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Topik: Current situation and GPRO's future |
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Quote ( Jason Mckinney @ March 28th 2015,14:11:45 )
Un par de mis sugerencias: creo que puede ser beneficioso para los novatos tengan más vueltas de práctica sin los costos. Tal vez para decir 20 más que el 8, de esta manera se les daría mucha más oportunidad de jugar con los reglajes y acercarse a un montaje para ayudarles en la carrera, pagando mucho menos como tal vez $ 5,000 o $ 10,000 por regazo práctica o incluso menos en lugar de $ 50,000. Además ¿qué tal una práctica longitud 1 carrera que podría ayudar a recopilar datos de desgaste de los neumáticos y el consumo de combustible como entonces pueden estar mejor preparados para competir y planificar las paradas en boxes. Creo que esto ayudaría y puede mantener a unos cuantos más en el juego y quedarse ya que saben que pueden trabajar fuera de esto. Mucha gente de aquí no le gustaría esto no creo pero creo que el sistema de puntos debe ir a la F1 moderna reglas con las 10 que consiguen puntos de carrera. Sé que cuando yo estaba en el novato aunque estoy seguro de que más personas se encontraban en el novato en el momento, pero siempre me sentí que sería mucho mejor si me dieron puntos para terminar en el top 10 en lugar de 8. Sé que es sólo 2 lugares pero para mí me lo pensaría haría una gran diferencia porque entonces si lo hace terminar décimo usted pensará que al menos ahora tengo un punto y estoy en marcha y funcionando. Sólo un par de ideas que puede o no beneficiar a los novatos. Sólo creo que ayudaría a aprender el juego un poco más rápido y obtener más confianza que pueden empujar a la promoción de novato más rápido en lugar de saber que podría tomar un par de temporadas y por lo tanto meses. encontrar también a alguien que pudiera hacer este trabajo en un teléfono inteligente es definitivamente el camino a seguir como estoy seguro de que mucha más gente podría usar esto y que podrían traer a mucha más gente. Para mí, personalmente 2 carreras a la semana es suficiente, pero algunas personas pueden decir que necesito más que esto para seguir jugando, con que yo creo que sería un buen equilibrio para juzgar.
+1
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Ecclestone says F1 needs to be a lot better at facing its problems and admits: "The trouble is we've got an old house and we keep repairing it. It's not really the way to go."
Exactly our problem in a way.
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Quote ( David Jones-Winkley @ March 28th 2015,13:44:32 ) We have the mentor system in place that requires a newbie to post on the forum to get some help but is it really working or do enough newbies use it. Everyone in the game could have a an option in account settings to be a possible mentor. With this then each newbie is assigned maybe 3 mentor links in their profile that they may contact to answer any questions they have and they could also rate them some way so that any inactive mentors can be removed from the system. Some newbies get told foby on the forum and don't like making an initial contact to someone more experienced than them.
this is perfect.
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I think the main reason why advertising didn't really work was that the ads were shit. Half of them were nothing about the game but instead were a general F1 headline such as "Lewis Hamilton wins blah blah GP" with a referral link stuck to the bottom. The link didn't even take potential new players to a relevant forum page (GPRO should be taking advantage of the active community more and showing people that they can do their race then have a good conversation with other race fans afterwards). I'm not sure about other players but if I had clicked on a news article and been directed to a sign-up page instead I would assume it was a scam and never come back.
As for why these new players who do sign up don't stick around I'm not sure (I haven't been a rookie for a long time) but I feel the forum is the wrong place to find out. The vast majority of players never use the forum in their whole time playing the game so we have no idea why they're quiting/what they want from the game, sticking a survey up on /gb/ViewPolls.asp would be the easiest way to find out.
Also Jason makes a good point about the points system. The 2010 points system might be worse than the GPRO system, it could be better, it doesn't really matter. If following the rules of the sport they watch on TV every couple of weeks mean new players are more likely to stick around for longer it might be worth considering making small changes like that.
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Quote ( Vladimir Alexandrov @ March 28th 2015,08:21:05 ) Are we going to stay small and keep the game on life support in its current form?
Quote ( Daneks Britāls @ March 28th 2015,14:14:02 ) I wouldn't say that it's bad solution. Smaller game makes it more close and friendly. Also more competitive.
I agree that this is not a bad solution at all.
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Simple solution to mentoring situation; up with those silly new notifcation icons, how about one that says in BIG BOLD writing "Get a MENTOR" that takes them directly to the mentoring forum/threads.
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I could attempt some track backgrounds if you give me an idea of the pixel size and requirements.
A base background would be ideal for me to work from.
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#68 dikirim Mac 28 2015, 15:32:28 (terakhir disunting Mac 28 2015, 15:33:35 oleh Chris Field)
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Quote ( Andrei Ciuchi @ March 28th 2015,10:10:58 ) Quote ( Chris Field @ March 28th 2015,10:09:02 )
The only way I can see the player base growing is to fundamentally change the way the game works
Perhaps you can give an example of 'fundamentally change the way the game works'?
Are you referring to getting rid of the FOBY aspect of the game?
Quote ( Chris Field @ March 28th 2015,10:09:02 )
Fundamentally, the design of the game is one which rewards longevity and even goes so far as to deny new players the information they need to play it well. Despite the Newbie Guide and FAQ, the attitude is and always has been "Find Out By Yourself" - to the extent that I'm sure many players, myself included, don't bother asking questions any more. We are just told FOBY, or someone who offers information is leapt on by FOBY enthusiasts.
There is the mentor program offered at the beginning of each manager's career. It's a good starting point. Then you can get into a team where you can learn. You think that's not enough?
Well let me describe my experience so far, with only a few seasons. My first season in Rookie was utterly mystifying, in the sense that even when I did something right, I had no idea why. I approached my very first race trying to use logical ideas about how I thought the game would work, based on knowledge of real F1. It was a terrible race though, because I had absolutely no benchmarks to estimate how long tyres would last or how much fuel would be needed. I ended up pitting about 20 times and obviously came last.
After that, I started to guess rough numbers for tyre wear and fuel use and most races things worked out, but I absolutely wasn't prepared for promotion, since several people ahead of me had deliberately gone bankrupt (or were also terrible at the game I suppose). At this point I joined a team, and the team threw a calculator at me, and wow, suddenly I began to realise that there were hundreds of little *non-intuitive* interactions between your driver and your car parts and the racetrack. Being mathematically-minded though, I found this new aspect interesting and started to work on models for the things the team didn't already know. I found this very challenging in itself, because we didn't have enough data - you really need to have raced the same track with very few changes to other factors in order to get good estimates from the model, and there were too many degrees of freedom for the amount of data we had. That's *still* the case, due to the introduction of new tracks and tweaks to tyre compounds. We started behind the data curve, and we're still behind, and I don't know how we can catch up because people who already know everything want challenges, but those of us behind want things to stay the same.
This is I think the fundamental problem with the FOBY system - it's a pyramid scheme, in which people at the top know everything and people at the bottom are desperately trying to climb up, whilst new changes make that ever harder for people at the bottom but just a small hurdle for those at the top.
If you want the game to be about the skill of working these things out, rather than simply the experience, or having enough people to provide enough data, then you need to actively introduce aspects that change every season. In current F1 we have a situation where your car design and more critically your engine manufacturer seem to drive the changes each season. Why not create a bunch of different companies to provide different parts, and each season the parts change a little - which company has the best part changes a little, and you only discover this by racing, and let people damn well talk about which parts they have found go well together or not. Maybe one season it turns out there's a good combination of cheap parts that wear slowly and prove to be better over a season, or maybe it's worth paying for the top rated parts, but you'll need to save costs elsewhere.
This brings me to another aspect of the game that surely puts people off - the extreme long term planning requirements. It's definitely ok to have to plan your season out carefully, don't get me wrong, but it's clear that you can't just think about promotion, you have to think about whether you're in a good position or not next season to survive that new league. You have people sitting around in Amateur, spending seasons just maximising their income, so they feel they have a chance in Pro. I'm not saying this *works* but it happens. I am fairly sure I'll be demoted myself this season - in which case, screw it, I'm resetting, I don't see the point in spending a season sitting around just recouping my monetary losses, I may as well have fun.
I have maybe three concrete suggestions (because I'm aware my idea above is utterly made-up and untested):
1) Separate genuine rookies from people who have been demoted or reset. If you ever got promoted out of Rookie, you'll always go back to Rookie+, away from the actual new players.
2) I don't know why the site is so damned resistant to this, but *change the damned points system* - if only because I don't understand why someone who finishes conistently 9th ends up behind someone who gets lucky one race and then never sees the top 20 again. I don't care how the points scale at the top, but don't copy one of the poorest aspects of F1 just for the sake of it.
3) Make the financial aspects of the game much more transparent. You have no idea how much it costs to pay for your facilities until you've built them. Facility costs themselves are a mystery unless you can upgrade them right there. Sponsors are utterly confusing, their stats do not have intuitive meanings and it's not apparent how happy they are with you until it's too late, because there's so much hidden information about how your races have affected them.
I'd even go so far as to suggest that this is the most archaic part of the game - a modern design gives you all the information that should in reality be available to you, and should offer you avenues to deal with your problems that have managed effects. The skill should come in doing the right thing at the right time, not playing the game a hundred times until you've worked out the rules (I reiterate).
One last thing: there's nothing more condescending and off-putting than people in high leagues or hot-shot teams, or even the crew, telling you that things don't need to change because it worked for them. Just because you did it, doesn't mean everyone else should go through the same process - improve it for others, don't leave things be so that you stay on top. It's bad design not to change something because it's always been that way if it doesn't work any more. It's bad design to refuse to change other things because not everybody dislikes them, or because you personally like them the way they are.
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Why not have mentor teams?
How many rookies go to get a mentor? How many potential mentors check the thread often enough? I personally would have stood no chance in this game without the advice of my mentor and a friend who played before I started.
Lets say that experienced managers were grouped into 3's (for example) that formed the basis for a "team" that did not compete in the team standings (you would obviously still be part of your proper team). New rookies are then automatically assigned into these teams - up to a total of 10, lets say, meaning 7 rookies to 3 experienced managers. This is more long term than the mentor system and allows better than a 1:1 ratio. The rookies can move on from this team when they are ready and find their own "proper" team.
As a result of this, all new rookies are automatically given the opportunity to be part of team and exposed to some of the spirit that makes the game great. They can get the support of the experienced managers who can answer their questions and guide them early on (maybe even through a simple team forum). In addition, the 7 rookies are networked together instantly so they can share their early experiences.
Finally, to encourage the experienced players to actually do this and support their rookies - there could be some kind of bonus or reward for any rookies that go on to do well or move on to their own teams.
I don't imagine that my idea is necessarily gold dust - but something along these lines could potentially work.
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Quote ( Chris Field @ March 28th 2015,15:32:28 )
2) I don't know why the site is so damned resistant to this, but *change the damned points system* - if only because I don't understand why someone who finishes conistently 9th ends up behind someone who gets lucky one race and then never sees the top 20 again. I don't care how the points scale at the top, but don't copy one of the poorest aspects of F1 just for the sake of it.
This is pointless. It'll be the same if it was the Top 10 having the points instead of the Top 8! Someone who is constantly 11th ends up behind someone who was lucky to get one Top 10 finish. Makes no difference
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Quote ( Chris Field @ March 28th 2015,15:32:28 ) 1) Separate genuine rookies from people who have been demoted or reset. If you ever got promoted out of Rookie, you'll always go back to Rookie+, away from the actual new players.
True rookies shouldn't ever have to race against "fake" rookies.
Should be very simple to implement.
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If its about money then surely more races is the simple solution? More races= more supporters credits used. On the other side it may put people off having to use more credits.
Maybe let people have DA's? Maybe let family have 2 or 3 members using the same IP? When I first started my son joined too. We both got a warning of Shadow and then my son got banned. Why is it so anal? Ebay say you can only have 1 account but everyone I know has multiple accounts on Ebay.Is it such a bad thing?
Get the rules clearer. I have stopped being a supporter due to a well know issue. One rule for one and one rule for another. With all the swearing here and a ban for saying "cock" Not really worth losing a paying player over, is it?
I think the help Rookies get now is so much better than it used to be. When I first started every reply from a newbie was "Foby" it is a lot more noob friendly IMO.
Just a few thoughts
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When I was in Rookie, which wasn't too long ago at all, these were some issues I encountered.
1. 100 CT warriors zooming ahead of you, just because it's easier to win races with full risks.
2. Only 2 races a week means at least a 3 day gap between two races. Once you are settled with a decent driver, there is absolutely nothing to do in between.
3. Lack of understanding. While the Wiki and Newbie guide are great, they are pretty vague in terms of what each stat means and does. It took me some intense Google hours to understand the game thoroughly. Arguably, not all people who are my age are that patient (I'm 20).
4. FOBY is a big downer for many people. While I got info by asking subtle questions in the chat, or by Googling around to get just enough info to connect the dots, not everyone can do that, and getting the dreaded FOBY reply makes you feel pretty insignificant.
Now, for 1), no solution is needed, since the game beautifully balances it out by making the 100 CT warriors go into negative money, and normal players win the races at the fag end of the season.
2), what I think should be done is that in rookie, there should be a absolutely optional, no-wear, no-income, no-points sprint race everyday, with a different track and weather conditions each time. Say, like a 15-20 lap race that gets finished in 45 minutes - 1 hour.
What it will do is allow Rookies to experiment and explore tracks that are separate from the 17 tracks earmarked for the season, and gather data in a faster way, and quickly bring them up to speed with Amateur level players, which is arguably the base level for the actual game (I consider Rookie to be a sandbox).
3), I dunno what to do about this. On one hand, giving exactly what each stat does on a platter to a Rookie doesn't sound too appealing. But on the other, keeping stuff as it is makes it way too difficult to understand anything in a short time-frame. Maybe club this together with 4), and eliminate FOBY? I mean, don't just say FOBY, and neither just say everything, but maybe give a Rookie "something" to work with.
Someone mentioned a setup Calc previously, and promptly got shot down. While I feel giving a Setup Calc, even a non-perfect one, would be a bit too much, what I suggest is that for each of the 17 tracks for a season, give Rookies a range of values to work with, and then let them explore from there. Like, maybe Wings from 600-900, or Engine from 500-700...something like that. No fuel, no tire data as such.
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Quote ( Chris Field @ March 28th 2015,15:32:28 )
1) Separate genuine rookies from people who have been demoted or reset. If you ever got promoted out of Rookie, you'll always go back to Rookie+, away from the actual new players.
Have a separate group all together?
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@Lee:
Double Accounts isn't a solution at all, just giving more information to people who already know how certain things work.
The forum administration is horrible indeed, it's so restricted. I feel like I always have to be politically correct, I don't feel free to say whatever I want to say.
Would be good to split up "uber"-rookies with relegation/reset rookies. And make it possible for "uber rookies" to have a lot more races or any other way to collect lots of data to analyze. Would also be good to give indications to "uber rookies" regarding fuel/tyres for the races, like "Very High Fuel consumption tracks are known to use up at least xx liters of fuel" and "Hard tyres on this track are known to not last more than xx laps at xx degrees" (no exact laps obviously.. just an indication).
Also the race screen could show a bit more interaction. At this moment races are "boring" (especially for newbies). Doesn't have to be a live race where you see a dot travelling over a track, but at least show the track and your position on the track at the update (#1 on the finish line, #2 a bit behind, #3 somewhere stuck in the corner.. a crash of #8 into the walls).
New registrants seems to get the "old" style "home", give them the new one right away. Other than that, the whole website could use a rehaul in my opinion. It looks a bit boring, and possibly overwhelming with links towards new registrants.
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#76 dikirim Mac 28 2015, 16:27:50 (terakhir disunting Mac 28 2015, 16:32:28 oleh Lee Downing)
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Quote ( Kevin Buis @ March 28th 2015,16:20:58 ) Double Accounts isn't a solution at all, just giving more information to people who already know how certain things work.
Kevin, read into the original post. Its basically all about money. GPRO want/need more money. Is it so wrong to have 2 accounts? What if that player paid for credits for both accounts?
It is so easy to get information so I really do not see any issue. You only have to join a team if you want that sort of information.
I like how the web sites looks. But I agree with you it needs a new look. It looks dated. The game also needs more options. Like other posters have said 2 races a week and nothing much to do in between. Run some cup races in between races? Let teams run a inter team race? Lots of options but this has always been the case.
When people have said these things before they have been shot down by mods. Now the boss asks for help and its all ok :P
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Talking about supporters credits - suggestion! :)
I know you may waste money but when a newbie joins, give them supporter for a couple races so they can experience every part of the game. They will then buy more (hopefully) to access these areas again, getting them more experienced with Race Data, etc and GPRO can generate more money again
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Quote ( Chris Oldham @ March 28th 2015,16:31:49 ) Talking about supporters credits - suggestion! :)
I know you may waste money but when a newbie joins, give them supporter for a couple races so they can experience every part of the game. They will then buy more (hopefully) to access these areas again, getting them more experienced with Race Data, etc and GPRO can generate more money again
This already happens :) Well it used to
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Where does the "money problem" come from; the user retention issue. That's the big problem.
DA's are not going to bring money, I wouldn't pay to gather info/play with a 2nd account. So how would the DA part solve the GPRO troubles? It has no added value.
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To be honest, the only people who are posting suggestions for this are active forum members. I think it may be time for a poll or a message to everyone asking for their opinions. Get a wide range of opinions from active and non-active forum members
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Quote ( Kevin Buis @ March 28th 2015,16:36:31 ) Where does the "money problem" come from; the user retention issue. That's the big problem.
DA's are not going to bring money, I wouldn't pay to gather info/play with a 2nd account. So how would the DA part solve the GPRO troubles? It has no added value.
That is you though Kevin. What if just a small % of players with 2 accounts did? Its all extra income. It would also help fill the empty groups up which in turn would make it more enjoyable. Unless you want to race in a group with 10 others 4 of which dont race.
Or give supporters the option of running 2 cars?
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#82 dikirim Mac 28 2015, 16:46:10 (terakhir disunting Mac 28 2015, 16:51:50 oleh Dániel Vankó)
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Quote ( Vladimir Alexandrov @ March 28th 2015,08:21:05 ) 1) We need translators who can maintain the existing translations, as well as complete translations of the game started by other players (who lost interest or didn't have time to complete them). Only serious candidates are needed for this job, if you are lazy and can't be bothered to put in at least half an hour work per day until the translation is complete, then better leave the job to someone else. Once a translation has been finished, maintaining it requires only translating any new texts which are added to the game when new features are introduced or old ones modified in some way. Translators are needed for the following languages:
Hungarian
I would be pleased if I could help this great game.
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Quote ( Lee Downing @ March 28th 2015,16:43:33 ) What if just a small % of players with 2 accounts did? Its all extra income
How many existing players would stop supporting or stop playing if such a thing happened though? I don't see how allowing DAs would be a good idea at all, looking at the bigger picture. If it was to be embraced, you'd end up with Elite and Master full of such accounts controlled by half as many players, not exactly motivating others to stick around for the long term, IMO.
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Quote ( Lee Downing @ March 28th 2015,16:43:33 ) Quote ( Kevin Buis @ March 28th 2015,16:36:31 )
Where does the "money problem" come from; the user retention issue. That's the big problem.
DA's are not going to bring money, I wouldn't pay to gather info/play with a 2nd account. So how would the DA part solve the GPRO troubles? It has no added value.
That is you though Kevin. What if just a small % of players with 2 accounts did? Its all extra income. It would also help fill the empty groups up which in turn would make it more enjoyable. Unless you want to race in a group with 10 others 4 of which dont race.
Or give supporters the option of running 2 cars?
The DA issue has always appeared a bit strange to me, if you're in a team you effectively have access to 10 lots of race data. Why should it be such a concern if someone wants to pay for 2 accounts?
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ March 28th 2015,16:49:04 ) How many existing players would stop supporting or stop playing if such a thing happened though? I don't see how allowing DAs would be a good idea at all, looking at the bigger picture. If it was to be embraced, you'd end up with Elite and Master full of such accounts controlled by half as many players, not exactly motivating others to stick around for the long term, IMO.
Which is exactly the point we are at now KP
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Quote ( Lee Downing @ March 28th 2015,17:02:13 ) Which is exactly the point we are at now KP
But one already quit the game :(
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Apologies if this has been suggested already, I don't have time to read the whole thread I'm afraid. Should there not be an official GPRO Twitter account made? As far as I know, there isn't currently one unless I've just completely missed it. It'd be a good way to reach a lot of people for no cost. A notification could be made community-wide asking those on Twitter to follow the account and then those same people would be able to retweet the account to their followers. I myself have just over 1000 and I know a fair amount like F1. It's something that should be considered.
If there is one already, just ignore me. :P
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What if we got the possibility to have the topics on the watchlist appearing first on our recent topics page (marking on account settings if we want to) with this enabled on rookies, then the community makes tutorial topics (I haven't played the game for real in a long time, so I'm not sure I can make it), and starters have them watchlisted since they join the game? I mean, if this isn't that hard or time consuming for you
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How many ppl is visiting F1 races here?
Everyone of you pls show of GPRO stuff and spread the word, does not take much. and F1 is a perfect spot and opportunity
make cards or small panflets.
then ofc as numeral ppl said making video or spread the word online in motorforums can be a good idea too.
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Quote ( Vladimir Alexandrov @ March 28th 2015,08:21:05 ) I am making this topic with the main intent to share the background of what's been happening in the past months behind the scenes, as it has a big impact on the game, its development and the path it takes from here onwards. I will also try to explain why the game needs your involvement in its development if it is to survive and get back on the good tracks.
I translated your message to hungarian, and shared it on the hungarian language forum.
Furthermore, I can help the work of a Hungarian-language translator, but unfortunately i don't have time to undertake it alone
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