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Topik: Current situation and GPRO's future |
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Quote ( Gary Partridge @ March 29th 2015,01:05:10 ) 3) OBP'ing and broken cars.
So I put these two issues in one point. And this point really gets my goat. I believe we lose quite a lot of managers because they simply get bored with running this strategy (it's not the only way to advance but it is widely used). I also believe GPRO should be well balanced between money management and racing. This issue alone proves otherwise. How many managers use this strategy because it just makes sense? How many of those managers also think this strategy is related to racing? Running a broken car from start to finish must be one of the most demotivating things I've done, no matter how positive it is for the finances. Arrgghhh, the pain of it!
I'm on the opinion OBP is, at the end of the day, a very bad strategy for you anyways. But, and here is the problem, this kind of strategy hurts the rest of the managers a lot. Just look at Elite. There are currently 8 managers in the retention spots using highly specialized tyres. The average place per race of these managers are:
23.18, 25.45, 28.72, 19.81, 28.63, 25.27, 17.36 and 22.72
Now look at the average place of some managers who are currently demoting:
20.36, 19.09, 22.27, 21.09, 22.27
This is, 5 of these currently demoting managers have been more consistent that 6 of the managers currently retaining, but the OBP tyre strategy is dooming them.
You could say that works both ways, but that wouldn't solve anything: the retainers with specialized tyres are generally doing bad consistency wise, so they are just delaying their demotion via lower race and sponsor income due to the average place destroyed by said tyres. Actually, this is the main reason I'm not a fan of the inclusion of the new tyres, especially Contis: they are a life saver to buy you another season in Elite, but they are probably dooming somebody who is having better results overall.
This is closely related to the economy system of the game. Since money is coming out of thin air, each league you aren't fighting just to have a good pace, but to have a good pace vs. people who don't care the slightest about their economy. In a real situation, no team/industry would just destroy their economies that way. But when money comes out of nothing, you get this situation:
Average money of the managers currently in promotion from some groups:
Pro 1: 25M
Pro 2: 18M
Pro 3: 28M
Pro 4: 62M (which is quite an outliner, because people in this group don't actually want to promote, so they are avoiding points and the group is quite slow)
Pro 5: 51M (same here, only 3 people are trying to promote)
This is with still 6 races to go, so at least 60M more in replacement expenses to keep going until R17 without doing any testing, and probably way more than that if your plan isn't very efficient, so the economy of most promoters won't get any better. People basically kill each other, especially in Pro, where the income isn't high and the expenses aren't too much lower than at Elite or Master. This isn't a problem of the money income itself, because with more money people would just spend more (however, more money partially attenuates the issue, because of the exponential increase of car parts). This is also related to the game mechanics, and it is also a reason you need to go all the way down to amateur to have a better rebuilding plan. What it is interesting is that this could be easily solved by using caps too, in this case about part levels. For example, level 6 at pro. Otherwise this stuff will keep going the same way, people buying parts level 7 and 8 because they can, and in the process they are putting in trouble people who are rebuilding or who are trying to go to the higher leagues in as healthy way as possible.
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Well I think we could see this coming a little bit. As mentioned the gap between new players and the core players is huge. It would be interesting for example to compare say, average race times in Am this season with say just 10 seasons ago. This is also one reason why new seasons keep getting more and more expensive, We are better players now so to keep it interesting it has to get more expensive. On the other end though its brutal for the new players
I also think the FOBY needs to be relaxed for many things. First 10 seasons of GPRO, ok make everyone figure out on there own what everything does. But now some things like practicing, driver skills and facilities should all be out in the open. Other basic things as well
The mobile app idea would be huge, thats how everyone operates nowadays
I also think they need to be more streamlined on their advertising. This game isnt going to appeal to the Candy Crush or Farmville crowd. There probably is a very specific demographic that GPRO will appeal to. Figuring out wingsplits just wont appeal to most people (at least here in the US!)
That being said, putting efforts into better graphics is probably misplaced. While it would be nice most of us dont really need it and it may mislead the newer players into what kind of game this is.
My .02
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I have read through everyones posts, and here are a few things that build upon previously posted ideas and a few of my own:
1) People like to feel like they are being rewarded. Personally, i like how you have to do well in gpro and F1 in order to score "in the points". However, when you spend time and play a game you want to feel like you're doing well. I think increasing those that earn points from the top 8 in every race to the top 10 or top 12 might make those in rookie or ama feel like they are actually accomplishing something. My rookie races only have 12-18 racers in each race, so that way it wouldn't be that difficult for rookies to feel rewarded and this might increase retention rates.
2) Potentially increase the amount of races a week from 2 to 3. I am okay with either option, two races is nice. But it does make it seem like each season is quite long. If the amount of races is increased to 3, you still will have 2 days in between each race, and those who feel like the season is too long, or that it takes too long to promote/prepare each season will become more satisfied. Plus it allows for more data collection per same time period. So that way, rookies/amas will be able to become more prepared without having to wait for a longer period of time, and people might be more willing to stay in rookie in order to collect data and what not if the seasons go by a bit faster.
While increasing the amount of races per week, people will have to use more supporter credits. This might increase the amount of money people are willing to spend per week/month on GPRO, however I'm interested if increasing the amount of races would decrease the amount of people willing to buy supporter credits, since it will become more of a cost on one's monthly expenses. I for one, will still continue to support GPRO and buy supporter credits whether its 2 or 3 races a week.
3) Create a stronger/more well known referral program. Potentially increase the amount of supporter credits you can earn and have the person that was referred a race or few of credits if they complete a full season. This may help advertise the advantages of credits as well as encourage more people to refer and then race a full season when they were referred.
4) Potentially give a few more hints on the data portion of the newbie guide. Im a big fan of the FOBY portion of this game, however you can potentially help new players out by pointing them in the right direction without giving away any kind of formulas or ideas. Everyone's experiences are different with GPRO, and thus there is no one perfect solution to get promoted. However a few more key points i think should be said in the newbie guide in order to encourage retention.
5) If GPRO is in a potential bind when it comes to the money situation, this might be an effective strategy, or even a good longterm strategy to ensure financial success for the game. Decrease the cost of bulk supporter credits. I saw that you get the same amount of credits per season regardless if you buy one seasons worth or if you buy ten. People, i believe, will then be more willing to buy more supporter credits and thus may increase retention rates, as they feel more invested in the game.
I love and enjoy GPRO, and i think admins do a great job. Please do not become discouraged, as many of us are trying to offer constructive criticism (although a few are offering more of destructive criticism... smh).
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I'm doing both spanish and english introduction videos. I have a couple of ideas but i think i need to open a new forum post to be able to correctly coordinate that effort.
I think it's well needed because it's a well established idea and up to this point, everyone has showed support to it.
El Presidente's call to arms it's a do or die guys.. let's stop talking and start making.
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Like Tomás has done with his "Introduction Video" topic, we should do the same for all ideas. If you think you could help with coding languages and that, create a single topic asking for help and get a list of all members who are willing to help. The same would apply for a GPRO app and so on.
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Chris is right guys.
Also, a new forum section called Gpro Revolution or something like that could be made so we can get all those posts in there.
Because they're not suggestions, they are things that must be done.
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I am working on an example of a tutorial and will start a topic on it with my example once it is completed. Unless I could be made topic mod for a tutorial/induction idea, if the community would be ok with me shepherding that aspect of the reconstruction?
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Here's one suggestion: If you want gpro to be known why not offering some of GPRO merchandise to people instead of selling it? Get the people to advertise for you in the streets by wearing GPRO merchandise... I havent read all posts of this topic but has this ever been suggested (not only here, I mean ever suggested)...
Then there's another thing, I dont know if its general but I know several people who just get sick of gpro's random system... Some talkto me and say things like "once my credits run out I wont buy anymore, paying to get randoms just to keep championships competitive?" I have to agree, a lot of people loose motivation because even though they have the best preparation in the group they still dont win... Its impossible to keep everyone happy but it is possible to give everyone the same chance of succeeding, DOWN WITH RANDOM SYSTEM!
Then I just cant skip that the gpro cup system was a total failure... People dont often care about the cup as it is practicly not rewarding and there's no point on pushing to win it...
Just my thoughts...
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Quote ( Derek Koenig @ March 29th 2015,03:37:10 )
2) Potentially increase the amount of races a week from 2 to 3. I am okay with either option, two races is nice. But it does make it seem like each season is quite long. If the amount of races is increased to 3, you still will have 2 days in between each race, and those who feel like the season is too long, or that it takes too long to promote/prepare each season will become more satisfied. Plus it allows for more data collection per same time period. So that way, rookies/amas will be able to become more prepared without having to wait for a longer period of time, and people might be more willing to stay in rookie in order to collect data and what not if the seasons go by a bit faster.
More races per week would pretty much doom every player who actually has a job/family that takes them time. More races may seem like a good fix for the new players, but the old playerbase would quickly dwindle as people just don't have time to qualify for every race.
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Quote ( Josh Clark @ March 29th 2015,14:15:55 ) I am working on an example of a tutorial and will start a topic on it with my example once it is completed.
That's what the introduction video sort of is
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A can have both an intro video and tutorial. No reason to have just one of those
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No, I meant it is sort of the same so bot things can use the same topic
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Quote ( Aki Perätalo @ March 29th 2015,14:18:53 ) More races per week would pretty much doom every player who actually has a job/family that takes them time. More races may seem like a good fix for the new players, but the old playerbase would quickly dwindle as people just don't have time to qualify for every race.
In my opinion, the groups which are not allowed tecnios directors, and still do not have many tasks as superior groups (sponsor, dts, tires ...) would be fine and would help much third race week. It is assumed that in less than five hours can make a career, and would have at least 48 h between races ...
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I've read through all of this and, at the moment, I can't get past the point that an apparently profitable business has had some bad financial advice, spent their profits foolishly and now wants the customers to volunteer to fix the situation.
No doubt I'm over-simplifying and after playing GPRO for 6 years I have a lot of interest in it continuing (& ideas for improvement). But, just at the moment I have a problem with the... I want to say "cheek" or "shamelessness" but it may be too strong... of the opening post.
Just my opinion. Let the "down thumbing" commence.
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I'd just like to comment not on how to bring new players in, but how to have less people leave the game.
For a lot of people, they decide to leave the game when bad things happen. They have been working down a planned path for many seasons then it gets thrown in their face and they have to start over, and many people get tired of it and think "screw it im done".
What bad things?
- Randoms. Yes they are part of the game, but a few of these in a season and someones plan is out of the window and they have to reset back to where they were 6 months ago. Painfully frustrating and a definite game quitter.
I would suggest keeping the random pit stop/start crash, but totally getting rid of random part failure (i.e. Engine from 0% to 99%).
- Sponsors leaving you. Personally i feel that when they are signed, they should be signed by an unbreakable contract allowing people to stay on their plans. This would mean a re-design of the negotiation phase so you cant just lie to get a sponsor, so it would be slightly more difficult to get the sponsor but once you do, its signed for the duration.
Also sponsor negotiation speed should be normalized, not in favor of the fastest managers on the track.
- 90% rule. Ok hitting back on the random side of things here, but i think the 90% rule should be gone so that people can keep to their financial plans, however you should not be allowed to Qualify with any part over 90% wear, to stop managers getting full race money with 99% parts.
These i feel would go a long way to manager retention in the game.
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Quote ( Stuart Gibson @ March 29th 2015,15:29:53 ) - Sponsors leaving you.
- 90% rule.
These two don't really apply to new players and they're the ones most likely to be leaving after a couple of races.
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Quote ( Jed Lilly @ March 29th 2015,15:37:26 ) These two don't really apply to new players
Quote ( Stuart Gibson @ March 29th 2015,15:29:53 ) I'd just like to comment not on how to bring new players in, but how to have less people leave the game
or maybe i should have worded it better, how to keep your long-term players from leaving the game
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#168 dikirim Mac 29 2015, 15:45:32 (terakhir disunting Mac 29 2015, 15:47:04 oleh Mark Wright)
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Quote ( Stuart Gibson @ March 29th 2015,15:29:53 ) 90% rule. Ok hitting back on the random side of things here, but i think the 90% rule should be gone so that people can keep to their financial plans, however you should not be allowed to Qualify with any part over 90% wear, to stop managers getting full race money with 99% parts.
Disagree on the 90% cutoff simply as sometimes I won't expect some parts to go to 99% despite them being at 90%. Likewise other parts in the 80%s would realistically be expected to be at 99% mid race.
I do agree that there should be more done to keep a hold of the long term players that leave.
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Quote ( Jed Lilly @ March 29th 2015,15:37:26 ) - Sponsors leaving you. - 90% rule.
90% rule is the same as in F1.
In motorsport sponsors will leave you if you lye to them,
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Quote ( Alex Nikodem-Wing @ March 29th 2015,15:46:22 )
90% rule is the same as in F1.
90% rules in F1 just means the car is classified as a finisher, teams get paid by Bernie for their presences/points not how many races they finish.
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idk u guys will like my idea or not
In increasing interest of new managers joining this game to play for a long time u can do one thing. U can open GPRO F-1 SCHOOL. this school will only run by the most experience manager in the game or your mentors. following are the functions of this school
1) as u know every new manager don't know how to play this game. some of them spend some time to find the way how to play it but some of them unable to do that and leaves the game so function of gpro F-1 school will be to teach them how to play this game
2) to teach new manager about setup, how to use them and where u will get it.
3) to teach them some important things which will help them to improve their performance in the game
4) to teach them about the CT risk,drivers and many other things they want to know
5) once manager start doing well then he/she will be graduated from the school.
i know most of things are written into game guide but not many of us like to read that game guide. though u can post some links form the game guide to your schools.
this school will be automatically assigned to the new manager as when they join this game, numbers of managers graduated from the school it will depend upon the teachers of the school which will selected by the gpro crew members.
this idea is already applied in the game known as hitwicket. it is an online cricket management game and u will surprised to know its result is 100% and i am sure it will really help new manager to play this game for a long time.
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#172 dikirim Mac 29 2015, 15:53:16 (terakhir disunting Mac 29 2015, 15:54:12 oleh Ken Neihart)
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Quote ( Stuart Gibson @ March 29th 2015,15:29:53 ) - Randoms. Yes they are part of the game, but a few of these in a season and someones plan is out of the window and they have to reset back to where they were 6 months ago. Painfully frustrating and a definite game quitter.
I would suggest keeping the random pit stop/start crash, but totally getting rid of random part failure (i.e. Engine from 0% to 99%).
News Flash!!
Even in real life there is no guarantee a new part will not fail.
Quote ( Stuart Gibson @ March 29th 2015,15:29:53 ) - 90% rule. Ok hitting back on the random side of things here, but i think the 90% rule should be gone so that people can keep to their financial plans, however you should not be allowed to Qualify with any part over 90% wear, to stop managers getting full race money with 99% parts.
So qualing with a 89% part would be OK then?
Sorry, but it sounds like what your wanting is an easy path to the top, should Vlad add more Elite groups so it would accommodate the mad rush for the top? Talk about ppl leaving, I for one would leave in a hart beat if these changes were put into action. The draw of a challenge is what keeps most players here, make it easy and the challenge is gone as well as those like me.
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i can also take responsibility to promote this game on other management games as well as on facebook
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Lots & lots of talk here about making fairly fundamental changes in order to attract (hypothetical) new managers... the banner at the top says over 17,000 managers are online right now... number 1 priority is keeping those who have committed their time & money to the game already.
IMO a visual refresh & more clarity for (& a more helpful attitude towards) newbies is all that's needed.
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Colin really sums up what I feel as well. Tons of suggestions were shot down all the years. So creative people got tired of arguing with naysayers all the time. So some moved on and build there own tools, which many of us surely put more effort into than actually playing the game.
Some things here are a real pita.
- Randoms and early part failures. Much discussed so far. It surely cancels out in the long run. But after everybody got a random, everybodys motivation took a hit.
- Demotion season. Christoph was spot on there. (I personally don't do that, because its boring as hell, but my team mates do)
- Team liveries. The only point worth the supporter credits is the team livery. And then when a team is one supporter short of 6, all the remaining five also have to take the consequences. Not very encouraging to rebuy once it runs out.
- Team forum. As a small team with maybe not even 6 managers in, there is NO way to have a team forum here, requiring more effort to communicate (PMs, external Forum, etc.).
- Official APIs. Shot down multiple times. Then some of us became HTML parsing wizards and again put lots of efforts in it. Now they want us to do an android app. Not going to work without solid new client/server interaction (thinking of AJAX and JSON and the like). Even at fulltime, most likely to take weeks if it should be worth installing. Then again some weeks for the iOS version.
- Race commentary only visible if you pay. Surely Rookies just must love this. Apart from it being useless as well.
- More live representation of either Qs or races. Would need an overhaul to the game engine to move from "time-based" to real "distance-based" simulation. Not an easy task, but fundamental to move into better graphics. If that was an option.
...
And then there are probably 100 more suggestions waiting in the suggestion forums. But seeing how communication after the OP is again a oneway street, I doubt there is much to do.
Don't want to spoil the spirit, but making some videos and spreading the word won't make the game any more fun. It will bring in new people, but not new fun.
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Quote ( Colin Johnston @ March 29th 2015,15:59:06 ) Lots & lots of talk here about making fairly fundamental changes in order to attract (hypothetical) new managers... the banner at the top says over 17,000 managers are online right now... number 1 priority is keeping those who have committed their time & money to the game already.
IMO a visual refresh & more clarity for (& a more helpful attitude towards) newbies is all that's needed.
Agree, there is no real walk through for newbies.
Maybe letting newbies go into a 'Training School' league in which they can do a race every 2 days or just when they fancy?!
This way they could get a little feedback on the races in terms of data but also maybe some in game hints, like:
" you noticed the duration of the Hard tyres you selected, maybe try a softer compound next time"
I dont know just thinking aloud...
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Quote ( Maik Schesch @ March 29th 2015,16:04:54 ) Colin really sums up what I feel as well. Tons of suggestions were shot down all the years. So creative people got tired of arguing with naysayers all the time. So some moved on and build there own tools, which many of us surely put more effort into than actually playing the game.
Yeah... I come to GPRO to do the "work" of playing the game. All the creativity, chat, fun-side of our team actually happens away from here.
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Quote ( Niels Wolters @ March 29th 2015,16:07:41 ) Quote ( Colin Johnston @ March 29th 2015,15:59:06 )
Lots & lots of talk here about making fairly fundamental changes in order to attract (hypothetical) new managers... the banner at the top says over 17,000 managers are online right now... number 1 priority is keeping those who have committed their time & money to the game already.
IMO a visual refresh & more clarity for (& a more helpful attitude towards) newbies is all that's needed.
Agree, there is no real walk through for newbies.
Maybe letting newbies go into a 'Training School' league in which they can do a race every 2 days or just when they fancy?!
This way they could get a little feedback on the races in terms of data but also maybe some in game hints, like:
" you noticed the duration of the Hard tyres you selected, maybe try a softer compound next time"
Or if what Vlad really means is "I want to make some money from newbies" then sell them an "in game purchase" of a fuel & tyres tool that can only be used in Rookie.
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how about allowing rookies to do a free test on each track in there first season or over the first 17 races of there career. At each track they get 100 laps but can use a car with level 1 parts for 25 laps level 2 for 25 laps level 3 for 25 laps and level 4 for 25 laps. This will allow them to see what the difference in car levels do. But not only that it will allow them to record there own data on each track for free giving them a good insight to every aspect of the game. All without messing up there season with unnecessary upgrades and pit stops from genuinely not knowing. It may give then more of an appetite to learn instead of just being thrown into the deepend and quitting because they made.like 20 stops for fuel or running out of cash from silly errors with risks upgrades and staffing. Obviously this would not train there driver.
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I would like to suggest more competive league system. Less farming, more racing.
-20 managers per group.
-2 promote,8 relegate, 10 retain.
-sponsors react more badly on lack of result.
-decrease number of random tech problems.
Also I suggest rookie league different.
-rookie league is just training league.
-you must finish top 3 in rookie league and positive balance to promote to the game.
-after promoting you can't relegate back to rookie by result. Only by spec req or retiring.
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