute the crimes of the Russians - made in other districts.
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The head of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen said that they intend to send investigators to Bucha who will work in cooperation with the Prosecutor General's Office of Ukraine, Europol and Eurojust
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Quote ( Ihor Rusnak @ April 4th 2022,15:31:54 ) Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ April 4th 2022,11:31:58 )
The Ukrainian National Police enters Bucha on April 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvLlrUMl5zA
What conclusions can be made from the video
1. According to the locals, the Russians still had pre-prepared shoot lists (the man indirectly speaks about this when he talks about the fact that they came either for former military men or for activists). However, it still requires a more thorough investigation.
2. There are corpses, it is literally visible from the first few seconds. Dmitry, you continue to ignore the obvious.
3. A lot of crushed cars in the middle of the streets - indirectly - in them, most likely there were people. For a month in different places you can see how the Russians like to crush a passenger car with people with a tank. But maybe it's just crused barricade when russians was retreat. It's hard to tell from this video.
4. Video is cuted by pieces. This is a fact. Basically - shots from the city center. This can be seen from the NOVUS mall. In addition, apparently the sweep was from the north to the south. But this is also situational.
5. The bodies that can be seen on other videos from Bucha (those that "came to life") were not located in the center - there is no high-rise buildings - this is the outskirts with private houses. Sooner or later we will find out where it is. I think that the extreme north of the city is farther from Kyiv, since in one of the other videos the passenger of the car, who filmed the corpse, literally screams at the driver that he did not go further (the Russians retreated to the north).
6. Citizens are obviously glad to see the Ukrainian police and sappers.
Here is an example of conclusions that needs to be done, Dmitry. And the main one - is that the video from the central districts of the city does not in any way refute the crimes of the Russians - made in other districts.
The conclusions that must be done are if National Police were first to enter Bucha on 2 of April why didn't they show the bodies that were shown days after? You said that the shooting was cut. Yes and it starts in Gostomel, and there was the only body in the video. I asume that there could be bodies in Bucha too but why National Police didn't show it? They are supposed to patrol the whole city. . So why they didn't tell anything about raping, torturing etc?
What shoot lists are you talking about? Which minute in the video he is talking abou it? He said that there were two men one former policeman and other actual (we can't understand is he reffering to them as collaborators or russians that came for them). He told that his neighbour's son was Ukranian Army officer and some locals collaborators pointed where they lived. They broke in his house. Early in the morning they got into the basement where people were hiding and told them that they won't kill them and that they should open their houses' doors. When they got into the man's apartment they saw the ukranian flag and symbols, and took it out. Then the man thought they were going to shoot him but they brought him to commander who asked him why he had so many national symbols. He told them that he lives in Ukraine.
That's all.
So there were people who were helping russians, Have you thought what can happen to them when russians leave and ukranians gain back the control of the city?
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Probably, the education system, which does not teach to distinguish between questions and conclusions, is also a problem in Russia.
The previous sentence is an example of an indirect inference that is based on observed empirical data from this forum and beyond.
And now to the point.
Quote ( Vitaly Sevov @ April 4th 2022,17:05:17 ) The conclusions that must be done are if National Police were first to enter Bucha on 2 of April why didn't they show the bodies that were shown days after?
Photos from Bucha - bound bodies on the street, the corpse of the husband of Mayor Bucha in the sewer, burial in a mass grave - all this photo is from April 2. In the Ukrainian segment, they began to appear on the 2nd after lunch.
I even mentioned this when on the evening of the 2nd I urged and urge to cancel Sochi GP, or at least not to go to this race.
The fact that you saw a photo of Bucha on the 3rd or 4th does not mean that they appeared then. Or do you think that you in Russia get information faster than us?
Once again for those who are especially slow-witted - photo along the Bucha-Gostomel-Irpin line appeared on the 2nd.
Quote ( Vitaly Sevov @ April 4th 2022,17:05:17 ) Yes and it starts in Gostomel, and there was the only body in the video.
Yes, the beginning is from Gostomel, since there is not a triangle there, as your media say, but a line of three cities, see the map. But the main footage is from Buchi, it's not hard to install. And there were more corpses, but let's not argue on this topic - it's hard for me to play these shots in my head again.
As for why the official video about the cleansing - demining (this can be seen from the label on it) did not show explicit footage - a stupid question.
Quote ( Vitaly Sevov @ April 4th 2022,17:05:17 ) They are supposed to patrol the whole city. . So why didn't they tell anything about raping, torturing etc?
Shown - see the answer above.
Quote ( Vitaly Sevov @ April 4th 2022,17:05:17 ) Then the man thought they were going to shoot him but they brought him to the commander who asked him why he had so many national symbols. He told them that he lives in Ukraine.
This is not an accurate translation of what was said. The man said - I pass word for word:
"... the soldier asks - a patriot? Come here"
They are holding my mother, and they took me to be shot (nods somewhere, probably in the place of the alleged shoting). Then he (the Russian soldier) changed his mind about something, he said, let's go to the commander. Why do you have so many symbols of UA? I answer - well, I live in Ukraine".
And now about the possible lists - I spoke as carefully as possible in the post that you are quoting. And I am raising this topic not because the man on the video told, and not because I am trying to make the Russian army bloodthirsty, but because there is a lot of indirect information that testifies to this. About which I will not write.
Once again - I do not claim, but I assume that this is quite possible, referring not to direct confirmation and to many alternative sources not related to this war. Time will show. The culprits in Bucha have already been identified, if the GRU does not liquidate them, we will find out everything from the first mouth, if it liquidates them, we will still find out, but without direct inquiry.
Quote ( Vitaly Sevov @ April 4th 2022,17:05:17 ) Have you thought what could happen to them when russians leave and ukranians gain back the control of the city?
Of course. Most likely, they hoped to take power after Russia occupies Ukraine, in the worst case, to leave Ukraine along with the Russians. But bad luck - the Russian army no longer needs them, so there are several possibilities:
1. They themselves will try to flee to Belarus or Russia
2. They will give up
3. They get caught
4. They will resist and face liquidation.
In the second and third cases, they will be handed over to the SBU, then an inquiry, a court - sentences of varying degrees, depending on guilt.
If you are hinting that the Ukrainian army or the police shot them and that they are lying on the streets, this is simply impossible.
1. There was little time, they entered the city on march 2 and on march 2 photos of bodies appeared, which visually - where there more time.
2. It is not profitable for Ukraine to kill collaborators, since it is much more interesting to publicly extract the truth from them and collect more evidence against russia.
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