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Argomento del sondaggio nel forum
What should be the point system
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Topic: Point system |
271 risposte
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When managers are not participating in all races, but still do well enough to score points, they simply manage the game better than others. Given this example, there are at least a few races they are not participating so you could score there, or ... Besides, non-participates are already "punished" by not earning from these races, but they still have to pay for salaries, facilities, etc.
On top of that, give some space to the ones that are not able to make it every race. It might be they have something going on in RL that trumps spending time on the game. It's a management game, not a fair-play contest. So, manage your driver, car and funds and earn your spot! If you can, it should make you feel good. If you can't, don't blame the game. Simply start over and do better next time around!
Observe, learn, adjust and try again! Nobody said it was easy ...
Good luck and have fun out there!
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Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ January 23rd 2020,20:38:16 )
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When managers are not participating in all races, but still do well enough to score points, they simply manage the game better than others. Given this example, there are at least a few races they are not participating so you could score there, or ... Besides, non-participates are already "punished" by not earning from these races, but they still have to pay for salaries, facilities, etc.
On top of that, give some space to the ones that are not able to make it every race. It might be they have something going on in RL that trumps spending time on the game. It's a management game, not a fair-play contest. So, manage your driver, car and funds and earn your spot! If you can, it should make you feel good. If you can't, don't blame the game. Simply start over and do better next time around!
Observe, learn, adjust and try again! Nobody said it was easy ...
Good luck and have fun out there!
I think what you're writing is ridiculous.
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This debate has gone on for so long now. If the points system is changed, ALL records and data, has to be totally recalculated. Just sayin' :D
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Quote ( Yakup Paçacı @ January 23rd 2020,21:40:09 )
I think what you're writing is ridiculous.
and why?
you are accusing someone without any explanation...and he is right in any race your opponent doesn't start you are a place up in the start position, so this makes you come closer to the top 8.
if your driver or your car s*cks, you need to do better and improve your driver or your car or both
if you don't see that, well because its a manager game, you are a not so good manager.
Ppl having mostly two problems in this game
1) they think its a easy game to play (i did that to, but got my lesson learned), well it isn't
2) they don't take this game as serious as those how are going through lenght to make it to Pro, Master, Elite.... because back to point 1, this game ain't as easy as it looks.
the point system is good as it is, just do better then the other managers in your group
so again why was what Niels wrote ridicolous?
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I don t agree that all record to be changed. They will remain the same like it was before changing the rules... if there will be changes on points. I like point for fastest lap, even if I not have on my objectiv fastest lap in any race.
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Quote ( Jay De Snoo @ January 22nd 2020,17:03:33 ) Quote ( Gavin Bosence @ January 22nd 2020,16:45:08 )
A definitely outdated points system
But not broken.
I beg to differ. In my opinion, the current points system is quite broken. The current system assigns a disproportionately high value to every point scored. I do not fret over people who miss races or people who do OBPs, all of that is absolutely fine. But this is a system where finishing in the 6th-8th position range 2-3 times can guarantee you a retention in most cases, whereas finishing 9th-10th 5-6 times implies an almost certain relegation in the higher leagues. It is just as difficult to finish 10th in a race as it is to finish 7th, usually there is no appreciable difference in pace or effort on behalf of the manager, yet the difference in returns is too high IMO and makes no sense to me.
Something like the MotoGP scoring system would significantly reduce the value assigned to one point, and give rise to a system that is a lot more fair than the one we currently have and managers will be a lot more satisfied with the effort to returns ratio.
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Personally, considering all point systems in F1, "10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1" is the one I like less. Mainly because it doesn't highlight victories (I mean, actually if I arrive 2 times second I have the same points of arriving 1 time first and 1 time third respectively).
Moreover I think that a ratio of a bit more than 1/4 of cars at points is a good compromise for having a good consistency without giving points to everyone, so I think that while in F1 is too much, in Gpro can be good having 10 managers at points per race.
I don't think the actual F1 system is so bad, I would only like to change the points given to 2nd place to highlight it from the 3rd, so it will be something like "25-19-15-12-10-8-6-4-2-1": in this way if you finish 2 times second you don't have the same points of a 1st and 3rd place and in the meanwhile this point system can favour a little bit more the consistency (you will only need 7 eight places to beat a victory while at the moment you need 11)
To fix the money received for points it's very simple: if you win you will receive always the same amount of money (500'000), so you only have to divide for 25 and you can obtain how much you receive for scoring a point (20'000).
The only problems will be the old stats but, I mean, it's not like that all the past seasons were the same... during those years we have seen introductions/changes of many things like tires suppliers, lap boost, driver energy, PHA, technical director, etc.; so I don't think that we can do an exactly comparison between past seasons even if we will keep the same point system for all eternity.
Saying this, at the end the point system is the same for everyone so you can live with any of those and you simply act according to the one chosen.
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Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ January 23rd 2020,20:38:16 ) It might be they have something going on in RL that trumps spending time on the game. The obstacles of RL/are possibility of freedom.
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Quote ( Simone Bertolotto @ January 24th 2020,00:53:36 ) I don't think the actual F1 system is so bad,
Except that even FIA started almost immediately to "fix" the point system with ideas of "double points for last race" and "extra point for FL", instead of admitting that they made a mistake and reverting to previous system.
Apparently admitting the failure would've been "losing face" :)
It didn't take FIA too long to realize that the championship got decided too early and the penalty of DNF became too harsh
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But it must be said that retiring will be always penalizing whichever the point system and unless you use the old scoring "10-6-4-3-2-1", you will obtain almost the same results for the "10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1" and "25-18-15-12-10-8-6-4-2-1".
If we take for example the 1999 season, Hakkinen DNF 5 times against Irvine who DNF only 1 time. With Gpro current system Irvine would have won the championship by 8 points (equal to a 2nd place of advantage). With the "25-18-etc." system Irvine would have won the championship by 21 points (equal to a little more than a 2nd place but always less than a victory)... so, I don't think it really change so much about the weight of a DNF between those 2 points systems (it would be different if we use the 10-6-4-etc. , but we aren't talking about it =P ).
Actually I don't agree to use the "25" point system for the actual Formula 1 mostly because there are only 20 cars: they give points almost to everyone and I think they could have avoided that. But it changes my opinion if there are 40 cars in a race: in this case giving points to 10 cars isn't bad and you could see a little more fighting for the last point positions.
Secondly, the meaning of a championship is to be the average best in all the races, and not the best only in one race, so I don't see anything wrong if consistency is rewarded and if at the same time I can "highlight" more the first three places from the others is a really good solution according to me.
Quote ( Mikko Heikkinen @ January 24th 2020,06:50:22 ) Except that even FIA started almost immediately to "fix" the point system
By following this kind of thinking we could say the same for the "10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1": it was so good that it only last 7 seasons and then they changed it =P
Jokes aside, the 2014 point system was introduced only for the reason to try to maintain a championship open until the last races even with a dominance of only one driver, it has almost nothing to do regarding which point system was in use and it would have been introduced even if they had used the "10-8-6" system. It was great? I don't think so and I was against it already the first time they talked about it (I mean, unless the last race is 600km long, all the races with almost the same length deserve the same point system).
Finally regarding the point for fastest lap in the last F1 season the reason of its addition wasn't because the "retiring penalty" and actually, this point worsen it even more if you think that it can be rewarded only if you finish in the top 10 =P . Moreover, considering that are always the top team to obtain it, 1 point isn't really much with the "25" system and the main reason for its introduction was to see a little bit more of action at the end of the race. Like the 2014 system, the 2019 system is only a "marketing insertion" and in my opinion, it has nothing to do with the type of point system used previously.
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Quote ( Mikko Heikkinen @ January 24th 2020,06:50:22 )
Except that even FIA started almost immediately to "fix" the point system with ideas of "double points for last race" and "extra point for FL", instead of admitting that they made a mistake and reverting to previous system.
Apparently admitting the failure would've been "losing face" :)
It didn't take FIA too long to realize that the championship got decided too early and the penalty of DNF became too harsh
Mikko, your opinion is not supported by reality - actually the facts show the complete opposite of what you say.
The 25 points system was not the mistake, the 10-8-6 system was the mistake. That's why they got rid of it after only 7 seasons, which is less than the 25 points system which is going into its 11th season.
And why did they get rid of it? Because the 10-8-6 system is the one that is harsh on a DNF, not the new one. If your opponent is always right behind you, you need 5 wins to make up for 1 DNF in the old system. In the new one it's 4 wins and you have points to spare. This is what made the 2005 championship more boring than it could have been - Räikkönen had three bad DNFs and Alonso was the king of 2nd places to give him a big points lead. In the new system Alonso would have still won but it would have been a closer fight.
About double points: that was only implemented because some oil baron in Abu Dhabi wanted to make sure he got the championship decider in his backyard, so he paid Bernie a lot of money. Another mistake that was realized quickly, and abolished after just one season.
On-topic: I already proposed the MotoGP system in post #36 of this topic, I'm glad more people are coming up with the idea. I think there is currently not much wrong with how the top end of the table is decided, but retention battles would benefit from having more points scoring positions. As I said in that post, F1 tends to award points to about half of the race finishers (no matter which era you look at), GPRO only rewards 20-25% which is far from ideal.
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Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ January 24th 2020,12:30:16 ) If your opponent is always right behind you, you need 5 wins to make up for 1 DNF in the old system. In the new one it's 4 wins and you have points to spare. This is what made the 2005 championship more boring than it could have been - Räikkönen had three bad DNFs and Alonso was the king of 2nd places to give him a big points lead. In the new system Alonso would have still won but it would have been a closer fight.
This argument works the opposite way too. If you win 5 races in a row building a 10 point lead over a close competitor under the 10-8-6 system a single DNF can even things up. Under the 2010 system you can afford a DNF and the championship still looks relatively boring.
I'm not sure 2005 is the best example since Alonso and Kimi had the same wins at the moment it was decided and at the end, but it probably is the case that the 25-18-15 system keeps more championships technically alive longer just because more points are achievable. However it also reduces the permutations earlier by forcing the challenger to make up the points deficit using more higher place finishes.
An example is 2013, 4 races before the end Vettel & Alonso were 90 points apart and even with Vettel retiring in every remaining race Alonso would have to win at least three and finish 2nd in the other to avoid a points tie (a tie would see Vettel crowned on most wins). A feat with Webber in the mix too. Under 10-8-6 scoring the difference would have been 34 points, surmountable with only two wins and two 2nd places or three wins and a third place. Had Vettel retired in India and Alonso finished 3rd then the championship would have still been alive only under the 10-8-6 system.
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Quote ( Roland Postle @ January 26th 2020,22:08:07 )
This argument works the opposite way too. If you win 5 races in a row building a 10 point lead over a close competitor under the 10-8-6 system a single DNF can even things up. Under the 2010 system you can afford a DNF and the championship still looks relatively boring.
Which still means that the 2010 system punishes DNFs less severely than the 10-8-6 system, which was my point.
The discussions about what's the best system to decide the championship in F1 are endless because there are pros and cons to each system. GPRO is not F1 though, right? :) In GPRO, what happens at the bottom end of the table is as important as the top end, which is why I don't think any of the F1 points systems past or present are suitable for this game (and actually, that's mainly due to the grid size).
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Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ January 26th 2020,22:57:54 ) Which still means that the 2010 system punishes DNFs less severely than the 10-8-6 system, which was my point.
Okay, I was making a point about championship's getting boring too early. I guess they don't really care about DNFs being fair or unfair in F1 because there are no true randoms, there's always someone in the team to blame for a costly result :)
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ January 26th 2020,22:57:54 ) In GPRO, what happens at the bottom end of the table is as important as the top end
My take on GPRO for what it's worth, is that success at the bottom end of the table is rewarded by income so it doesn't have to be rewarded by points as well. The goal of scoring points provides an extra dimension alongside the goal of sustaining high but cost efficient average positions for your finances. In order to do well you have to balance both and there are legitimately different approaches to doing that which make the game more interesting and probably lead to more tyre brands being worthwhile.
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i'm so, System (10-7-6-5-4-3-2-1) + 1 Fastest Lap
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Quote ( Patrick Paarhuis @ January 23rd 2020,23:37:54 ) Quote ( Yakup Paçacı @ January 23rd 2020,21:40:09 )
I think what you're writing is ridiculous.
and why?
you are accusing someone without any explanation...and he is right in any race your opponent doesn't start you are a place up in the start position, so this makes you come closer to the top 8.
if your driver or your car s*cks, you need to do better and improve your driver or your car or both
if you don't see that, well because its a manager game, you are a not so good manager.
Ppl having mostly two problems in this game
1) they think its a easy game to play (i did that to, but got my lesson learned), well it isn't
2) they don't take this game as serious as those how are going through lenght to make it to Pro, Master, Elite.... because back to point 1, this game ain't as easy as it looks.
the point system is good as it is, just do better then the other managers in your group
so again why was what Niels wrote ridicolous?
because ,i'm so, those who do not participate in the race should be punished with negative points
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Quote ( Yakup Paçacı @ January 27th 2020,00:26:24 )
because ,i'm so, those who do not participate in the race should be punished with negative points
Hmm, that would be a first in sports ... I've seen points deducted for un-sportsmanship, financial foul play a/o fraud, but never for just not taking part ... Any athlete that sustains an injury, would possibly end up in a dire situation ... I think everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but I'm surprised to see this take on the game and sports in general.
I also think you come up with many, many, many ideas, Yakup. Granted, a few are not even that bad, but most have not been thought through very well, at least in my point of view. Though your views are "refreshing", I would suggest to give them another whirl before posting each and every thought you come up with.
PS. This has nothing to do with your skills in English. As written elsewhere by someone, I too like your perseverance. Keep bringing that to the game and you will be able to move forward, personally and as a team. But you also may want to keep in mind that the game has been out there for a lot longer then either you or me have been playing. There must be some merit to how things are put together, don't you think? Not saying it's perfect, but what is?
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just do 10- points for the winner and nothing else.
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I don't see a need to change the points system.
That said, if I was changing it, I'd make it 10-8-5-2-1: encourage consistency & performance, not just showing up. (And I say that as someone who's scored points only because 8th place counted.)
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I disagree with you taylor for many reason
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Quote ( Lorne Taylor @ January 27th 2020,10:14:14 ) I don't see a need to change the points system.
That said, if I was changing it, I'd make it 10-8-5-2-1: encourage consistency & performance, not just showing up. (And I say that as someone who's scored points only because 8th place counted.)
this would not be fair
this would be fair
10-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 and fastest lap +1
example :
old(at the moment) sistem (10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1)
8-1st 8- 3rd 1-5th=141 point
other
12-2nd 4-1st 1-3rd=142 point
new sistem (10-7-6-5-4-3-2-1)
8-1st 8- 3rd 1-5th=141 point
other
12-2nd 4-1st 1-3rd=130 point
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Quote ( Yakup Paçacı @ January 27th 2020,12:30:50 ) Quote ( Lorne Taylor @ January 27th 2020,10:14:14 )
I don't see a need to change the points system.
That said, if I was changing it, I'd make it 10-8-5-2-1: encourage consistency &amp; performance, not just showing up. (And I say that as someone who's scored points only because 8th place counted.)
this would not be fair
this would be fair
10-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 and fastest lap +1
example :
old(at the moment) sistem (10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1)
8-1st 8- 3rd 1-5th=141 point
other
12-2nd 4-1st 1-3rd=142 point
new sistem (10-7-6-5-4-3-2-1)
8-1st 8- 3rd 1-5th=141 point
other
12-2nd 4-1st 1-3rd=130 point
1 Point for FL is wrong because somebody could go for ES tyres & low fuel every race to get FL and finish up retaining in the grps above rookie
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Is there a special reward point somewhere? Motorsports, car sports (other than F1).
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Quote ( Michael Jones @ January 27th 2020,13:10:42 ) 1 Point for FL is wrong because somebody could go for ES tyres & low fuel every race to get FL and finish up retaining in the grps above rookie
yes o right
I forgot about that.
sorry
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As regards the points system, I think it would be best to have the same system that the actual F1 has been having for these past years, that is 25 - 18 etc. After all, this is a F1 online game, so why not emulate the actual F1? The present system which GPRO runs, that is 10 - 8 etc does not give enough credit to the one who wins the race, with only 2 points difference between 1st and 2nd. I would also give the 1 extra point for the fastest lap, and to make it more interesting, also 1 extra point for pole position.
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As with all F1 based suggestions - the main argument against is simple. GPRO may be based on F1 in a very general sense, but that does not mean it should be expected to follow the F1 regulations. F1 rules and regulations are forever changing, which would mean large chunks of the game would need to be redesigned and re-coded each year. In a game like this, where consistency and analysis of fixed data streams is key - then large, sweeping changes would only frustrate managers.
https://wiki.gpro.net/index.php?title=Common_Suggestions_%26_Ideas
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Everything you wrote Edgar has +/- but the mistake you wrote is that its an F1 based game. Its not at all about F1. Its about racing managing. It has nothing to do with F1
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Double point near the manager's birthday.
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Imo the main issue is not that the winner doesn't get enough credit, but that over half the field have nothing to fight for. 9-12th places at least have some hope to squeeze into the points, but everybody else are just making up the numbers.
Top 20, or at least top 15 should get points. Having mostly boring races and then push one/two races every season to secure retention is not the greatest. I wonder how many people stop playing the game once they reach Amateur. You need to have a solid long term vision to suffer through the first couple of seasons after promoting.
The Wiki says the game follows F1 in a general sense and is not expected to follow their rules, however the point system is taken from F1 and then fit into a 40-people races. Giving points to 20 people is not any more crazy than having 40 cars on the track.
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Quote ( Mike Zestas @ May 15th 2020,00:59:40 ) Everything you wrote Edgar has +/- but the mistake you wrote is that its an F1 based game. Its not at all about F1. Its about racing managing. It has nothing to do with F1
Apart from the fact that all the liveries are F1 and nearly all the tracks are ex F1 or current f1. As well as the fact F1 is also referred to as Grand Prix Racing. I think this game has more to do with F1 than you think.
To say it has ‘nothing’ to do with F1 is incorrect. Of course, there are plenty of elements that don’t cover F1, that would end up being a way more in depth game.
Keep points as it is. It keeps it competitive. Vlad does a great job!
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