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Topik: Remove Pip tyre choice from Elite/Master |
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#1 dikirim Ogo 12 2015, 00:26:41
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This is mainly to stop managers just ruining their accounts in the group the season before. Therefore affecting managers who have got long term plans and goals.
There is nothing worse than seeing someone running pips and last in the group every race. You see it every season in Elite. Some in Master.
If there is no tyre choice in Rookie and Amateur for various reason. Lets remove pips choice from Master/Elite.
Peoples thoughts?
I am all for managers who plan in the long term. I personally see managers who use the pip choice as not long term planning to progress in the game.
I know a lot of you will counteract with the argument it is a viable method of planning on so on. However I am merely stating my own case.
I'm very much intrigued to know everyones opinions.
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#2 dikirim Ogo 12 2015, 00:28:19
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Tbh i'd say the top options (Pips, Avonn and Yoko) not being allowed in Elite and Pips in Master would make things a little fairer and perhaps more competitve :)
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Quote ( Michael Keeney @ August 12th 2015,00:26:41 ) There is nothing worse than seeing someone running pips and last in the group every race.
And there is nothing more delightful than seeing a manager retaining Elite with Pips.
That has actually happened, you know
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Quote ( Mikko Heikkinen @ August 12th 2015,00:29:15 )
And there is nothing more delightful than seeing a manager retaining Elite with Pips.
That has actually happened, you know
I knew someone was going to say this ;)
Imagine rocking up to an actual F1 race with tyres made from condoms. That's what it must be like driving with pips if the elite tyres were real.
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#5 dikirim Ogo 12 2015, 00:36:23
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I never understood why those of us who have never been to elite would want to change anything that has to do with elite...If and when we get there then maybe we should have a say but would it not be better for those who are there to decide what is best for them?
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#6 dikirim Ogo 12 2015, 00:39:17
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Shane this is exactly why I want to hear them.
However again you have failed to read the opening post.
Retaining the following season on Pips usually comes after hammering and ruining their accounts in Master or pro which usually affects other managers in the game.
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#7 dikirim Ogo 12 2015, 00:45:49
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Quote ( Michael Keeney @ August 12th 2015,00:26:41 ) Therefore affecting managers who have got long term plans and goals.
I'm absolutely sick of people trying to influence other peoples strategy choices because they don't like it when their long term plans get messed up by someone doing something unusual.
Its the worst reason to limit managerial choices that I can think of in a game about competing with other managers.
If someone has a plan, and it gets messed up by a manager using an unusual/unconventional strategy, then what needs changed is your plan, not the game.
And to be clear, I'm not saying "You, Michael Keeney, needs to change your plan instead of suggesting rule changes." I'm saying "You, EVERY MANAGER WHO HAS EVER COMPLAINED ABOUT THEIR PLANS GETTING RUINED BY ANOTHER MANAGER and then suggested that the game rules be changed to avoid this in the future, need to deeply reconsider your plans instead of attempting to limit other managers options as far as how they manage their account."
And you can quote me on that.
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#8 dikirim Ogo 12 2015, 00:49:03
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Quote ( Mike Brummert @ August 12th 2015,00:45:49 ) You, EVERY MANAGER WHO HAS EVER COMPLAINED ABOUT THEIR PLANS GETTING RUINED BY ANOTHER MANAGER and then suggested that the game rules be changed to avoid this in the future, need to deeply reconsider your plans instead of attempting to limit other managers options as far as how they manage their account.
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#9 dikirim Ogo 12 2015, 00:51:32
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Quote ( Mike Brummert @ August 12th 2015,00:45:49 ) Quote ( Michael Keeney @ August 12th 2015,00:26:41 )
Therefore affecting managers who have got long term plans and goals.
I'm absolutely sick of people trying to influence other peoples strategy choices because they don't like it when their long term plans get messed up by someone doing something unusual.
Its the worst reason to limit managerial choices that I can think of in a game about competing with other managers.
If someone has a plan, and it gets messed up by a manager using an unusual/unconventional strategy, then what needs changed is your plan, not the game.
And to be clear, I'm not saying "You, Michael Keeney, needs to change your plan instead of suggesting rule changes." I'm saying "You, EVERY MANAGER WHO HAS EVER COMPLAINED ABOUT THEIR PLANS GETTING RUINED BY ANOTHER MANAGER and then suggested that the game rules be changed to avoid this in the future, need to deeply reconsider your plans instead of attempting to limit other managers options as far as how they manage their account."
And you can quote me on that.
QFT
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I did not fail to read opening post....
None of us have any control over what another manager does....We can all be crashed by someone at the start..Its a part of the game...You adjust for it if at all possible...If I choose to use pips in pro,master,elite..it would be my choice and I would not care how it affected others...as I'm sure you yourself would not care how it would affect others had you chose to do so
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Quote ( Michael Keeney @ August 12th 2015,00:26:41 ) I personally see managers who use the pip choice as not long term planning to progress in the game.
You're so wrong on that. Example: you got promoted to Elite, but failed to sign reasonable driver and TD. You know you have no more than 5% chances to retain if some miracle happens. People who don't think long term would take expensive tyres, ruin their budgets, and in 95% of cases relegate straight to Ama before standing on their feet. People who do think long term can take pipis, save money, rebuild in Master and fight for another promotion right after that. After your change beeing implemented it would be impossible. The same applies to unprepared promotion to Master. You are in higher division, you're unprepared, you're gonna have hard time.. Do we need another punishment, which would be forcing people to use more expensive tyres, even if they can't afford it and/or they know they are relegating anyway?
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Most of the people that 'ruin' their accounts do it by accident while trying to succeed long term anyway. It's a direct result of the tough pyramid structure that there'll always be people failing in their plans and going down, and with 15 relegations out of 40 there'll be some who recognise before the season begins that they're going down or that it isn't worth staying up. So they minimise their costs to recover faster, it's smart play
But sure, their abject failure and months spent relegating isn't enough punishment on it's own. Let's stick them with a big punitive fine so they learn not to fail in future. Forced Bridgerocks contracts for everyone who starts the season with less than 25mil!
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First of all I have no experience in higher leagues, so I'm more prone to say things that I have no idea than saying things I have a clue.
Well, I think going one step back is actually going two ahead in the future. Sometimes your 'kit' is just not good to fight for being competitive and then planning for the upcoming seasons by saving money is a good and fair option. So, I think keeping the option to choose Pipi's in higher leagues has some sense looking at the management side. It can be competitive even if choosing them will probably end in being relegated to be better (at least in the finances I guess) in the future.
I know it can be a little sad to see someone 'not being competitive' (I'm probably one of them =P) but being in the right place and the right hour pays more than planning for twenty seasons as we can't know how all other people in the league will be at that time. We can only know how we will be and sometimes it's not enough to reach our goals.
Do you think a small team would fight for the title in real f1 if they changed their condom tyres for airplane wings? They still have a bad car (even if it turns to be an bad airplane now) and bad pilots (they used to drive cars - badly - not planes) and so on.
So my answer to this last paragraph of mine is: punishing more people who had not so good results will make them leave the game instead of giving a chance to build/keep where they are at now.
What I think could be changed and that would be better to keep higher level players is to relegate to amateur, so you don't have to come back to rookie with nothing and start from zero.
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Ban ban ban!
Quote ( Michael Keeney @ August 12th 2015,00:26:41 ) This is mainly to stop managers just ruining their accounts in the group the season before. Therefore affecting managers who have got long term plans and goals.
There is nothing worse than seeing someone running low risks and blocking in the group every race. You see it every season in Elite. Some in Master.
If there is no tyre choice in Rookie and Amateur for various reason. Lets remove low risks from Master/Elite.
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Mike appreciate the feedback. Does this mean you would be for the implementation of tyre choices in rookie and Amateur?
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And its always "to help other managers" is the best part for me.
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Quote ( Michael Keeney @ August 12th 2015,01:19:09 ) Mike appreciate the feedback. Does this mean you would be for the implementation of tyre choices in rookie and Amateur?
That's a whole separate issue, and if you're going to act like you don't know the difference, I doubt anyone's dumb enough to buy it.
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I feel like I would definitely be in Elite if it wasn't for these selfish people using tyres, promoting instead of me, then some of them relegate. Some are so selfish they promote from the next level, and relegate from the one above that. At the end of the day there's just a big chain of people playing the game wrong and making it look like they're better than me, while I'm stuck 3 levels below them.
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I knew since the begining of this season that had no chance to stay in master.
but didn´t get pipis but avonn. And I trust it was the best choice for my strat.
However, limitations on tyres choice... leave game as it´s nowadays.
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I'm afraid I'm lost here. How in the world would somebody picking pipis ruin your plans, short or long or anything wise? If anything, I'm happy when people pick pipis. The more the better. That's free qualys and race positions for you.
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Why banning pipis? Why not banning hancock, michellini and bridgerock instead? Doesnt make any sense to me ;) why not banning every tyre except pipirelli?
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Quote ( Edwin Silva @ August 12th 2015,01:30:39 ) I'm afraid I'm lost here. How in the world would somebody picking pipis ruin your plans, short or long or anything wise? If anything, I'm happy when people pick pipis. The more the better. That's free qualys and race positions for you.
I think the issue is more to do with picking expensive tyres to promote THEN going Pips to relegate. The big question is whether or not the person knows at the start of their promotion season that they'll be relegating the following season, and if so, is that a particularly shrewd plan?
Keeney is butt hurt because he missed out on a fourth star. Perhaps he'd have enjoyed the experience more if those that promoted ahead of him at least attempted to stay in Elite the following season...?
Edit: I'd be interested to find out what Keeney intended to do in s39 had he promoted in s38.
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GPRO isn't all about getting promoted. Sometimes people need a way back as well. Relegating on pipis can be a good option for people who's plans didn't work out the first time.
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Quote ( Roland Postle  @ August 12th 2015,01:00:14 ) Most of the people that 'ruin' their accounts do it by accident while trying to succeed long term anyway. It's a direct result of the tough pyramid structure that there'll always be people failing in their plans and going down, and with 15 relegations out of 40 there'll be some who recognise before the season begins that they're going down or that it isn't worth staying up. So they minimise their costs to recover faster, it's smart play
But sure, their abject failure and months spent relegating isn't enough punishment on it's own. Let's stick them with a big punitive fine so they learn not to fail in future. Forced Bridgerocks contracts for everyone who starts the season with less than 25mil!
I agree with Roland on this one .
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Keeney why did you run Pipis in S40 in Pro?
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If you retain in Elite with Pips (or score a point), you know you're not bad :P
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Quote ( Michael Keeney @ August 12th 2015,00:26:41 ) Peoples thoughts?
Disagree Keeno. There are many ways to play the game and one valid strategy is accepting you have reached the end of the line in a particular division (master/elite or wherever) and go for relegation. Being forced to spend extra millions on rubber you won't get the benefit from would be even more soul destroying for those going through the motions of relegation. At least on pips they will have a chance to go down with some money in the bank.
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Quote ( Michael Keeney @ August 12th 2015,00:26:41 ) for various reason. Lets remove pips choice from Master/Elite.
I am all for managers who plan in the long term
Quote ( David Rolleston @ August 12th 2015,10:20:37 ) Quote ( Michael Keeney @ August 12th 2015,00:26:41 )
Peoples thoughts?
Disagree Keeno. There are many ways to play the game and one valid strategy is accepting you have reached the end of the line in a particular division (master/elite or wherever) and go for relegation. Being forced to spend extra millions on rubber you won't get the benefit from would be even more soul destroying for those going through the motions of relegation. At least on pips they will have a chance to go down with some money in the bank.
Same here. Why remove an option that does work well for the long term planning, Michael? Only because of same managers that dont use it in the proper way? It could result in a depletion of options and that is against to the "long term planning" concept itself
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Quote ( Roland Postle @ August 12th 2015,01:00:14 ) But sure, their abject failure and months spent relegating isn't enough punishment on it's own. Let's stick them with a big punitive fine so they learn not to fail in future. Forced Bridgerocks contracts for everyone who starts the season with less than 25mil!
Agreed. Even a short "rebuild" of two seasons isn't that uncommon. If you had to tank a season to relegate, then two seasons in a lower tier, you're going to spend something like 6.5 months to get back to where you were. Piling on a huge financial penalty by forcing them to spend extra money on tires that will do them no good just makes that even longer. Should someone have to spend a year or more of real world time rebuilding? Are they even likely to stay in the game if they have to do so? A failure in planning or execution is its own penalty. There's no need to go pulling on more for no good reason.
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