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Topik: GPRO Points System-Will it change? |
2971 balasan
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It seems like NOTHING ever changes here ^^
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Mmm ... some things do change ... :)
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how about double points for R17? ;)
/sarcasm
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Double points is good idea, maybe stops people pushing out for the last race
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Quote ( Steven Richardson @ February 14th 2014,22:34:17 ) how about double points for R17? ;)
Points score only 8 people from 40. Yhis heavy disadvantage already. So You suggest to double this disadvantage....
Why not? Because something more stupid will be finally found then :)
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Quote ( Daneks Britāls @ February 14th 2014,22:36:43 ) So You suggest to double this disadvantage....
it was sarcasm
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And how about just letting people with weird noses play the game?
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GPRO has always had this point system by the looks of it so why change it. It means you have to work for points then have it handed to you. It also means a closer championship
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Quote ( Constantin Heller @ February 14th 2014,22:31:36 ) It seems like NOTHING ever changes here ^^
So...sadly true!
Quote ( Andreas Noble @ February 14th 2014,22:53:23 ) GPRO has always had this point system by the looks of it so why change it.
Evolution, improvements...this should be enough to answer to you.
But also, change mean new strategy, something new in the game, more fun.
I personally believe (as majority of the players of this game) that 8 point scorers from 40 starters are not enough (I think 15 would be correct, or at least 12).
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#2229 dikirim Apr 14 2014, 10:56:21 (terakhir disunting Apr 14 2014, 11:01:13 oleh Luke Frost)
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Sebut
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Matteo, the reason this suggestion is not implemented isn't because the admins are completely disregarding it, the reason it's not implemented is because there are more clear arguments in favour of keeping the points system as it is. Here is the best response from admins that I could find:
Quote ( Stefan Voggenreither @ March 8th 2009,10:29:57 ) Quote ( João Jesus @ March 8th 2009,10:19:17 )
No. But i think it can be changed.
It can be changed, but wont be changed :)
The GPRO-Standings are calculated as the FIA-Regulations are: http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/471827260__2008_F1_sp...
Dead Heat, 25.) if two or more constructors or drivers finish the season with the same number of points, the higher place in the Championship (in either case) shall be awarded to:
a) the holder of the greatest number of first places,
b) if the number of first places is the same, the holder of the greatest number of second places,
c) if the number of second places is the same, the holder of the greatest number of third places and so on until a winner emerges.
d) if this procedure fails to produce a result, the FIA will nominate the winner according to such criteria as it thinks fit.
And there is one big reason why we wont change this system: I saw a championship decision somewhere else where both top managers finished with the same points. One got 2 wins and one got 9 wins. One of them was unlucky and had a random failure. Now guess, who got the champ and who not.
In summary, I agree with Stefan on this one.
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Quote ( Luke Frost @ April 14th 2014,10:56:21 ) Here is the best response from admins that I could find:
The best response to what? :-)
Quote ( Luke Frost @ April 14th 2014,10:56:21 ) In summary, I agree with Stefan on this one
So does a huge majority of us, I suppose.
But I guess that the problem is (IMVHO of course) in statistics (comparison of different seasons) and not in the method the place will be awarded.
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surely the new points system (25 for a win) give a greater reward for winning, and therefore a greater incentive, whilst increasing excitement of the champoinship
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Quote ( Tomek Kiełpiński @ April 14th 2014,11:24:19 ) The best response to what? :-)
Changing the points system :)
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Quote ( Daniel Jaffe @ April 14th 2014,11:24:56 ) surely the new points system (25 for a win) give a greater reward for winning, and therefore a greater incentive, whilst increasing excitement of the champoinship
I donno, from the races I have done and the championships I looked at last season it was already pretty exciting :thumbs up:
Adding in more points for win will only push drivers that much harder for wins and wins. I always understood championship racing as a large race of consistency.
People are already racing to win, no need to raise the stakes in that regard ;)
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Quote ( Luke Frost @ April 14th 2014,11:25:43 ) Changing the points system :)
I'd say it's an answer to some proposed changes in how to solve a tier. In March 2009 no one knew that from 2010 ten drivers will score in F1 :-)
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Quote ( Daniel Jaffe @ April 14th 2014,11:24:56 ) surely the new points system (25 for a win) give a greater reward for winning, and therefore a greater incentive, whilst increasing excitement of the champoinship
If you have a read through the thread you'll see that even those that support a change tend to accept it would make little or no difference at the top of the tables (all discussed, so I won't be going over it again). It could have an impact on those retaining and making sure that people are scoring to retain, and would give more people the chance to challenge for points over places - the pros and cons of which are all thoroughly discussed throughout this thread.
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Quote ( Matteo Bacchini @ April 14th 2014,10:48:51 ) Quote ( Constantin Heller @ February 14th 2014,22:31:36 )
It seems like NOTHING ever changes here ^^
So...sadly true!
There is very good reason you hear the Rookies wanting change but the old-timers never wanting any change.
The more you drive the more data you collect and if something even as small as scoring is changed that data becomes a little less useful. There have been some great suggestions in the forums to update the game but they are all rejected because any major change would make the collected data completely useless for the veterans.
As a rookie, like me, you first come here and see two things - the game looks rather dated compared to the current F1 and that in order to succeed you need data and that those who came before you will always have more data. I guess it evens out over time, after 5-6 seasons you have also gathered enough so the difference is not that huge but initially you as a newcomer are at a huge disadvantage.
So rookies (like me), try to suggest ways to bring the game up to date (And make the data already collected a less valuable) but are always rejected, usually with any combination of these 3 arguments:
a) "Why to change something that is working"
b) "The admins have their hands full as it is"
c) "GPRO is not F1"
Well, they are really all excuses IMHO. Let's look at the points system:
a) is all about data protection, the new points would work just as fine but would bring in some different dynamics into the game. For the championships, it would be easier to pull away if you dominate but also easier to catch up and randoms and smoking would be more painful. For retention there would be a tighter battle as more drivers score etc. But if you have already worked out your season planning formulas you don't want these things changed as it would break them.
b) is an excuse in that we are talking about a rather minor change to the formulas. How that affects previous seasons' databases I don't know, but it shouldn't be too hard to implement.
c) is really just an excuse. GPRO, when it came out, tried to implement as much as it could from the F1 of the time. Most people under the age of 20 don't even remember these rules. F1 has had resets to even out the field every now and then and why shouldn't we?
But all in all, things will never change and I will be in the conservative camp after a few seasons because I have data to protect ;)
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Quote ( Gustav Gerretz @ April 14th 2014,12:45:28 )
The more you drive the more data you collect and if something even as small as scoring is changed that data becomes a little less useful.
How can a change in scoring have any impact at all on data people may or may not have or how useful it is? :/
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I still think 8 scorers from 40 is totally ludicrous and nothing I have seen makes me agree with you so Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ April 14th 2014,11:49:10 ) If you have a read through the thread you'll see that even those that support a change tend to accept it would make little or no difference at the top of the table
totally wrong.
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ April 14th 2014,12:55:55 ) How can a change in scoring have any impact at all on data people may or may not have? :/
Season financial planning for example, the battle for retention will be more fierce in a way. Currently you need to be in top 8 at least once, prefferably twice but in case of top 10 scoring you have to push more.
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I haven´t said nothing in all the threads that these days seems to be claiming for changes...
Ok, I´ll do it now:
1- For all those who says there are no changes in the game. There have been many changes in the game system since it started, but due to obvious reasons you can´t expect the game to be changed every time someone propose a change. We simply wouldn´t know what we are playing if ALL the changes happens.
It´s always nice to have new suggestions and discussions about what should be changed and why, or why not. But:
To newbies:
-Before doing a suggestion look in the forum about if it was suggested before, what people said about it, etc, if you don´t have nothing NEW to add, please don´t start AGAIN with the same because you will be disapointed by all those who simply says, "this has been asked before and won´t happen" "this will never happen" "GPRO is not F1". Try to find out why they say that ;) And if someone gives you a link to a thread where it was discussed before, please read it, the people who took their time to write and discuss it deserves at least that you read their opinion, it´s not only your suggestion or oppinion the one to be listened to.
To veterans:
- There´s no reason to always say the same when a new player ask for a change, if everything you are going to say is "this has been asked before and won´t happen" "this will never happen" "GPRO is not F1" or simply "NO", please, count until 10 and breath, and avoid posting, I´m sure someone will be nice and explain them why it´s not a good idea, or why it was rejected last time it was discussed, but in a nice way ;)
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I wish GPRO would offer the chance to choose in what type of championship we want to run...
Option 1: Traditionnal GPRO Scoring system
Option 2: Nascar type of scoring where every position counts
I really wonder wich would have more participants ;)
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Quote ( Cale Murray @ April 14th 2014,13:00:06 ) nothing I have seen makes me agree with you so
Agree with me? I haven't voiced an opinion at all recently.
Quote ( Cale Murray @ April 14th 2014,13:00:06 ) totally wrong.
I have no intention of going through the thread again to find this discussed in the past, but it was, in depth, and, on the most part agreed that it would have little impact at the top. IIRC, someone actually looked at how some groups would have finished with a different point system and, on almost all occasions, the group winners and those at the top pretty much remained the same, regardless of scoring system.
It could certainly have an impact on retention, as I said.
Quote ( Gustav Gerretz @ April 14th 2014,13:04:40 ) Season financial planning for example, the battle for retention will be more fierce in a way. Currently you need to be in top 8 at least once, prefferably twice but in case of top 10 scoring you have to push more.
Yes, it can impact on the battle of retention but that is nothing to do with the usefulness of people's data, which is the point I had issue with.
And financial planning isn't really to do with data gained in the past either; at least not any data that would change with a change in point system.
Your comment about "veteran managers protecting their data" has absolutely no place in the discussion about the point system that I can see, or that you can honestly see yourself, from your response.
And that's ignoring the fact that the "veteran managers protecting their data" mantra is false in most cases anyway, but that's another discussion.
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No I don't agree with the points and you said the people against even agreed it made no difference at the top which is wrong.
I still have seen more reason have a different Point system to the 1 we have now.
Quote ( Luke Frost @ April 14th 2014,10:56:21 ) It can be changed, but wont be changed :)
The GPRO-Standings are calculated as the FIA-Regulations are: http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/471827260__2008_F1_sp...
Dead Heat, 25.) if two or more constructors or drivers finish the season with the same number of points, the higher place in the Championship (in either case) shall be awarded to:
a) the holder of the greatest number of first places,
b) if the number of first places is the same, the holder of the greatest number of second places,
c) if the number of second places is the same, the holder of the greatest number of third places and so on until a winner emerges.
d) if this procedure fails to produce a result, the FIA will nominate the winner according to such criteria as it thinks fit.
And there is one big reason why we wont change this system: I saw a championship decision somewhere else where both top managers finished with the same points. One got 2 wins and one got 9 wins. One of them was unlucky and had a random failure. Now guess, who got the champ and who not.
In summary, I agree with Stefan on this one.
this told me nothing .
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Quote ( Gustav Gerretz @ April 14th 2014,12:45:28 ) There is very good reason you hear the Rookies wanting change but the old-timers never wanting any change.
The more you drive the more data you collect and if something even as small as scoring is changed that data becomes a little less useful. There have been some great suggestions in the forums to update the game but they are all rejected because any major change would make the collected data completely useless for the veterans.
Nonsense. The reason that you see Rookies wanting change so much is because they don't understand how the game works or they want changes that keep them from making Rookie mistakes.
The reason that you see veterans shooting down many of the ideas of the Rookies is because since the Rookies don't understand how the game works, they don't understand the unintended consequences of many of the changes that they suggest. It's not about data changing.
The other major reasons that suggestions get shot down is because they literally do nothing to improve the game play. "Making the rules more like the current F1 rules" is not the same as improving the game play. We're talking about a game that has a finite amount of resources available for development, and wasting those resources on churning aspects of the game that ultimately make no difference makes no sense.
Quote ( Gustav Gerretz @ April 14th 2014,13:04:40 ) Season financial planning for example, the battle for retention will be more fierce in a way. Currently you need to be in top 8 at least once, prefferably twice but in case of top 10 scoring you have to push more.
That has nothing to do with data that has been collected or could be collected though. It's only a matter of strategy. Your claim is far from proven.
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Next people will be suggesting to add double points for the final race.
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Quote ( Daniel Jaffe @ April 14th 2014,11:24:56 ) surely the new points system (25 for a win) give a greater reward for winning, and therefore a greater incentive, whilst increasing excitement of the champoinship
If it was such a success, then why would they need to come up with things like "double points for final race" and such ?
Clearly they are admitting the renewed points system was a failure :)
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There is a simple reason why just 8 people get points: Strategy. I can't say what kind of strategy (not on the forum) but if your strategy is right, it's not too hard to get in the Top 8 at least once...
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and if such point system is added to game, then gpro is again 1 step closer to having a unnecessary talk with the guys at fia. too much unnecessary work for our admins :)
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