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Topik: [F1] 2009 Belgian Grand Prix |
899 balasan
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#871 dikirim Ogo 30 2009, 23:11:12 (terakhir disunting Ogo 30 2009, 23:11:30 oleh Tim Wagner)
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Quote ( David Jundt @ August 30th 2009,23:10:12 )
Could have been penalised, yeah.
So if you(speak to you all) wanna penalise Raikkonnen, go on, penalise Sutil too. Oh wait, stewards are not penalising anyone. Fail.
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Quote ( Thomas Lindgren @ August 30th 2009,23:08:38 )
Button didn't gain anything from it, he was 12th before leaving the track and 12th when he got back.
Thomas you know better than that. Gaining something has nothing to do with positions in rules, it's about speed. If it's faster to go outside of the track, it's illegal. If it's slower then who opposes, just because other drivers make mistakes on track doesn't make it illegal to use a slower route.
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Quote ( Thomas Lindgren @ August 30th 2009,23:08:38 )
Button didn't gain anything from it, he was 12th before leaving the track and 12th when he got back.
Not true. Look carefuly on your video and you will see he was 11th (together with Williams) back on the track, but just lost it because of traction...
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Quote ( Thomas Lindgren @ August 30th 2009,22:51:48 )
Ehh? Are you blind? The entire track has a white line around it
hah hah, oh my, swedish joke, this is sooooooooooo funny!
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#875 dikirim Ogo 30 2009, 23:14:39 (terakhir disunting Ogo 30 2009, 23:16:43 oleh David Jundt)
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Let's go back to the gravel traps then everyone.
Oh no, wait, that would reduce the safety standard again.
FAIL.
Instead of being happy the drivers can't kill themselves so easily now, we argue about a single idiot going the long way.
FAIL2.
EDIT: Sorry, I am bit harsh there... But live goes on...
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Quote ( David Jundt @ August 30th 2009,23:14:39 )
we argue about a single idiot going the long
Who you called idiot, fool.
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Quote ( David Jundt @ August 30th 2009,23:14:39 )
a single idiot going the long way.
Oh and it was 3 idiots (in this race, dozens more counting previous years in it) by the way. Räikkönen, Button and Badoer.
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#878 dikirim Ogo 30 2009, 23:20:32 (terakhir disunting Ogo 30 2009, 23:21:42 oleh David Jundt)
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Quote ( Santtu Sara @ August 30th 2009,23:17:06 )
Who you called idiot, fool.
General. Not that I meant it personal to Kimi. Someone seems to be an idiot in every race out of 20.
But in the longer or shorter time, we should end this discussion. If the stewards a blind, retarded men we can't do anything. Or they just didn't see the gain of advantage.
I am just a bit annoyed.
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Back in Button + Räikkönen.
"Button didn't gain advantage"
-Oh yes, wanna know why? Because he didn't have KERS and line like that doesn't make you go anyhow faster.
"Räikkönen gained advanced, so he must be penalised!!!!1111 ;(;("
-Yea. What's the thing when you press a button and some kind of electric thing gives you 80hp extra horsepower for a while. Or does that even exists?
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We could also go on Grosjean, his move was helpess, but the excuse it was Button's fault was poor...
At least I heard he was furious about it. He should be mad with himself.
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I hope at least FIA would analyse this and take some actions for the future.
I am SURE, and I mean ABSOLUTELY SURE that if this was a race where championship winner was to be decided and one of the contestants was in Kimi's place and Kimi himself was in Trulli's place, FIA would have very thoroughly analyzed this.
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A last thing to throw in:
Q: At the first corner you were the only driver that went wide. Was that something that you had discussed with the team?
KR: No, first I tried to go the normal way but I think it was Nick or somebody who came a bit too fast inside and pushed Jarno Trulli very wide, so I had nowhere to go. I just needed to turn straight and go all the way around. It worked out but it wasn’t the plan in the first place but there was no space.
Q: Were you able to use the KERS perhaps earlier?
KR: No, I mean it is very bumpy there. I ended up there also last year. It doesn’t make much difference. It is a much longer way. If I could go on the circuit I would but if it would be fast I’d try to do it every lap but that was not the case.
And indeed, if you watch the moment, when they just reach the apex of La Source, Heidfeld if pushing Trulli very far in the corner. If we had an onboard of Raikkonen, I believe we would see him open his steering wheel turnus to avoid the Toyota. And if he did that, there would have been no other way to make the corner other than to break(and risk a collision, because people were behind him).
Now shut up.
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We do have an onboard from Kimi, so you shut up.
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i just found this on the ITV teletext,
and it is,
The FIA have launched an investigation of a highly-sensitive nature regarding a previous result.
it is understood they are looking into the events of last seasons inaugural Singapore Grand Prix, which was the first night race run under floodlights.
A spokesperson simply stated: "Th FIA can confirm that an investigation is under way regarding alleged events at a previous world championship race".
im not sure what event this would be, anybody got ideas on what it coul be
and also no drivers involved in the crash on the first lap will be penalised.
http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=46756
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#885 dikirim Ogo 30 2009, 23:39:46 (terakhir disunting Ogo 30 2009, 23:41:36 oleh Jan Zaluski)
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Quote ( Martin Tajcnár @ August 30th 2009,22:57:42 )
So much plain talking just not to admit that Button did the same like Raikkonen? :D Already Thomas wrote they did the same thing :DDD You are one of the last to admit it...
You will have to explain it to me like you would to a 5-year old child, because I think I am too dumb to follow your logic.
What I see is:
Sutil has a little spin, Rosberg evades him forcing Button to go off track. You can see that clearly on the still of the youtube video Jonathan posted.
On that picture he is 13th, just because Heikki (?) dived into first corner a second earlier. He was 12th before the corner. Techincally, he is 12th because Kimi is off track and doesn't count, but I already see you don't grasp this concept, so I won't mention that further.
When he rejoins the track he is about the same height as Hamilton, who quickly passes him and Jenson is back on 12 th position.
Quote ( Martin Tajcnár @ August 30th 2009,22:57:42 )
Button did the same thing just wasn´t able to hold his advantage (...) but only because his traction was slower,
And how do YOU know that? Did you speak to Jenson about that? How do you know he didn't have the traction? Maybe he lifted the accelerator a bit? Maybe he realised he can gain an advantage and made sure he will get back on tack on the right spot?
After all he had to let Mark Webber pass him in Valencia, remember that?
That is why I questioned your abilities as a lawyer, since logic is a lawyer's main tool, and your logic has serious flaws. You don't see a difference between taking advantage and not taking advantage of certain actions.
You also seem to think that Button would absolutely use that advantage if he had KERS. What makes you so sure of that? As a lawyer, would you put all people with a gun into jail for attempting a bank robbery? :) Or if a murdered person had been found would, you sentence every person with a knife in their home? :)))
Of course I cannot tell what kind of lawyer you would be in real life, I don't know you at all. That line was just reffering to the kind of logic I gave you an exegarated example in the paragraph above. You see, it was rather a humoristic reference and I am glad you took it that way. :)
Quote ( Martin Tajcnár @ August 30th 2009,22:57:42 )
I watched it on my local TV and also RTL - there was no mention Raikkonen should be punished.
On RTL they also disagreed with the Hamilton penalty last year. So at least they keep consistency. On my local TV they said Kimi should be penalised - but our local 'experts' are about as good as we - armchair forum F1 'experts' :D.
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Quote ( Alin Costrasuc @ August 30th 2009,23:38:28 )
We do have an onboard from Kimi, so you shut up.
Good, that I didnt knew that. But meh. Quick search on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfRedePIej8
(0:52-1:08 is the important part).
Just stated, what I said - the Toyota of Trulli was in the way.
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Quote ( Alin Costrasuc @ August 30th 2009,23:38:28 )
We do have an onboard from Kimi, so you shut up.
Quote ( Alin Costrasuc @ August 30th 2009,22:53:59 )
determine the IQ
You were right on 1 thing ;)
Quote ( David Jundt @ August 30th 2009,23:20:32 )
gain of advantage.
There was no gain. Räikkönen took the slower outside line because of drivers making mistakes and blocking the racing line. The way Kubica got so easily past both Heidfeld and Trulli shows they were just slow on track, so Kimi was able to past them even using the slower line outside the track. So no braking rules there.
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Jussi, I was just quoting Max Rotko.
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lol. this thread is really funny :) for all of you who think that Kimi did the "wrong" thing would you want to see a big crash in the first corner or a nice race with a lot of overtakings?
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A big crash, yeahhhhh !!!!
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I´m too tired to reply on everything what you wrote Jan. And most of all, it´s pointless. Obviously race stewards, most of the commentators, drivers, teams and F1 insiders have another opinion than you. My logic says they should be more right as you :D ...sorry.
And if you really think that logic is a lawyers main tool, then I just have to laugh :D You probably saw too much films and detective series :D But not the daily reality of court...
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Quote ( Tim-Oliver Wagner @ August 30th 2009,23:42:15 )
Just stated, what I said - the Toyota of Trulli was in the way.
But there is no opening of his steering wheel turnus to avoid the Toyota, like you mention. We also see the Toyota is about 1,5m away from him. Looks like he intended to take that route. (*)
Thanks Tim-O for helping proving our point! :)
(*) The situation might not have been that visible from Kimi's cockpit and I have no problem with him choosing the safer route for everybody involved. But:
Quote ( Milenco Ieremici @ August 30th 2009,23:46:43 )
for all of you who think that Kimi did the "wrong" thing would you want to see a big crash in the first corner
No, we would like to see Kimi give back the posistion he gained on like 2nd or 3rd lap. Like Button in Valencia for example.
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#894 dikirim Ogo 31 2009, 00:00:47 (terakhir disunting Ogo 31 2009, 00:03:02 oleh Jan Zaluski)
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Quote ( Martin Tajcnár @ August 30th 2009,23:49:23 )
Obviously race stewards, most of the commentators, drivers, teams and F1 insiders have another opinion than you.
All the sheep are jumping off the cliff, let's do that too, Must be good, if they do it! Kidding. :)
Seriously now, you are probably right. About most of the F1 folks seeing Kimis's move as ok. I am not long enough into F1 to witness much of such situations, to be able to judge 100% like race stewards. But I remember what Hamilton was penalised for last year. I wonder if you commented on that last time... ;)
But would they (the F1 folks) say Button did the same thing as Kimi? The situations were the same? Because that is my gripe with your posts here. And with your logic and reasoning behind that.
Quote ( Martin Tajcnár @ August 30th 2009,23:49:23 )
And if you really think that logic is a lawyers main tool, then I just have to laugh :D You probably saw too much films and detective series :D But not the daily reality of court...
You ment that for you? :D Making such a strong statement based on almost nothing that says a lot about you and I must say I am disappointed by your post, but who cares, write what you want.
:)
I obviously didn't mean the daily reality of court, but the ability to interpret situations, rules and law in general by using logic, but... who cares? :)
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Quote ( Tim-Oliver Wagner @ August 30th 2009,23:42:15 )
Just stated, what I said - the Toyota of Trulli was in the way.
If you were driving a bus, I'd he agree, but Kimi wasn't.
1.01-1.04, you can see Kimi almost using full lock, and made no adjustments to 'miss' Trulli.
and he started 'boosting' at 1.04, whilst still off the track.
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The level of ignorance on the last couple of pages is simply amazing.
LOL
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well its done now, no point getting riled by it - it sets a precedent for others now. no problems :)
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oh no, why you people already stopped "discussing" about this? :Z where do i get my fun tonight?
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You can provide your own fun...
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I would strongly advise anyone here if they ever have the chance to go to Spa... go. It is a brilliant circuit, so many good places to watch the cars even on the general access tickets. The whole place has an atmosphere no track can match. Fantastic.
I was lucky enough to be a guest of Red Bull Racing on Saturday morning. I was feet away from Webber's car as the drama with his engine unfolded. Simply awesome.
I'd like to thank the GPRO team for sponsoring me on my bike ride (the link is earlier in the thread if anyone else would like to donate). I had cycled down from Amsterdam and when all the money is in it looks like I've raised over 300 pounds for the British Lung Foundation.
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